Headwinds and hills...

Stick8267

I've heard it said that riding in to headwinds is good for developing your ability to climb. While I can see the logic of riding in to resistance I wonder about the validity of this.

Do people think a headwind can equate to a hill and if so what strength of wind equals what gradient of hill?

Having finished a hard day on my feet at work the headwind riding home tonight felt VERY real!

Toks

Stick8267 wrote:

I've heard it said that riding in to headwinds is good for developing your ability to climb. While I can see the logic of riding in to resistance I wonder about the validity of this.

Do people think a headwind can equate to a hill and if so what strength of wind equals what gradient of hill?

Having finished a hard day on my feet at work the headwind riding home tonight felt VERY real!

If you had a powermeter you'd see the numbers start to rise when the road heads skywards and this would also occur (to varying degrees) if you rode into a headwind.

meanredspider

I think there are differences but clearly the work required for one will help the other. I don't know how the two relate exactly - what I do know is that a hill I'd normally descend at 40mph I get as slow as 32mph in a good headwind. Power required through air is the square of speed just to complicate things so it depends how fast you're riding into the wind.

oldwelshman

40mph headwind, 20% gradient !!

SteveR_100Milers

oldwelshman wrote:

40mph headwind, 20% gradient !!

That can't be right!

I couldnt ride into a 40mph headwind, it's simply too fast (it would be close to trying to ride at 40 mph on a flat windless surface), yet I can climb a 20% gradient!

I reckon more like 20% = 30-32mph headwind.....?

kettrinboy

hills dont last for days but a strong headwind can, i,d rather spend a windless day in the hills than a flat ride into 30-40 mph headwinds, at least in the hills you get some relief when you go down the other side, on an 80 mile ride into the fens last year i spent 30miles into a 20-25 mph headwind and it killed me, theres no shelter at all from the wind and the straight roads stretch into the distance for miles , i thought because it was dead flat it would be easy and it wasnt, i only just made it home without bonking on that ride.

Alex_Simmons/RST

One cannot compare as it depends on your aerodynamics and mass.

freehub

Headwinds = horrible
Hills = fun.

That's the diffo between them :P

oldwelshman

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

40mph headwind, 20% gradient !!

That can't be right!

I couldnt ride into a 40mph headwind, it's simply too fast (it would be close to trying to ride at 40 mph on a flat windless surface), yet I can climb a 20% gradient!

I reckon more like 20% = 30-32mph headwind.....?

I was making a silly point Steve thought you would have known me by now
I did get blown to a standstill on Pnederyn two years ago and had to stop and I never stopped on a climb yet so guess that was over 33% equivalent Dont know wind speed that day but was bloody awful 7 miles

meanredspider

I've been lucky so far - only had to get off on the Kessock bridge due to a 35mph crosswind - I wasn't worried about falling off the bridge (though it's a theoretical possibility) it was the way the bike swerved in the lee of the heavy trucks - swerving towards 40T of metal moving 50mph (I'd rather take my chance into the sea)

SteveR_100Milers

oldwelshman wrote:

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

40mph headwind, 20% gradient !!

That can't be right!

I couldnt ride into a 40mph headwind, it's simply too fast (it would be close to trying to ride at 40 mph on a flat windless surface), yet I can climb a 20% gradient!

I reckon more like 20% = 30-32mph headwind.....?

I was making a silly point Steve thought you would have known me by now
I did get blown to a standstill on Pnederyn two years ago and had to stop and I never stopped on a climb yet so guess that was over 33% equivalent Dont know wind speed that day but was bloody awful 7 miles

So was I! you know damn well I couldn't climb a 20% gradient

inseine

40mph is gale force, that's pretty har to ride in. I know I've been down to 10mph on the flat into super strong winds. Mind you 20% is a pretty slow climb.




FORCE EQUIVALENT SPEED DESCRIPTION SPECIFICATIONS FOR USE ON LAND
10 m above ground
miles/hour knots
0 0-1 0-1 Calm Calm; smoke rises verticall.
1 1-3 1-3 Light air Direction of wind shown by
smoke drift, but not by wind
vanes.
2 4-7 4-6 Light Breeze Wind felt on face; leaves
rustle; ordinary vanes moved
by wind.
3 8-12 7-10 Gentle Breeze Leaves and small twigs in
constant motion; wind extends
light flag.
4 13-18 11-16 Moderate Breeze Raises dust and loose paper;
small branches are moved.
5 19-24 17-21 Fresh Breeze Small trees in leaf begin to
sway; crested wavelets form on
inland waters.
6 25-31 22-27 Strong Breeze Large branches in motion;
whistling heard in telegraph
wires; umbrellas used with
difficulty.
7 32-38 28-33 Near Gale Whole trees in motion;
inconvenience felt when walking
against the wind.
8 39-46 34-40 Gale Breaks twigs off trees;
generally impedes progress.
9 47-54 41-47 Severe Gale Slight structural damage occurs
(chimney-pots and slates removed).
10 55-63 48-55 Storm Seldom experienced inland; trees
uprooted; considerable structural
damage occurs.
11 64-72 56-63 Violent Storm Very rarely experienced;
accompanied by wide-spread damage.
12 73-83 64-71 Hurricane --

bompington

You were looky, oop 'ere you can end up going backwards in a really strong headwind

meanredspider

bompington wrote:

You were looky, oop 'ere you can end up going backwards in a really strong headwind

Southern Softy - up HERE we go everywhere backwards...

Team Banana Spokesman

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

One cannot compare as it depends on your aerodynamics and mass.

this.

also

- increased temperature on a hill / freeze to death in a headwind
- different joint angles on the flat compared to a hill (usually)
- out of the saddle makes you faster on the climb / slower in a headwind

bobtbuilder

meanredspider wrote:

bompington wrote:

You were looky, oop 'ere you can end up going backwards in a really strong headwind

Southern Softy - up HERE we go everywhere backwards...

No, no, no - up there you are all backwards.

Mettan

Even riding into a 10 mph headwind can make that part of a ride miserable.