who are the b'stards?

Paul Smenis

Just had my boardman team carbon ltd edition stolen overnight, what I want too know is who buys these stolen bikes. I would like to think that it is not a true cyclist, without the demand cycles would not be stolen. Who are you?

supersonic

Some may never know it is stolen. Often get shipped to different parts of the country, and sold on.

Canny Jock

In London, Brick Lane is a common place to trade stolen bikes. The people who buy generally know they are stolen. Check www.lfgss.com for stories, in some cases people have spotted their bikes there and even recovered them (after a bit of a fight).

Many will be sold on ebay, gumtree etc.

Anonymous

I once went round a customers house and spotted a Kona King Kahuna in the corner.

Seeing it was a pretty high end 29er I assumed he must be quite in to cycling so I started a conversation, some thing along the lines of "Interesting bike, relay nice" etc.

Turns out he didn't even know what a 29er was (though was grateful for my explanation) and he'd brought it off a mate for £50!!!! and brought it cos he liked the look of it. My heart sank, cos no one in their right mind sells a few grand of bike for £50. I knew straight away it must have been stolen

So sadly it seems nice bikes are just seen as 'any old bike' and sold to non cyclists who couldn't give a dam as long as it has two wheels.

Rada_Rada

It's heartbreaking... It's one thing that I dread, not with bikes but with my guitars. I've gone to the lengths of having some stashed at my parents in case my house gets robbed.

Paul Smenis

The ltd edition Boardman team carbon is one of 500 in the country, number 337 I will hunt you down you f...ing sh.ts

londonbairn

Although very elaborate and probably unlikely for the time being, something similiar to what you can get on Android (WaveSecure) for bikes would be awesome.

A little unit in the frame somewhere, log into the internet and you can easily track your bike. Essentially having a mobile like device with AGPS and mobile internet, with tonnes of battery...

One day

davis

londonbairn wrote:

Although very elaborate and probably unlikely for the time being, something similiar to what you can get on Android (WaveSecure) for bikes would be awesome.

A little unit in the frame somewhere, log into the internet and you can easily track your bike. Essentially having a mobile like device with AGPS and mobile internet, with tonnes of battery...

One day

I've been wondering about this... I use Google Latitude to share my location with my friends; there's no reason it wouldn't work for property and it would be possible to fit phone components inside a bike frame...

Just need to work on that power source.
Actually I was thinking about using it for boat security, plenty of places to hide a phone and there will be enough power about with solar/wind turbines etc.

MadammeMarie

We should have the right to cut their f***ing legs off!!!! :evil: :x

amnezia

Sorry to hear that, people that steal from others really are scum.

Out of interest, how was the bike secured?

Anonymous

londonbairn wrote:

Although very elaborate and probably unlikely for the time being, something similiar to what you can get on Android (WaveSecure) for bikes would be awesome.

A little unit in the frame somewhere, log into the internet and you can easily track your bike. Essentially having a mobile like device with AGPS and mobile internet, with tonnes of battery...

One day

I heard of someone on another forum doing something like this.

I believe they brought a small GPS collar (designed for pets) off ebay for around £60 and attached it under the saddle. Apparently it worked a treat.

Of course it's not the most sophisticated of methods, very easy to spot if your looking for it. But I'm pretty sure someone clever could modify one to fit somewhere better.

davmaggs

The Police has a nice system going a while back in some areas. They were taking highend bikes of the local riffraff who clearly had no idea what they were riding or off those who had borrowed them off a mate, who's details they couldn't recall.

They were free to bring a receipt along to the station to get them back. Strangely enough not many takers.

asprilla

davis wrote:

londonbairn wrote:

Although very elaborate and probably unlikely for the time being, something similiar to what you can get on Android (WaveSecure) for bikes would be awesome.

A little unit in the frame somewhere, log into the internet and you can easily track your bike. Essentially having a mobile like device with AGPS and mobile internet, with tonnes of battery...

One day

I've been wondering about this... I use Google Latitude to share my location with my friends; there's no reason it wouldn't work for property and it would be possible to fit phone components inside a bike frame...

Just need to work on that power source.
Actually I was thinking about using it for boat security, plenty of places to hide a phone and there will be enough power about with solar/wind turbines etc.

You mean a power source apart from the spinning of the BB / cranks / wheels?

Surely it would be fairly easy for a gifted engineer to create a relatively simple charging and storage mechanism; where is Trevor Baylis when you need him?

bails87

davmaggs wrote:

The Police has a nice system going a while back in some areas. They were taking highend bikes of the local riffraff who clearly had no idea what they were riding or off those who had borrowed them off a mate, who's details they couldn't recall.

They were free to bring a receipt along to the station to get them back. Strangely enough not many takers.

On one hand that's good, but on the other, what happens if you've bought a nice bike second hand from the original owner, and then the police confiscate your property and tell you to bring a reciept and you can have it back?

davis

Asprilla wrote:

davis wrote:

londonbairn wrote:

Although very elaborate and probably unlikely for the time being, something similiar to what you can get on Android (WaveSecure) for bikes would be awesome.

A little unit in the frame somewhere, log into the internet and you can easily track your bike. Essentially having a mobile like device with AGPS and mobile internet, with tonnes of battery...

One day

I've been wondering about this... I use Google Latitude to share my location with my friends; there's no reason it wouldn't work for property and it would be possible to fit phone components inside a bike frame...

Just need to work on that power source.
Actually I was thinking about using it for boat security, plenty of places to hide a phone and there will be enough power about with solar/wind turbines etc.

You mean a power source apart from the spinning of the BB / cranks / wheels?

Surely it would be fairly easy for a gifted engineer to create a relatively simple charging and storage mechanism; where is Trevor Baylis when you need him?

Yes, of course you'd get enough power from the cyclist's effort, but then you've got to get that power to the device, which is probably hidden in the seat tube. Do you run a wire in between the seat post and the tube? Do you cut a hole in your bike frame? Plus I think e.g. sticking a dynamo on a bike would be ugly.

The only thing I can come up with that could be self-contained, drop down the seat tube, and "magically" leach power from the bike would be some sort of magnet/coil arrangement that uses Lenz's law to translate motion into electricity.

asprilla

Elastic-trickery isn't my strong suit, but couldn't you set up a simple dynamo within the BB and with the device inside the down to seat tubes it's all internal?

The original clockwork radios used a crank to wind a spring which acted as the storage device for the potential energy which transmitted to a dynamo as it unwound.

I'm sure there would be detailed engineering issues to overcome, but as a concept I don't see how it would be that difficult.

davis

Asprilla wrote:

Elastic-trickery isn't my strong suit, but couldn't you set up a simple dynamo within the BB and with the device inside the down to seat tubes it's all internal?

Actually, a modified version of that might work... Replace the BB spindle with one that's got a magnet mounted (or magnetize your existing one, it's all possible), then drop a coil down the seat post which lays over the BB shell.

As the BB spindle spins, the magnet passes over the coil, generating electricity.

*goes to draw it up.

Of course, most important is the fact this will slow you down...

Edit Possibly need something a little more power-efficient that a mobile running Google Latitude, so maybe something running the APRS service.
Edit 2 Or just glue a magnet to the crank arms... Need to calculate generated power here.

lost_in_thought

I'm sure the police were microchipping bikes for free at stations a few years ago.

Of course, for that to have an effect the police would have to actually recover your bike and read the chip. Likelihood of that happening? Slim to none.

So sorry to hear about your bike being nicked. At least with a certain number out of a limited edition, you have more chance of recovering it than usual. Have you spoken to the police at all?

And I've often thought you could put a GPS sender in the seat tube...

What about a kinetic system like watches use?

asprilla

lost_in_thought wrote:

What about a kinetic system like watches use?

That would be a spring based system, which should be possible. The difficulty would come in accommodating the power you generate when pedlaing without breaking the spring and also, I assume, managing the engagement / disengagement of the spring when it's fully tensioned or needs tensioning again.

tgotb

How about a device located in the seat tube with a mass on a spring surrounded by a coil, which extracts energy from going over bumps in the road? Would still add weight and increase drag (though the mechanism for the latter is subtle) but self-contained, which keeps things simpler.

Any comms experts out there know what the ongoing power requirement is likely to be?

Can anyone quantify the penalty of hiding a transmitter in a carbon/steel/aluminium tube?

lost_in_thought

Asprilla wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

What about a kinetic system like watches use?

That would be a spring based system, which should be possible. The difficulty would come in accommodating the power you generate when pedlaing without breaking the spring and also, I assume, managing the engagement / disengagement of the spring when it's fully tensioned or needs tensioning again.

I honestly have no idea how they work, but with the watches isn't it just a case of shaking the thing? You wouldn't have to hook it up to the pedals, the road vibration would be enough to get it going... then feed it into a battery of some kind maybe?

Apologies if that's utter rubbish... I really have no clue.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia:

A rotating pendulum inside the case is attached to a relatively large gear which meshes with a very small pinion. As the wearer moves, the pendulum turns and spins the pinion at a very high speed - up to 100,000 rpm. This is coupled to a miniature electrical generator which charges a storage device which is a capacitor(s) or a rechargeable battery. A typical full charge will last between two weeks and six months.

davis

My vote goes for the rotating magnet and static coil, because:

a) that's how a motor/dynamo works.
b) there's a fair bit of rotation going on around a bike
c) a spring-based/magnet inside a coil would rattle around a bit, and perhaps make the dirty scumbag think (if indeed they're capable) "oy oy, what's this then?"
d) it'll be silent.

I'll see if I can figure out some power requirements... my guess is "not much", because the device doesn't need to be always on. So perhaps it could store the electricity, power on every 60 minutes to get location and query GSM module (my thinking being you text the phone in your bike saying "you've been nicked!"), then maybe update more frequently depending on available power.

Edit Hmm... a quick noodle around Sparkfun shows GSM modules requiring in the region of 1W while on, and GPS modules truly tiny amounts of power. Perhaps a PIC thing to glue the two together, and that's probably around 2W max, probably running for about 60 seconds to get location and send SMS.
Hmm

asprilla

lost_in_thought wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

What about a kinetic system like watches use?

That would be a spring based system, which should be possible. The difficulty would come in accommodating the power you generate when pedlaing without breaking the spring and also, I assume, managing the engagement / disengagement of the spring when it's fully tensioned or needs tensioning again.

I honestly have no idea how they work, but with the watches isn't it just a case of shaking the thing? You wouldn't have to hook it up to the pedals, the road vibration would be enough to get it going... then feed it into a battery of some kind maybe?

Apologies if that's utter rubbish... I really have no clue.

I was wrong, it's not a spring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_quartz

It's not just vibrations, it needs a certain kind of motion, but essentially it uses a pendulum to wind a large cog which drives a small electric motor.

lost_in_thought

davis wrote:

My vote goes for the rotating magnet and static coil, because:

a) that's how a motor/dynamo works.
b) there's a fair bit of rotation going on around a bike
c) a spring-based/magnet inside a coil would rattle around a bit, and perhaps make the dirty scumbag think (if indeed they're capable) "oy oy, what's this then?"
d) it'll be silent.

I'll see if I can figure out some power requirements... my guess is "not much", because the device doesn't need to be always on. So perhaps it could store the electricity, power on every 60 minutes to get location and query GSM module (my thinking being you text the phone in your bike saying "you've been nicked!"), then maybe update more frequently depending on available power.

Sounds like a brilliant idea... I'll take 3!

Dragon's Den worthy...

EDIT: Microsoft Myphone has a thing where you can track your phone using the GPS doodah inside it, if it's been stolen you let Myphone (an internet-based service) know and it will track your phone automatically at user-defined intervals until the battery runs out.

asprilla

Who needs a full phone:

http://www.zoombak.com/products/pet/

davis

lost_in_thought wrote:

Sounds like a brilliant idea... I'll take 3!

Dragon's Den worthy...

EDIT: Microsoft Myphone has a thing where you can track your phone using the GPS doodah inside it, if it's been stolen you let Myphone (an internet-based service) know and it will track your phone automatically at user-defined intervals until the battery runs out.

Yup, like a simplified version of that, without the battery drain of a screen or a full-blown OS.

And, if I ever did build it, it'd probably end up on instructables as a CC-licensed idea.

lost_in_thought

Asprilla wrote:

Who needs a full phone:

http://www.zoombak.com/products/pet/

Oooh interesting! Only tracks for up to an hour, though. Maybe that's related to battery life...

davmaggs

bails87 wrote:

On one hand that's good, but on the other, what happens if you've bought a nice bike second hand from the original owner, and then the police confiscate your property and tell you to bring a reciept and you can have it back?

On theory yes that is no doubt a problem and the libertarian in me questioned the idea (no doubt I don't have all the specifics). However in the pragmatic world the Police know the local scrots and its something that works on a personal level rather and isn't a scheme to stop obvious roadie enthusiasts who know their gear. It's oieks on estates that have highend machines, no job to pay for it, and no idea what they have.

il_principe

I've had the front wheel (a Halo Aeroage)white track wheel stolen from my bike which was locked in the 'secure' garage under my flat. Who the f*ck nicks one wheel and how did htey get in and out? Weird thing is it was secured with track nuts so the thief must have been prepared. My winter bike was parked next to it but had a cable securing the front wheel, and wasn't touched - depspite being equipped with Fulcrum 1's. Stolen to order or just a well prepared opportunist? Either way I now worry about storing bikes in the garage but can't keep all 5 of them in the flat. Cue bulk d lock purcahse from wiggle!!

Thieving c8nts.

asprilla

davmaggs wrote:

bails87 wrote:

On one hand that's good, but on the other, what happens if you've bought a nice bike second hand from the original owner, and then the police confiscate your property and tell you to bring a reciept and you can have it back?

On theory yes that is no doubt a problem and the libertarian in me questioned the idea (no doubt I don't have all the specifics). However in the pragmatic world the Police know the local scrots and its something that works on a personal level rather and isn't a scheme to stop obvious roadie enthusiasts who know their gear. It's oieks on estates that have highend machines, no job to pay for it, and no idea what they have.

How about a web based portal for doing the tracking; if you own the bike then you change the password and enter your details as the owner. Could also include pictures of the bike and full description.

If you own the bike then only you have access to the portal.

tgotb

davis wrote:

My vote goes for the rotating magnet and static coil, because:

a) that's how a motor/dynamo works.
b) there's a fair bit of rotation going on around a bike
c) a spring-based/magnet inside a coil would rattle around a bit, and perhaps make the dirty scumbag think (if indeed they're capable) "oy oy, what's this then?"
d) it'll be silent.

I'll see if I can figure out some power requirements... my guess is "not much", because the device doesn't need to be always on. So perhaps it could store the electricity, power on every 60 minutes to get location and query GSM module (my thinking being you text the phone in your bike saying "you've been nicked!"), then maybe update more frequently depending on available power.

Edit Hmm... a quick noodle around Sparkfun shows GSM modules requiring in the region of 1W while on, and GPS modules truly tiny amounts of power. Perhaps a PIC thing to glue the two together, and that's probably around 2W max, probably running for about 60 seconds to get location and send SMS.
Hmm

In that case, because GPS only works outside, might be better to keep the GPS on for a longer time, and then only fire up the GSM when you have a position.

Next spanner in the works: where could the GPS antenna go?