Returning cyclist - max HR question

Hibbs

I returned to cycling last year after about 13 years and since then I've been steadily racking up the miles in mainly L2, and recently moving into L3 tempo intervals. I've started to incorporate some form sprints but nothing too strenuous, easing my body back into higher intensity work, but I'm a bit concerned about my max HR.

I'm 31, and would hope for a MHR of around 190 as a very basic estimate, but judging by my HR during SST power work it's about 180, if that. This seems a bit low for my age, will this gradually increase as I ease myself back into higher intensity work, or am I stuck with a low MHR now? I plan to get back into racing late this season or next season.

Thanks for any advice.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Hibbs wrote:

I'm 31, and would hope for a MHR of around 190 as a very basic estimate, but judging by my HR during SST power work it's about 180, if that.

Your HRmax is what it is. High or low relative to population averages is irrelevant and not an indication of fitness nor ability.

Only way to know what you HR max is, is to ride in a way to elicit a maximal HR response, such as the test described here:
http://www.cyclecoach.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=145

or other rides involving a similarly hard effort.

Hibbs

Thanks Alex.

Is it safe to do a max HR effort now then? I was avoiding maximal efforts for a while until I'd worked my way up to them for fear of doing damage to an "untrained" heart, with the heart being a muscle and all that I was thinking along similar lines to the usual muscles - build up a base and then gradually increase intensity - or does it not work like that?

p.s. will probably be contacting RST to start coaching later this year with a view to hitting the RR scene "full gas" next season.

Coznz

Personally when I was doing triathlons I found that my cycling HR was always about 10bpm lower than my running HR for the same effort. This makes sense because in cycling your using fewer muscles than in running and your body weight is supported so there is less demand on your heart. Particularly if you are a well conditioned runner then the demands on your heart will be realitively less than what your heart is used to. I also think that just focusing on max HR may not be a the best method to base determination of "zones" on. The real goal is to find out where the inflexion point is between aerobic and anaerobic states. The best methods are obviously a blood lactate test and/or gas analysis tests while cycling. This will show you the points when levels lactate and CO2 change. Obviously this is expensive so maybe you would do this once a year. Without a blood lactate test or gas analysis as a rough guide, you can tell when you reach the inflexion point is when your breathing rate changes. .The optimum "zone" for intervals also depends on the purpose of your intervals. If you aiming to develop power, speed and acceleratiopn over short distances then short sprints of 20-25 seconds at max power with equal time rest repeated 10-15 times should be your goal. In this case HR does not really matter, just get stuck in and do it at 100% effort. On the other hand if the purpose of your intervals is to develop aerobic capacity and lactate tolerance for endurance then 5 intervals of 4-5 minutes above lacate threshold with equal rest will give the best results.This should not be at maximal effort but at about 90%

Hibbs

Thanks Coznz. The HR question was more to do with me being concerned with overstressing my heart too early and my general health than calculating zones, as I use power for that anyway. With reference to lactace/CO2 testing, if this was being done once a year when would be the best time to do it? At the end of the base phase to establish the zones for subsequent interval training, or after some lactate clearance training has been done?

Also, is lactate/gas testing still necessary when working with power, or is the Coggan FTP test sufficient to calculate the zones?

Alex_Simmons/RST

Hibbs wrote:

Thanks Alex.

Is it safe to do a max HR effort now then? I was avoiding maximal efforts for a while until I'd worked my way up to them for fear of doing damage to an "untrained" heart, with the heart being a muscle and all that I was thinking along similar lines to the usual muscles - build up a base and then gradually increase intensity - or does it not work like that?

p.s. will probably be contacting RST to start coaching later this year with a view to hitting the RR scene "full gas" next season.

Well the usual caveats apply when undertaking maximal efforts, and are referred to in the item I linked.

If you are healthy, have been training for a while, no cardiac issues, non smoker etc etc, then a maximal effort is certainly do-able. If you ever expect to race then it'll happen at some stage anyway.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Coznz wrote:

I also think that just focusing on max HR may not be a the best method to base determination of "zones" on. The real goal is to find out where the inflexion point is between aerobic and anaerobic states. The best methods are obviously a blood lactate test and/or gas analysis tests while cycling. This will show you the points when levels lactate and CO2 change.

Such an inflexion point is a blood lactate marker, not a heart rate one. There is no one HR at such a point, just as there is no one point at which you move from aerobic to anaerobic.

Coznz wrote:

Obviously this is expensive so maybe you would do this once a year.

Which is pretty unhelpful since these blood lactate markers can change quite a bit with just six weeks of training.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Hibbs wrote:

Thanks Coznz. The HR question was more to do with me being concerned with overstressing my heart too early and my general health than calculating zones, as I use power for that anyway. With reference to lactace/CO2 testing, if this was being done once a year when would be the best time to do it? At the end of the base phase to establish the zones for subsequent interval training, or after some lactate clearance training has been done?

Also, is lactate/gas testing still necessary when working with power, or is the Coggan FTP test sufficient to calculate the zones?

With a power meter, blood lactate testing is largely redundant.

With a power meter, HR is at best redundant, at worst, misleading.

Far more practical to base training on actual performance tests with the power meter. In that way you can adjust training constantly to account for the evolution of your fitness.

You could do a MAP test, or test for Functional Threshold Power and use Coggan's levels, just be aware of some of the mistakes/pitfalls.

Hibbs

That's great, thanks for the advice Alex.

Regards,

meanredspider

Yup - as a lay-person, I can say that I struggle to get near my MaxHR when cycling and would say that it's typically about 10bpm away from that I see running. To find it is pretty simple - run as hard as you can up a hill. When cycling, it's my muscles that limit me. As the duration goes on, I actually see my peak HR decline as my muscles tire.

I see a higher HR racing my car than I do cycling.