Any Vegetarians out there??

211dave112

SO, do we have any vegetarians in here?

I've recently become vegetarian (still eat eggs/milk etc though) and it hasn't had much effect on my cycling and general fitness. However I'm interested in other people's experiences of being vegetarian and being active in general (I cycle a lot, but also run and do gym work etc). Anything I should be avoiding? Supplementing my diet with?

thanks

bompington

211dave112 wrote:

Anything I should be supplementing my diet with?

meat

daccordimark

I've been an ovo/lacto vegetarian (same as you) for nearly 30 years (started at 16) and so far I haven't noticed any major downsides health wise. I am trying to cut down on the dairy products a bit these days due to concerns about saturated fat intake but I haven't actually added up how many grammes of sat fat I eat a day yet. My big weakness is cheese.

Protein is always the big worry but careful combinations of pulses/beans/dairy/tofu (if you can stand it) are said to provide the right amino acids etc. There was an article about protein on Bikeradar fairly recently that touched on this.

As usual if your diet is balanced you should get everything you need but vitamin B12 is often cited as something hard to get for vegetarians. I love Marmite so get mine that way.

I time-trialled a lot from age 19 to 24 and although I was never a big-gear mashing strong rider I could spin up the hills. Oh how times have changed!!!! I do wonder sometimes if I would have been faster/stronger on a carnivore diet but it's purely academic as I could never go back to any meat/fish/poultry.

Mark.

hugo15

I'm not a veggie, but don't tend to each much meat other than chicken now and again. I do eat a fair amount of Quorn, which is a good source of protien and is low in fat.

Anonymous

What about kebabs FFs ? They are part of your 5 a day y'know ?

neeb

I was completely vegetarian (ova/lacto) for about 18 years, have eaten a little fish for the past 5 years. Basically, it's healthier than a carnivorous diet, all other things being equal. B12 is not something you need to worry about unless you are vegan. Just make sure you get enough protein when you are pushing yourself on the bike - I like chocolate soya milk as a recovery drink and eat quite a lot of tofu (and some fish) when I feel I need it, e.g. at this time of year when my cycling load is increasing. And pizza is always good in moderation , especially if home-made and topped with lots of healthy stuff as well as cheese (spinach, pine nuts, lingonberries..). If you are getting achy muscles that's a good sign you need to eat more protein. But don't overdo it - part of the reason that veggies tend to be healthier in the long term may be because they don't eat so much protein.. One thing I have realised since I started taking cycling seriously is how much your protein requirements vary according to how much exercise you are getting, more specifically how much you are increasing your exercise load. You need a lot of protein if you are building muscle at the start of the season, but quite a bit less once you are in good form and just ticking over in terms of muscle repair etc. Sedentary people really don't need much at all, in fact it would be difficult for them to be deficient even as vegetarians.

211dave112

thanks for the tips and detailed answers (almost ) everyone!

stonehouse

Being vegetarian for many years I've heard all the comments you can imagine from meat eaters. It is easliy possible to be a good cyclist without eating meat, there is a lot of nonsense talked about the need to consume protein in huge amounts. Soya protein is almost equal to beef in protein content and a damn sight safer to eat IMHO.

I find the Quorn products to be an excellent replacement for many of the meat alternatives, although I'd be the first to admit that some veggie options are quite awful, there is a bit of experimenting required in that department.

For those that think you can't be sucessful as an vegetarian athelete, just "google" and see the results of how many BIG names are veggie, check out Dave Scott for instance!

ascurrell

I know it's not answering the original question. But does my memory serve me right in thinking the old Linda McCartney pro cycling team members all had to be vegetarians ?

alfablue

Been an Ovo-Lacto veggie for 30 years, my son (25) has been a veggie since birth, no problems with fitness, my son is a good cyclist and has competed at county level in swimming and athletics, and club/university rugby union - he would dispel any doubts about veggie diet compromising fitness!

If you are interested in the ethics then you should go for organic dairy products (better welfare standards) and free range eggs.

stonehouse

I know it's not answering the original question. But does my memory serve me right in thinking the old Linda McCartney pro cycling team members all had to be vegetarians ?

Yes you are right although I don't think they did particularly well. Being forced to be a veggie is not on IMHO.

msw

For those that think you can't be sucessful as an vegetarian athelete, just "google" and see the results of how many BIG names are veggie, check out Dave Scott for instance!

And of course...

simon_e

msw wrote:

And of course...

You beat me to it!

Have been meat-free for several years, stopped eating it when my wife decided to be veggie. Used to love sausages, don't fancy anything meat-based now, totally lost the taste for it. Also don't miss that bloated feeling after big meals.

Off the shelf products like Quorn & Linda McCartney help with the quick solutions on days when we're pressed for time or fancy hot dogs & burgers, but Mrs E's homemade meals are best - veggie shepherd's pie, curry or the thick, soupy stuff where she throws a load of veg, a jar of some tomato-ey thing, fresh herbs in a pan and presently serves it with bread doorsteps. Mmmmm.

We also buy dried beans, fruit, brazils, almonds and walnuts in bulk from a wholesaler. Buying bulk makes organic nuts and fruit more affordable, so they get decanted into smaller containers. The nuts and fruit are used for snacks/lunchboxes and adding to muesli as well as for baking. I keep wanting to use the soya choccy milk as a recovery drink but my son drinks it so fast it doesn't stay in the fridge long enough!

LJAR

I just like bacon too much...

and steak, and roast chicken, and burgers, and pork chops, and fish....*salivates*

Headhuunter

Everyone has said everything. I'm not veggie but the other half is (apart from a bit of fish occasionally - so pescetarian perhaps), which means I don't eat a lot of meat.

One thing has always intrigued me though, in terms of protein consumption. I go to the gym 3x per week, most to do upper body work so that I don't end up out of proportion with all the cycling. After the gym I down a whey protein isolate shake. Everything I've read on the net says that whey protein isolate and whey hydrolysate are the most bio available and easily absorbed forms of protein known to man, however some people still say that I should eat more meat etc for the protein.

Is it possible to get your full protein RDA from protein shakes? I know that protein shakes don't contain vit B12 or iron etc which is present in meat, but how about the specific protein bit. Is it better to get protein from eating a great big steak or drinking a shake? I know the steak tastes nice but the shake is completely fat free!

ut_och_cykla

Headhuunter wrote:

Everyone has said everything. I'm not veggie but the other half is (apart from a bit of fish occasionally - so pescetarian perhaps), which means I don't eat a lot of meat.

One thing has always intrigued me though, in terms of protein consumption. I go to the gym 3x per week, most to do upper body work so that I don't end up out of proportion with all the cycling. After the gym I down a whey protein isolate shake. Everything I've read on the net says that whey protein isolate and whey hydrolysate are the most bio available and easily absorbed forms of protein known to man, however some people still say that I should eat more meat etc for the protein.

Is it possible to get your full protein RDA from protein shakes? I know that protein shakes don't contain vit B12 or iron etc which is present in meat, but how about the specific protein bit. Is it better to get protein from eating a great big steak or drinking a shake? I know the steak tastes nice but the shake is completely fat free!

Yes you can get all protein needs from a protein drink or any other good source of protein if you consume enough of it. Plusses include speed of preparation, lack of cooking (meat fish & eggs need to be cooked etc) and lack of fat. Downside is they are not 'real' food. And I would recommend a healthy diet based on real food before shakes gels and stuff out of a packet.

But all 'convenience' foods have a role to play in some situations - I just wouldnt base my whole food intake on them! Anything more than 1.5g/kg body weight of protein is probably a waste and is easy to achieve if your eating plenty of calories otherwise (harder on calorie reduction due to fat content of 'real' protien sources). Liek most things in life - all things in moderation

Headhuunter

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Everyone has said everything. I'm not veggie but the other half is (apart from a bit of fish occasionally - so pescetarian perhaps), which means I don't eat a lot of meat.

One thing has always intrigued me though, in terms of protein consumption. I go to the gym 3x per week, most to do upper body work so that I don't end up out of proportion with all the cycling. After the gym I down a whey protein isolate shake. Everything I've read on the net says that whey protein isolate and whey hydrolysate are the most bio available and easily absorbed forms of protein known to man, however some people still say that I should eat more meat etc for the protein.

Is it possible to get your full protein RDA from protein shakes? I know that protein shakes don't contain vit B12 or iron etc which is present in meat, but how about the specific protein bit. Is it better to get protein from eating a great big steak or drinking a shake? I know the steak tastes nice but the shake is completely fat free!

Yes you can get all protein needs from a protein drink or any other good source of protein if you consume enough of it. Plusses include speed of preparation, lack of cooking (meat fish & eggs need to be cooked etc) and lack of fat. Downside is they are not 'real' food. And I would recommend a healthy diet based on real food before shakes gels and stuff out of a packet.

But all 'convenience' foods have a role to play in some situations - I just wouldnt base my whole food intake on them! Anything more than 1.5g/kg body weight of protein is probably a waste and is easy to achieve if your eating plenty of calories otherwise (harder on calorie reduction due to fat content of 'real' protien sources). Liek most things in life - all things in moderation

Thanks but why wouldn't you base your entire protein intake on whey protein shakes? Of course whey protein shakes do not have the associated vits and minerals that a juicy steak has (vit B12, iron etc ) but when it comes down to pure protein, if whey isolate etc is the most bio available form of protein known, why shouldn't you base your bodily protein requirements around it. I know it's not "real food" but if it delivers the same result, why not?

simon_e

Headhuunter wrote:

wouldn't you base your entire protein intake on whey protein shakes? Of course whey protein shakes do not have the associated vits and minerals that a juicy steak has (vit B12, iron etc ) but when it comes down to pure protein, if whey isolate etc is the most bio available form of protein known, why shouldn't you base your bodily protein requirements around it. I know it's not "real food" but if it delivers the same result, why not?

I wouldn't favour it because it's not real food (which is what we have evolved to consume), but that's not to say anyone shouldn't.

I'd be interested to know if whey protein powder really is as good for bioavailability as is claimed. I've read plenty on here and other forums about wind and poor digestibility of whey which makes me wonder if it's such a good idea.

You can get plenty of iron, vitamins and protein from other sources, people simply don't need meat to be healthy, strong or physically fit. It seems that the western meat-based diet is particularly high in protein and for some reason many people to assume (wrongly) that not eating meat leads to deficiency when a varied diet provides plenty of protein already.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... -_how_much

ut_och_cykla

Headhuunter wrote:

SNIP

Is it possible to get your full protein RDA from protein shakes?

I know that protein shakes don't contain vit B12 or iron etc which is present in meat, but how about the specific protein bit. Is it better to get protein from eating a great big steak or drinking a shake?

I know the steak tastes nice but the shake is completely fat free!

Yes its easy to get RDA in protein from shakes.
I would choose steak before protein shake.
Pulses, beans, white fish, chicken/turkey breast - are all high in protein and low in fat. So if you didnt fancy steak these would be good options.

durianrider

Ive been a vegan for coming up 10 years and currently race Cat 1. The only supp I do is b12 injections but then again, so do most of the Cat 1 crew I ride with as does Lance, Cadel, Ogrady etc. Ive trained with em all and its common to do 3 b12 shots a week during big weeks on the bike. Cadel ditches the dairy before big races to lean up and breathe easier.

Lance went vegan for a bit when he got his cancer diagnosis cos his good buddy Rip Esselstyn adviced that would be the best diet to eat whilst building your immune system up again.

Basso eats close to vegan as did Hamilton and Zabriske is a full blown vegan nut job.

I went out with Lance a few weeks ago and said he should talk more about diet and cancer connections with Live Strong, he said 'yeah, whatever'.

durianrider

Ive been a vegan for coming up 10 years and currently race Cat 1. The only supp I do is b12 injections but then again, so do most of the Cat 1 crew I ride with as does Lance, Cadel, Ogrady etc. Ive trained with em all and its common to do 3 b12 shots a week during big weeks on the bike. Cadel ditches the dairy before big races to lean up and breathe easier.

Lance went vegan for a bit when he got his cancer diagnosis cos his good buddy Rip Esselstyn adviced that would be the best diet to eat whilst building your immune system up again.

Basso eats close to vegan as did Hamilton and Zabriske is a full blown vegan nut job.

I went out with Lance a few weeks ago and said he should talk more about diet and cancer connections with Live Strong, he said 'yeah, whatever'.

chill123

i went out with contador the other day and he said i should eat more steak from his 'special' butcher.

Velonutter

Been Lacto Vegetarian for something like 27 years, my wife has been for over 30 years, wouldn't let my kids become vegetarian until they were old enough to make an educated decision.

In the early days when I was working out it was hard enough to get enough protein in, but now with Quorn and other excellent stuff from the Veggie shops you can do really well.

At 51 I cycle in the summer up to 300 miles a week mostly between 18-20 mph so got to be doing something right, my cholesterol is 2.5 and resting heart beat is currently 48.

For me I look at all living things in the world and am just grateful that I am not responsible for their deaths.

I'm sure hat if people had to kill their own meat that 75% would become vegetarian.

If you want to read some facts hen have a look at this: -

http://www.vegsoc.org/page.aspx?pid=600

For protein alternatives have a look here: -

http://www.happycow.net/vegetarian_protein.html

More info: -

Compassion for animals is one of the main reasons why people become vegetarian.

In the UK alone, over two million land animals and almost 600,000 tonnes of fish are slaughtered each year, just so that people can eat their flesh or wear their skin.
70% of pigs reared in the UK are farmed intensively.

* These intelligent and inquisitive animals are forced to live entirely indoors, in over-crowded sheds that do not allow them to express natural behaviours such as foraging and nest-building.
*
Intensively-reared sows give birth and raise their young in farrowing crates. These metal crates are so small that sows cannot turn around or suckle their piglets.

Birds factory farmed today grow three times as fast as they did 50 years ago.

* Broiler chickens have been selectively bred and reared for their meat. The majority live in large, crowded, windowless sheds with tens of thousands of other birds.

Most sheep are not farmed intensively, but they still suffer.

* Diseases such as lameness, mastitis, Sheep Scab, pneumonia and hypothermia are common.
* Sheep may be transported considerable distances to slaughter; some journeys last 24 hours or more.

Over 2.6 million cattle were slaughtered in the UK in 2009.

* Calves have to endure castration, disbudding and dehorning.
* Increasing numbers of beef cattle are housed in pens on concrete or slats without bedding.

Fish do feel pain.

* Almost half of the fish we consume today are reared intensively on fish farms, where they suffer increased stress and disease.
* When wild fish are caught and hauled to the surface, decompression can cause their eyes to pop out and their stomachs to be pushed out through their mouths.

Can slaughter ever be humane?

* Most land animals killed for food in the UK are stunned before bleeding to death. We have some of the most stringent regulations in the world, but still many animals die in fear and pain. For many vegetarians, no form of slaughter can ever be considered humane.

neeb

When I became vegetarian just over 20 years ago it was for humane reasons, although nowadays what I eat (no meat but occasional fish) is a compromise between habit/convenience/health and not wanting to cause any more suffering to animals than necessary.

If I was to choose what I ate nowadays purely on moral grounds my diet would be a little different from what it is.

In theory I wouldn't have any moral issues with killing a wild / semi-wild animal in order to eat it, if it was killed humanely in the field and doing so didn't threaten wild populations. A good example would be venison shot on Scottish estates - red deer numbers need to be controlled (originally this would have been done by wolves) and for animals such as deer to be killed and eaten by predators is part of the order of nature, whether the predators are wolves or humans. I might catch rabbits and eat them. As it is, I don't have any desire to eat meat (far less to kill animals to do so), so I choose not to. Of course the vast majority of meat eaten by humans involves intensive rearing and all of those other horrible and unnatural practices which are clearly inhumane as well as indirectly causing a great deal of damage to natural ecosystems, etc etc. On the other hand I do eat some dairy products, which are mostly a byproduct of those very practices, so if I wasn't compromising I would avoid these entirely.

Fish are a bit more complicated. I avoid fish-farmed fish because the practice is damaging to the environment and natural habitats as well as being arguably inhumane. On the other hand I do believe that fish (teleosts) are several pegs down on the ladder of sentience from higher mammals and that the extent to which you can consider an animal to be sentient and to suffer in a way that we would understand has to be on a sliding scale corresponding to the complexity of the nervous system and behavioral sophistication. Otherwise you get into the absurd situation of treating the life of a mosquito or an earthworm the same as that of a gorilla or a dolphin. Most fish are fairly primitive as far as vertebrates go, some extremely so. My main problem with (my own) fish eating is the damage that overfishing causes, and the damage to the seabed from trawling.

neeb

The only supp I do is b12 injections but then again, so do most of the Cat 1 crew I ride with

Hmm, I think I might just stick with Marmite...

Murr X

Velonutter, I agree with much of what you said. I was a vegan for a while during my teenage years mainly for the reason that I was not happy at how farm animals are often treated during their lives. Although no longer a vegan or vegetarian I still am very touchy about this and always encourage people to know where they are getting their meat and fish from.

It's just not right to make an animal suffer greatly for most of its life when there are viable alternatives. Unfortunately intensively farming animals is cheaper and people in general do not care enough when these things like these are out of their direct view.

I am not aiming this at you (Velonutter) but many (not all by any means) vegetarians I know seem to think that because they do not eat meat that the rest of their diets can go to hell and they can still be healthy. Not to mention that some even think that they can do whatever they feel like in other areas of their lives and still be nice and "green" and environmentally friendly just because they avoid meat. Also within the vegan movement a lot of misinformation flies around and in some cases lies too - this is the case with the meat business as well of course.

Have to say that you can be a better vegan bodybuilder than the vegans shown above, lol.


Murr X

Velonutter

Murr, No Probs agree with you, in all walks of life there are extremists & t0ssers.

I manage and encourage my family to eat healthily and to consider the consequences of all there actions.

I rarely mention being a vegetarian as to me it is just a food source, albeit one that does not involve harming any living thing.

I dislike any persons forcing their views down my throat whether they are meat eaters or vegetarians, much nicer to have gentle discussions and open honest debates

ADIHEAD

Hey I should have read this before doing another post :oops: Did anyone see the article in this month's Cycling Plus? It suggests Creatine additives may be a good idea, anyone tried them?

plankton

I have been concidering becoming a vegetarian too. Some helpful information here.
Anyone got some suggestions for a good pre ride breakfast?

Velonutter

Plankton,

I think you'll find many people whether Vegetarian or not eat Porridge for breakfast.

Mines just on now, before my commute.

simon_e

Velonutter wrote:

* Broiler chickens have been selectively bred and reared for their meat. The majority live in large, crowded, windowless sheds with tens of thousands of other birds.

Also most laying hens are kept indoors for more hours than they should, including some labelled 'free range'. Other than a farm or smallholder you know only organic birds and those specifically labelled like Sainsbury's woodland eggs are treated as hens should be.

I laughed with derision when I saw Muller's current 'Thank You Cows' advert showing a dairy cow on a beach that "dreamed of being a horse". There's not much grass on a beach, neither is there in the intensive dairy farms where most dairy cows are kept.

John Hurt's voiceover tells us they "give us their milk". What a joke! We breed them for max output and repeated impregnation in their shortened lives, we take their calves away and immediately kill the male ones as they're no use.

The result is that we drink the milk of another species - one with a totally different digestive system and nutrition requirements (hence lactose intolerance, babies with milk spots). Bizarrely, many people recoil at the idea of breastfeeding our own children and instead turn to bottles of powdered cow's milk. How perverse.

plankton wrote:

Anyone got some suggestions for a good pre ride breakfast?

Porridge. Some people like it with fruit e.g. chopped apple, raisins or tinned peaches.
Banana.
Wholemeal toast & jam and a glass of fruit juice.
More food ideas here: http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/nutrition/archive