What is an Alcoholic?

spen666

Sounds a strange question, but was having discussion with a mate the other night and several different ideas were bandied about as to what we ould describe an alcoholic as

Wooliferkins

Someone who goes to meetings.

I always took it as someone who couldn't operate without a drink inside them. I have no doubt it is not the scientific definition but it is very different from the "someone who drinks too much" line of definition.

gbsahne001

bored at work (not much on)......

Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal.

greg66_tri_v2.0

I had always thought it was someone who was addicted to alcohol (whether they choose to admit it or not).

I'll admit that "addicted" isn't a clear term; no doubt it has a clinical meaning, but I don't know what it is.

lost_in_thought

I have always thought of it as the line between wanting a drink and needing a drink, or feeling that you do. I think that once you're in the 'need' area, you're addicted, and therefore an alcoholic.

Having been addicted (not very problematically) to smoking, when I gave up there was a feeling of needing a cigarette, which quickly faded into just wanting one, then not wanting one.

As mentioned, I'm sure there's a clinical definition, and indeed some might define it as 'if you drink more than X units in time period Y', but I don't buy that.

louismichaels

There's a thing called the CAGE question:
C-have you ever considered Cutting down
A-do you get Angry if people suggest you should think about cutting down
G-do you ever feel Guilty about your drinking
E-do you ever have an Eyeopener (alcoholic drink on first getting out of bed)

The Royal College of Psychiatrists probably has a formal definition, but it's probably along the lines of drinking a quantity of alcohol that affects your health, and professional and social relationships.

owenlars

I think it's when you have gin on your cornflakes in the morning.

Harry B

louismichaels wrote:

There's a thing called the CAGE question:
C-have you ever considered Cutting down
A-do you get Angry if people suggest you should think about cutting down
G-do you ever feel Guilty about your drinking
E-do you ever have an Eyeopener (alcoholic drink on first getting out of bed)

The Royal College of Psychiatrists probably has a formal definition, but it's probably along the lines of drinking a quantity of alcohol that affects your health, and professional and social relationships.

C - yes
A - no, I buy them a drink
G - not really guilt but do think I should cut down a bit
E - nope never

So am I okay then

spaniamania

I think it means many different things to different people.
My own interpretation is that when drink is affecting a persons lifestyle or those around them there is a problem and they are described as alchoholics.

spen666

gbsahne wrote:

bored at work (not much on)......

Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal.

Where does this come from.


It accords with my thinking. My mate was of the view that an alcoholic ( and his father died of alcoholism) was only someone who couldn't operate without a drink inside them.

Kieran_Burns

spen666 wrote:

gbsahne wrote:

bored at work (not much on)......

Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal.

Where does this come from.


It accords with my thinking. My mate was of the view that an alcoholic ( and his father died of alcoholism) was only someone who couldn't operate without a drink inside them.

use your Google-fu, alcoholism definition and you'll find it (I did)

Rich158

It's an interesting definition. My ex brother in law is in the pub pretty much every day, and was for the 20 years or so I knew him. His entire life revolves arround alcohol, all his friends are from the pub and his entire social life is there. Does it interfere with his day to day life, probably not because he has adapted his life around this. He wouldn't class himself as an alcoholic, and neither do his immediate family because he doesn't drink a bottle of whisky a day, or indeed drink any spirits.

I've always maintained that he is dependant and that he's merely adapted his life arround this fact, as indeed do many people. Most people who drink on a regular basis are more dependant than they would care to admit. It's taken me just over a year to get to the point where I'm completely ambivalent about alcohol, and all I ever used to drink was a bottle of wine over the weekend, and a few beers if I was out with friends, and yet I would never have described myself as being dependant. I have a theory that if we go out socially society has conditioned us to think we have to have an alcoholic drink, and we look at anyone who doesn't as being slightly odd, which raises the question of social drinking and it's link to alcoholism.

lost_in_thought

spen666 wrote:

gbsahne wrote:

bored at work (not much on)......

Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal.

Where does this come from.


It accords with my thinking. My mate was of the view that an alcoholic ( and his father died of alcoholism) was only someone who couldn't operate without a drink inside them.

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

asprilla

owenlars wrote:

I think it's when you have gin on your cornflakes in the morning.

Rubbish, that's just being on holiday.

spen666

owenlars wrote:

I think it's when you have gin on your cornflakes in the morning.

Vodka on my weetabix is ok is it?

hells

lost_in_thought wrote:

spen666 wrote:

gbsahne wrote:

bored at work (not much on)......

Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal.

Where does this come from.


It accords with my thinking. My mate was of the view that an alcoholic ( and his father died of alcoholism) was only someone who couldn't operate without a drink inside them.

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

Actually people with chronic alcoholism bodies do not function without alcohol. Many of the alcoholic patients I go to have ended up requiring an ambulance because if they do not drink enough alcohol they have alcholic fits from the withdrawl which are often misinterpreted by bystanders as epileptic fits. If the lack of alcohol does not cause them to fit they will often have uncontrolable shaking most notable in the hands.

tgotb

lost_in_thought wrote:

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

I can see where this is coming from. I ride to work every day on an empty stomach, and then have breakfast; if I don't manage to get something to eat within an hour or so, I get grumpy, struggle to concentrate, and am generally a waste of space. I'd describe this as being unable to operate (properly) without food inside me. I should imagine that "needing" a drink feels much the same...

If you don't have the same level of food dependency as I do (and some don't), consider how well you operate after missing a whole night's sleep...

wgwarburton

spen666 wrote:

owenlars wrote:

I think it's when you have gin on your cornflakes in the morning.

Vodka on my weetabix is ok is it?

I caution against Guinness on All-Bran.

Cheers,
W.

Porgy

It's like a chocaholic but with alcohol.

Peasoup

I cut down alcohol consumption during the week but then found out this made me a weekend binge drinker!

lost_in_thought

TGOTB wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

I can see where this is coming from. I ride to work every day on an empty stomach, and then have breakfast; if I don't manage to get something to eat within an hour or so, I get grumpy, struggle to concentrate, and am generally a waste of space. I'd describe this as being unable to operate (properly) without food inside me. I should imagine that "needing" a drink feels much the same...

If you don't have the same level of food dependency as I do (and some don't), consider how well you operate after missing a whole night's sleep...

Yes...... but sleep and food are things the body actually genuinely needs to live. Alcohol, not so much.

EDIT: Hells, missed your post... surely after a period without alcohol the fitting and shakes subside, so the body can continue to operate?

Mike400

lost_in_thought wrote:

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

Maybe he was a surgeon?

andyb78

lost_in_thought wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I find the 'can't operate without a drink inside them' an odd idea. What do they mean? Because clearly you can operate without a drink, your body still works, your brain still works. I don't think that's actually possible - sounds very melodramatic.

I can see where this is coming from. I ride to work every day on an empty stomach, and then have breakfast; if I don't manage to get something to eat within an hour or so, I get grumpy, struggle to concentrate, and am generally a waste of space. I'd describe this as being unable to operate (properly) without food inside me. I should imagine that "needing" a drink feels much the same...

If you don't have the same level of food dependency as I do (and some don't), consider how well you operate after missing a whole night's sleep...

Yes...... but sleep and food are things the body actually genuinely needs to live. Alcohol, not so much.

EDIT: Hells, missed your post... surely after a period without alcohol the fitting and shakes subside, so the body can continue to operate?

Not strictly true, certain people do actually need alcohol to live once they get to a certain point - Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome can be fatal if not managed properly....

Porgy

andyb78 wrote:

Not strictly true, certain people do actually need alcohol to live once they get to a certain point - Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome can be fatal if not managed properly....

a friend of mine died from this when in hospital.

the_hundredth_idiot

An alcoholic is someone who drinks more than you do?

Perhaps slightly flippant, but it's amazing how many people who drink far too much (including binge drinking) think they don't drink too much and are definitely not alcoholic. My father (who sounds a lot like Rich158's ex brother in law) is one of them.

andyb78

Porgy wrote:

andyb78 wrote:

Not strictly true, certain people do actually need alcohol to live once they get to a certain point - Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome can be fatal if not managed properly....

a friend of mine died from this when in hospital.

Sorry to hear that, Porgy. I used to be a drug and alcohol worker in Sheffield and worked with quite a few street drinkers - challenging stuff, but very rewarding at times.

jedster

Maybe he was a surgeon?

Reminds me of my father in law (who incidently enjoys a drink). He was in for a hip resurfacing. Surgeon comes in to see him before the op.

Surgeon "so, how are you feeling this morning"
FiL "Fine thanks. More to the point, how are you feeling? Good evening last night? Sleep well?"

Apparently the surgeon looked rather taken aback.



J

spen666

jedster wrote:

Maybe he was a surgeon?

Reminds me of my father in law (who incidently enjoys a drink). He was in for a hip resurfacing. Surgeon comes in to see him before the op.

Surgeon "so, how are you feeling this morning"
FiL "Fine thanks. More to the point, how are you feeling? Good evening last night? Sleep well?"

Apparently the surgeon looked rather taken aback.



J

I went to docotrs the other day feeling unwell

doctor gave me a thorough examination and then said "I can't find anything wrong with you Mr S, it must be the drink"
I said "I'll come back when you are sober then doctor"




I'll get my coat......

Porgy

andyb78 wrote:

Porgy wrote:

andyb78 wrote:

Not strictly true, certain people do actually need alcohol to live once they get to a certain point - Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome can be fatal if not managed properly....

a friend of mine died from this when in hospital.

Sorry to hear that, Porgy. I used to be a drug and alcohol worker in Sheffield and worked with quite a few street drinkers - challenging stuff, but very rewarding at times.

He was an old compatriot of mine from a well to do family who hated everything they stood for - privelege, wealth etc. We used to be activists together - funnily enough he knew my first wife, and then when I married a second time, turns out he knew her too.

He got rapidly disilusioned with life. Last time I saw him he was very ill - and actively trying to drink himself to death. Ironic that it should be alcohol deprivation that killed him in the end.

sally65

nobody here is a friend of bill w or doctor bob then?

AndyManc

What is an Alcoholic?


Most GP's and Dentists apparently :roll:


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