BMW, Audi, Lexus, VW or Seat?

Gav888

All sorts of things get posted in here, so I thought I would get some car advise if thats ok?

Im planning on getting one of the below, but im not sure which as each has its own plus points and minus points. All are diesel as my mileage for work is increasing and ive got about £12,000 for a 3 or 4 year old car...

Audi A4 2.0 TDI S Line 140 or 170
Golf GT TDI Sport 140 or 170
Seat Leon FR
BMW 320d M Sport
Lexus IS220d Sport

Does anyone own one of these, what are they like to drive and how is the mpg in the real world?

hopper1

Got an Audi Avant S-Line Quattro...
Love it tio bits!
It's petrol, so can't help you with fuel economy, etc.
But, as far as build & quality go... I wouldn't even consider any of your choices, against the Audi.
We've enjoyed it (the car! :roll: ), for almost 3 years, now.

wicked

I have the A3 tdi sport (140) and its a superb car, I initially considered the golf but the audi is far better made. Audi's are the best made car there is.

Gav888

I have driven te Audi before I thought it was a lovely car, but I would like to test drive the others to be sure its the best choice, reading all the reviews I can find the BMW wins each time...

crown_jewel

I have had 2 Audis and 3 BMWs over the years. Currently have an A6 and a 335xi. I went with Audi originally for the all-wheel drive, which is somewhat useful here in Minnesota. Now that BMW have all-wheel drive, I have gone back. I like Audis okay, but they seem not to hold up over time. Okay for 2-3 years, then something's always wrong. I never have had a problem with a BMW and I love they way they drive. But they are all good cars.

unixnerd

I've had a BMW website for longer than BMW have had one :-) www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmw.html

Beware of the diesels, they have a serious design flaw: http://www.swirlflaps.co.uk/
If you buy one be sure to have the swirl flaps removed! I know loads of folk who've killed the whole engine :-(

passout

Seat - it's the cheapest and they are all just cars at the end of the day.

norfolkandgood

I've got a 2004 BMW 320d msport and it's a great car. Had mine remapped and now has more torque than an M3 but hasn't affected the economy. I removed the flaps a year ago. It cost me about £25 for new seals. If you are close by I could give you a test drive as I am on the Norfolk/Suffolk border. Done 40,000 miles with No problems so far.

SteveR_100Milers

Alfa! You know you really want to!

onlyonearrow

I've very recently changed from a 2006 Saab 9-3 Vector Sport 1.9TiD (150bhp) to an under year old Seat Leon 2.0TDI Sport (140bhp). So not quite an FR, but similar to the Golf GT-D 140 vs 170bhp choice

I'd looked at Golfs and would probably agree that the Golf has an edge on interior quality, but it's not as wide a gap as it maybe once was and tends to be minor touches, like softer lining in door pockets. However, no matter how many times I've considered buying a Golf (several times in the past) after an enjoyable test drive, when standing back and looking at the car - it just doesn't excite. The Leon is just a sharper looking car.

I've looked at Audi A3 and A4 in past, and always struggled with the specification versus price. Also the A3 just seems a bit long in the tooth.

Comparing the Leon to my Saab, the interior build is more solid in the Leon. Different materials, so there's elements on the Saab that were nicer - but the Leon is markedly better. One thing I have noticed with the Leon, is the (sports) suspension is a lot firmer (and this is mentioned in reviews). However the I would rate the comfort of the seats in the Leon as good as those in the Saab - which are among the best.

As far as mpg. Still early days with the Leon, but I've been averaging 50-52mpg, based over mixture of A-road, town and dual carriage way. The Saab on similar duty was regularly returning similar mpg.

As with bikes, no substitute for getting out and test driving.


I like the economy and torque of the diesels, but I still miss my petrol Saab 9-3 2.0 litre turbo - especially as it was quite understated in appearance, so surprised a few boy racers! Hopefully Spyker will succeed in getting Saab back from the dark days caused by GM. :evil:

andy162

Audi A4 for me. I had a Avant a few years back. No problems at all. Long service intervals, good economy & a good drive. Mine was an s-line in black. Looked the part.

Mrs Andy works for BMW, over the years we've had most of the range at some point. Usually 3/5 series diesels. 320d is a strong package but for my money I'd take the Audi. You'll get plenty of Seat for Audi/BMW money though.

rake

i dont think diesels any cheaper untill your in the used market. more expensive to buy and service. a couple of thousand pounds of extra buying costs will take a hell of a long time to save back. 40mpg v 50 mpg = about £10k of petrol (roughly 80k miles) to save £2k buying price before youve broken even and started saving.

m@tty123

Leon FR my mate has one and they are amazing cars, i would be suprised if it isnt the cheapest of the cars you are looking at its pretty nippy and has good handling, i had a drive of his and loved it, if you havent already test driven one do it and you will love it too

borisvanhalen

leon / golf / audi are all the same car... every electrical and mechanical part on my leon has an audi label on it 8)

daviesee

If you actually enjoy driving as a pleasure in itself then you have to go for test drives.
The last 2 times I have been looking to buy, an Audi has been the obvious choice, on paper.
Test drive later..........
Blah..........boring, no feel and engine/front heavy.

If you don't care about driving, go for the cheapest. They are all decent cars these days.

clarkie28

Have you thought about an Alfa 159? Gorgeous looking car that will make you stand out from the rest. Take a little more looking after than run of the mill cars, but just looks alone are worth it!

Also, try a Ford. Fiesta may be a little small for your needs, but what about a Focus or a Mondeo. I know they may be a little common, but they are superb 'drivers' cars and are known to be amongst the best handling cars available.

Ive got a Fiesta and after driving quite a few different cars, they all seem dull in comparison to drive!

Just my 2p

Brakeless

Ive got a Fiesta and after driving quite a few different cars, they all seem dull in comparison to drive!

Location = Essex LOL

twotyred

As Davie says if you enjoy driving, and from your selection of S-line and M sport models it seems you do, there will be only one winner when you've driven them all.

The Audi in S-line trim drives like a well sorted family saloon. However the BMW 320D is a superior driving experience in every way even in standard spec so in M sport spec the difference will be even larger. When I drove the A4 and 320D back to back the decision was a no brainer. 4 years later and I've been very happy with my 320D Touring. Only problem has been an alternator bearing needing replaced. Real world mileage from driving it hard on mainly A and B roads is 41mpg. What would I change about it? The headlights are a bit weak and the run-flat tyres restrict your tyre choice but that's about it.

Scrumple

12k for a 3 yr old bmw 320d m sport trim
???

no chance.....

I have one and the boots are tiny. You wont get a bike in, so make sure the seats fold as it is an optional, coslty extra...

SteveR_100Milers

borisvanhalen wrote:

leon / golf / audi are all the same car... every electrical and mechanical part on my leon has an audi label on it 8)

Very true. circa 50-60% of VAG products use common parts, the biggest differentiation is in the visual / contact points. Personally I'd get a Skoda superb if you wanted a large car/estate, or the Octavia vRS if you wanted some thrils, but that's assuming I wanted a VAG car in the first place. The new Alfa Guilietta is the car I have been waiting for for the last 20 odd years after the demise of my beloved Alfasud. Nice though the 159 is it's still too anodyne to be a true Alfa, though still a lot more interesting than many of its predictable competitors.

If you want cheap motoring, then frankly I reckon its hard to beat a 12 month old Focus 1.6TDCi. Better real world economy than any Hybrid, servicing that a child could do, and is therefore cheap, parts literally everywhere. Not 'quick' in any noirmal benchmark comparison of course, but the chassis means that you don't have to slow that much for the twistys so real world journey times are better than you might expect.

Gav888

Thanks for the posts guys, made some interesting reading...

At present I have an Octavia vRS and before that I had a BMW Alpina B3, they are great to drive, the BMW more so than the Octavia, and I was actually considering the same cars 4 or 5 years ago when I bought the Octavia, back then I wanted something newer and lower mileage but still wanted something that was fun to drive, age and mileage were my main concerns and the Octavia had more toys plus it was a year or 2 newer than the other cars at the time with lower mileage, this time round im in the same situation but the newer models. LOL

I think the BMW and Audi are my hearts choice, the others are my head and my head won last time.

At the end of the day though I need to test drive all of them and see.

Not considered Ford, as I now stick with German or Japanese having had loads of issues with Vauxhall and Ford's in the past but hardly any issues with the German cars ive owned.

Are there any common issues with these cars as I wasnt aware of the swirlflap issue with the BMW's...

hopper1

Gav888, follow your heart... You'll never get over this Audi/BMW thing until you have bought what you want, not what you need.
You bought the Octavia last time (followed your head), now your back in the same position...

Just get the Audi!
I believe the R10 has their best diesel engine :shock:

Gav888

LOL thanks Hopper1, R10 engine in a A4, please.....

Dazza2280

Really depends what age you are, and how you want to be percieved.

Don't buy the Seat!! I know its part of the VAG group but its not a volkswagen, not by a long way, it might share some of the same parts, but the quality just isn't the same inside, and when you show it off, you're guaranteed to use the line, "its basically a golf, but much cheaper" ITS NOT!!!

Audi's a solid car but too many reps have turned it into the new mondeo, no one will let you out from a side junction if you're in one of those.

Much the same with the Lexus, good car, but take it for a test drive, its like a Vauxhall with a fancy suit, it never feels connected to the road, ever, where other company's are making cars, Lexus seem to be making White Goods.

Go for either the Golf or the BMW, depending on whether you like the rear wheel drive of the BMW or not, test drive them both, they're both quality products.

Given the money you've got to spend, after you've tested both of those, walk into a Ford dealer and test drive the new Mondeo, its not just the workhorse it used to be, you'll be surprised!!

Dazza2280

hopper1 wrote:

Gav888,
Just get the Audi!
I believe the R10 has their best diesel engine :shock:

R10!!!! Audi built a new car recently to replace the R8 V10?????? :roll:

carrock

norfolkandgood wrote:

I've got a 2004 BMW 320d msport and it's a great car. Had mine remapped and now has more torque than an M3 but hasn't affected the economy. I removed the flaps a year ago. It cost me about £25 for new seals. If you are close by I could give you a test drive as I am on the Norfolk/Suffolk border. Done 40,000 miles with No problems so far.

That's impressive- particularly as the m sport range wasn't launched until 2006....

z0rT10ok

I've got a BMW 320CD Sport and it's not great, Very nice looking car and to be honest it's never let me down but it's extremely uncomfortable if you're doing any mileage in it, both in the front seats and in the rear. I wouldn't buy one again.

meanredspider

Given this range of cars, I can't help you! All very dull. Audi's have the most wooden steering of any car I've ever driven - even my brother's S8 was ruined (by his own admission) by the steering. Not driven one yet that I've liked. The BMW is a possibility - again ruined by their insistence on horrible run-flat tyres.

Good luck....

crumbschief

£12000,wow,most would waste it but i'd spend it on beer,cold remedies,bike kit,a bigger server for Bikely,a Cake Stop ride out with Flasheart and a photo shoot with some Lycra short clad ladies.

SteveR_100Milers

Gav888 wrote:

Thanks for the posts guys, made some interesting reading...

At present I have an Octavia vRS and before that I had a BMW Alpina B3, they are great to drive, the BMW more so than the Octavia, and I was actually considering the same cars 4 or 5 years ago when I bought the Octavia, back then I wanted something newer and lower mileage but still wanted something that was fun to drive, age and mileage were my main concerns and the Octavia had more toys plus it was a year or 2 newer than the other cars at the time with lower mileage, this time round im in the same situation but the newer models. LOL

I think the BMW and Audi are my hearts choice, the others are my head and my head won last time.

At the end of the day though I need to test drive all of them and see.

Not considered Ford, as I now stick with German or Japanese having had loads of issues with Vauxhall and Ford's in the past but hardly any issues with the German cars ive owned.

Are there any common issues with these cars as I wasnt aware of the swirlflap issue with the BMW's...

I had an Accord 2.4 for 3 years until March 2009. I covered 109K miles in that time, moslty motorway / autobahn. It turned out to be the one of the most unreliable cars long term that I have owned, even the 'sud. Clutch thrust bearing failed, cat failed the repair bills were enormous.
Colleague had an '04 530d estate for 2 years, spent about 20 days in the dealer being repaired. He got sick of it in the end as it was becoming a money drain. Yes a nice car, but ultimately just a fancy "suit". I'm a real car enthusiast, I have worked in the auto industry for 20+ years, but over the years have learnt that expensive cars are not the route to happiness, and turn out to be a huge money drain. Mundano diesel estate for commuting and business, and a Lotus Exige for the weekend! (or maybe a renovated Alfasud...... 8) )

hopper1

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

(or maybe a renovated Alfasud...... )

What could you renovate?... They all fell apart years ago!