Racing at Max HR

swaman

I recently did a sports test that calculated VO2 max, lactate threshold and max Heart Rate. I am 44 years old and was basing my HR zones on max HR of 176 ( 220 - age ) but then my measured max HR was given as 183 so zones are now adjusted. Since then I have been doing some TT's and road races and have seen efforts at 182 HR and last night during a race I hit 184 HR. My first question is is it OK to be hitting max HR during races ?

Also, during the first 20 mins of the race my HR was constantly over 173 / 174 ( about 95% ) , after this a group got away and our group settled down a bit so avg HR was more like 166 ( about 90% ) are these the normal type of figures you expect during a race ?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid, I am new to racing and new to all this scientific training.

Pork Sword

I'm 38 and have a theoretical MHR of 182... I've never been scientifically tested but have achieved MHR figures of 192 often on club runs and average figures of 154-164 during fast-paced club runs. I've never raced, but I don't think you should concern yourself too much with hitting or even over-reaching your theoretical MHR as this is the figure you reached during the day of your test and variables such as increased/decreased fitness, terrain/temperature/atmospheric differences and increased levels of stress/anxiety and adrenaline can lead you to easily getting above your test figures on race day.

Here's a good link to give you a basic idea of racing and training based on heart rates:

http://www.cptips.com/hrmntr.htm

ives.

the sports test said your MHR was 183.
You then did a TT where it hit 184.
What does that tell you about the sports test?

Judging from what you say, I reckon your MHR is a lot higher than 183

swaman

ok, considering that the test was done indoors on a stationary cycle, and that I always have more difficulity getting my HR up when I am indoors on a turbo, I did consider that my max HR might be a little higher than 183, possibly about 185/186. It couldnt be much more than this as I know my max HR when running is 192 and a cycling max HR will always be lower than this.

but my point is if i am hitting max or maintaining nearly max during TT's and races twice a week, is this healthy and OK to do so

for your info other results from the test

anaerobic threshold HR 154 ( 84% of max )
anaerobic threshold Power 213 ( 67% of max )

based on this my threshold zone is 150- 163 and I should be going totally anaerobic over 163 but I can be over 163 for the complete duration of a 10TT which because of a combination of very rolling courses and my lack of speed takes me about 29 or 30 mins.

but you can see a problem that if during the first 20 mins of a road race my HR is hitting over 170 constantly and hitting max every time we hit a steep little hill, then i am in trouble ! i am maxed out while others are not

i reckon if i get an answer here regarding riding a max HR then I should 0pen another thread to find out how i can train and improve to hang in for the duration of a race :-)

celbianchi

In response to the info I think you are after.
I often do 10 mile TT's around 90% of my max HR - I am 39, max HR is 186bpm.
Road races -yes I see similar to yourself that in can be high for long periods of time.
Hasn't done me any lasting harm (i think) over the last 6 or 7 years.
I measure by power now though but keep a track of HR.

amaferanga

Until recently I thought my max cycling HR was 174bpm (I'm 33), which was the HR I reached during lab testing. I've now done 3 races and have reached 180bpm in each and averaged around 160bpm. In races I find that I can maintain 160bpm plus quite easily, where as on the turbo 160bpm is hell. On the occasions I have looked at my Garmin during races while I've been pushing hard I've seen 170bmp plus quite a few times now. I'm averaging about 160bpm for 90 min races so not far off 90% HRmax.

So based on this sample of three you would appear to be normal

I'm another who uses power now - I record HR just because I can really, I don't try to analyse it.

Bronzie

swaman wrote:

i reckon if i get an answer here regarding riding a max HR then I should 0pen another thread to find out how i can train and improve to hang in for the duration of a race :-)

Improving the power you can sustainably generate over longer durations (20-90 mins) is the key to improving your ability to cruise in a race at a comfortable level and then be able to respond to the speed surges etc - the way to do it.............well there's many ways to skin the cat.............but search for "2x20's" for a start

keef66

As mentioned above, don't underestimate the effect of adrenaline during a race; this means that you can frequently record HR well in excess of the max achievable indoors on a turbo.

Don't worry about riding at / exceeding your theoretical max HR either; you already know your heart can go at 192 bpm when running. I suspect you're doing yourself a lot more good than harm.

swaman

great...thanks for all you comments

i reckoned it was ok but couldnt seem to find any info on the good / harm excerising at max HR could do

so i will continue to race regardless and hopefully as i get fitter i will find that time spent at max or higher zones is less during races

i just need to figure out a better plan now, i know my max power at 317 and threshold power at 213 needs some work, as does my weight, i am 13 1/2 stone and 5"10" so could do with losing 1 1/2 stone, i reckon that by losing this weight it would really help me as much as anything else i could do

cheers for your thoughts and advice

amaferanga

swaman wrote:

great...thanks for all you comments

i reckoned it was ok but couldnt seem to find any info on the good / harm excerising at max HR could do

so i will continue to race regardless and hopefully as i get fitter i will find that time spent at max or higher zones is less during races

i just need to figure out a better plan now, i know my max power at 317 and threshold power at 213 needs some work, as does my weight, i am 13 1/2 stone and 5"10" so could do with losing 1 1/2 stone, i reckon that by losing this weight it would really help me as much as anything else i could do

cheers for your thoughts and advice

What do you mean by your max power? I bet my house on you being able to put out more than 317 Watts.

swaman

hi amaferanga

yes of course i can put out more power than this, sorry i am confusing things here i think

the 315 watts was the last power level i was able to sustain during the test - i think that is what it is ?

for any one that likes to deciper figures or want to comment here are the main figures from the test

Age: 44
Height: 179cm
Weight: 86.6 kg
% Fat: 22.4%
VO2 max: 49 ml/kg/min
VO2 max:: 4.2 l/min
Max HR: 183
End Lactate: 13.9 mmol/l
Maximal Power(MAP ): 315w
Anaerobic Threshold HR: 154
Anaerobic Threshold Power: 213w
AT ( % max HR ) : 84%
AT ( % MAP ): 67%

So, based on this from what I have been told I am a work in progress ! I need to both lose weight and increase power. I have been trying to do some more longer rides, up to 70 miles at lower intensity once a week to help with weight loss, a hard ride on a hilly route really attacking the hills, a recovery ride of about an hour outside or 30 mins on a turbo, but the other rides i had been doing i have now replaced with a weekly 10 m TT and a club race of about 25 miles. Should I cut of these races for a while and do some interval rides ? Sorry, I am now going off subject but any comments appreciated.

i should say that i just started cycling in January but had a lot of time off the bike since due to bad weather also
i have not exercise for about 10 years previous to this when i used to play football
oh....and i stopped smoking in the new year :-)

ives.

It couldnt be much more than this as I know my max HR when running is 192 and a cycling max HR will always be lower than this

This isn't necassarily true.
Often people have higher MHR when cycling than running

Bronzie

swaman wrote:

Should I cut of these races for a while and do some interval rides?

All of the above (apart from the recovery ride) will help improve your sustainable power. The TT is probably the single most effective session however, so definitely don't drop that.

Long time trial type intervals (say 20 min) with a short (5 min) recovery in between are also very effective. Pace them at a level where the 1st effort feels fairly comfortable, and the second will feel a bit of an effort.

swaman

ok, so it looks like i am doing things that will help me improve, and the two races each week will help bring me on so that is good news

i think the big factor that is holding me back is my weight, i can hang in with the faster guys on the level but after two or three hills i start to struggle and a few more hills i am blown away

yet since i started cycling i have not lost any weight, in fact i initially put on 5 lbs and cant get it off

i have stopped eating crisps and chocolate and try to eat smaller portions of everything, but other than this have not really dieted as i feel hungry all the time now

but i would have thought that doing 150 to 180 miles a week would have meant the weight would have dropped off, but its not happening

i do feel i am getting stronger and faster with the rides i am doing so will stick with it and hope eventually to be able to hang in till the end of the races, will have to research more about weight loss and make an extra effort

keef66

Don't focus on weight loss. You are almost certainly shedding fat, but at the same time building muscle which is denser. What you look like in the mirror, or how your clothes fit you, are better indicators.

For a bloke waist measurement is a good way to track reduction in body fat, hips are a better measurement for women.

nolf

ives. wrote:

It couldnt be much more than this as I know my max HR when running is 192 and a cycling max HR will always be lower than this

This isn't necassarily true.
Often people have higher MHR when cycling than running

Isn't a maximum heart rate, a maximum heart rate?

I don't think you can have different ones for different sports. By definition a MaxHR is the maximum number of beats per minute that your heart can do, the maximum capacity of your heart to move blood.

Different sports won't change this, unless you somehow go through a physiological change when sitting on a saddle...

I wouldn't worry about maxing out while racing either, if you can stick with the race, do it! I would almost advise against racing with a HR monitor, just because holding wheels is far more important than staying in the right zones.

amaferanga

nolf wrote:

ives. wrote:

It couldnt be much more than this as I know my max HR when running is 192 and a cycling max HR will always be lower than this

This isn't necassarily true.
Often people have higher MHR when cycling than running

Isn't a maximum heart rate, a maximum heart rate?

I don't think you can have different ones for different sports. By definition a MaxHR is the maximum number of beats per minute that your heart can do, the maximum capacity of your heart to move blood.

Different sports won't change this, unless you somehow go through a physiological change when sitting on a saddle...

I wouldn't worry about maxing out while racing either, if you can stick with the race, do it! I would almost advise against racing with a HR monitor, just because holding wheels is far more important than staying in the right zones.

I think the point was that some people can reach a higher HR running that they can cycling or vice versa.

gllewellyn

swaman wrote:

yet since i started cycling i have not lost any weight

I'm exactly the same - my weight fluctuates by about 1lb, but so far hasn't decreased...
Yet my gut is shrinking, and I can feel my legs are getting bigger so I figure the fat is being replaced by muscle...

I guess as long as you're going faster for longer, it's all good! :-)

ut_och_cykla

nolf wrote:

ives. wrote:

It couldnt be much more than this as I know my max HR when running is 192 and a cycling max HR will always be lower than this

This isn't necassarily true.
Often people have higher MHR when cycling than running

Isn't a maximum heart rate, a maximum heart rate?

I don't think you can have different ones for different sports. By definition a MaxHR is the maximum number of beats per minute that your heart can do, the maximum capacity of your heart to move blood.

Different sports won't change this, unless you somehow go through a physiological change when sitting on a saddle...

I wouldn't worry about maxing out while racing either, if you can stick with the race, do it! I would almost advise against racing with a HR monitor, just because holding wheels is far more important than staying in the right zones.

MAx heart rate can be sports dependent - but doesnt have to be. Some people say its because diffrent sports use different mix of big muscles eg cycling versus crawl swimming, but personally I think it is due to relationship to horizontal - upright(running) tends to be higher than horisontal (swimming ) and cycling falls somewhere in between . them. of course if most of your training is one sport you might be less able to get your pulse up to max in others.

jibberjim

nolf wrote:

Different sports won't change this, unless you somehow go through a physiological change when sitting on a saddle...

No, sports can give rise to a different max heart rate, HR is basically a measure of oxygen demand, and you could be limited by oxygen demand on the supply side - your true max HR, or you could be limited on the consumption side - a sport specific max HR.

If you consider the sport of bicep curling - how many bicep curls can you do in 5 minutes. You're almost guaranteed not to hit the same max HR there, as you can cross country skiing as you're using a tiny amount of muscle to consume the oxygen compared with what you can deliver.

Your highest max HR will likely be in your most developed sport.