Vo2 max intervals: how many sessions per week?

Toks

I'm probably gonna start some of these in the next couple of weeks as race prep. I'm just wondering what people's experience is doing them once a week as opposed to twice per week. I'm probably talking 4min x 6 with a four minute recovery. Thanks in advance

ut_och_cykla

Phew... Ive been doing once a week for a while but I'm not a racer - just someone looking for more output. Guess its your own fitness that will decide - not worth doing unless you can give it your all - perhaps try a rolling scheme so you reduce the gap between sessions over a few weeks and find the ideal balance between recovery and gain?

Toks

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Phew... Ive been doing once a week for a while but I'm not a racer - just someone looking for more output. Guess its your own fitness that will decide - not worth doing unless you can give it your all - perhaps try a rolling scheme so you reduce the gap between sessions over a few weeks and find the ideal balance between recovery and gain?

Yeah I was thinking twice a week. What sort of sessions have you been doing?

Alex_Simmons/RST

depends on many things. 2 per week is a lot for someone who's not done them before.

ut_och_cykla

Toks wrote:

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Phew... Ive been doing once a week for a while but I'm not a racer - just someone looking for more output. Guess its your own fitness that will decide - not worth doing unless you can give it your all - perhaps try a rolling scheme so you reduce the gap between sessions over a few weeks and find the ideal balance between recovery and gain?

Yeah I was thinking twice a week. What sort of sessions have you been doing?

2 sessions a week - one nearly always 5 x 4:4 and the other either 2 x 20 or sometimes short even harder intervals with a longer rest 30:60 secs. This was exhausting in a subtle sort of way several days afterwards!

I think the 4 mins would be boring t o do (personally) twice a week - I did (my own) a 12 week plan that mixed sessions between the 3 described so weeks were rarely the same.

Try once a week to start with and see if you can reduce the gap between sessions as you progress.

Think the most important thing is to make sure you are recovered /have everything to give theses sessions - if you cant get your pulse/watts up they wont give you the improvements you are looking for. I'm to do a full VO2 max test this evening. Will be interesting to see what has happened since last october....Think I've shifted my LT quite a bit and perhaps gained some watts at the top end - but I suspect my old CV system will not show much change in VO2 max mg/l.
good luck - remember I'm not racing , your age or sex so you can afford to give it some welly!!!

Toks

Did a 4 x 4 mins today. Legs are sore but I'm sure i could repeat this on Saturday morning. I'm seem to find myself doing lots of 30-60minute 2up or 3ups around the ever popular Regents park. Each 1-2 minute turn feels quite a bit above threshold so perhaps that can replace one of the VO2max sessions.

ut_och_cykla

My understanding of 4 min (rather than 1 or 2) is that it actually takes that long to get where you want to be when it comes to load on the body, blood pressure etc. So the 1 or 2 minutes is probably good but perhaps too short and too infrequent to replace 'pure' VO2 training.
My test last night was hard but satisfying - 10-15% improvement in almost every aspect including VO2 max 14% +, Watts at OBLA etc etc - and all on 2 very focused sessions a week since Christmas - now I will start riding outdoors doing distance and maintaining my new won fitness

jibberjim

ut_och_cykla wrote:

My understanding of 4 min (rather than 1 or 2) is that it actually takes that long to get where you want to be when it comes to load on the body, blood pressure etc. So the 1 or 2 minutes is probably good but perhaps too short and too infrequent to replace 'pure' VO2 training.

4 min from a rest interval then yep, but not 4 minutes from a just sub-threshold effort when sitting 2nd wheel before doing the turn - Assuming Toks is doing it 2 up and just having 2 minutes on the wheel just sub threshold. So the delay won't be as long.

nmcgann

ut_och_cykla wrote:

My understanding of 4 min (rather than 1 or 2) is that it actually takes that long to get where you want to be when it comes to load on the body, blood pressure etc. So the 1 or 2 minutes is probably good but perhaps too short and too infrequent to replace 'pure' VO2 training.
My test last night was hard but satisfying - 10-15% improvement in almost every aspect including VO2 max 14% +, Watts at OBLA etc etc - and all on 2 very focused sessions a week since Christmas - now I will start riding outdoors doing distance and maintaining my new won fitness

Yes, that's right. vo2 work is "usually" prescribed as 4-6min intervals based on the theory that it takes 1-2mins to get the body up to max o2 consumption.

As in most things to do with training there is a wide range of opinions supporting all manner of interval regimes though, so YMMV

Toks

ut_och_cykla wrote:

My understanding of 4 min (rather than 1 or 2) is that it actually takes that long to get where you want to be when it comes to load on the body, blood pressure etc. So the 1 or 2 minutes is probably good but perhaps too short and too infrequent to replace 'pure' VO2 training.
My test last night was hard but satisfying - 10-15% improvement in almost every aspect including VO2 max 14% +, Watts at OBLA etc etc - and all on 2 very focused sessions a week since Christmas - now I will start riding outdoors doing distance and maintaining my new won fitness

Nice one 8)... Re the 1-2 min efforts not being true VO2max efforts, I agree. But I don't think I can do two VO2max sessions plus one or even two 30-60 minute breakaway style efforts a week and some sweet spot stuff without my "forty-something" body eventually becoming 'exercise-avoidant' due to fatigue

ut_och_cykla

Toks wrote:

ut_och_cykla wrote:

My understanding of 4 min (rather than 1 or 2) is that it actually takes that long to get where you want to be when it comes to load on the body, blood pressure etc. So the 1 or 2 minutes is probably good but perhaps too short and too infrequent to replace 'pure' VO2 training.
My test last night was hard but satisfying - 10-15% improvement in almost every aspect including VO2 max 14% +, Watts at OBLA etc etc - and all on 2 very focused sessions a week since Christmas - now I will start riding outdoors doing distance and maintaining my new won fitness

Nice one 8)... Re the 1-2 min efforts not being true VO2max efforts, I agree. But I don't think I can do two VO2max sessions plus one or even two 30-60 minute breakaway style efforts a week and some sweet spot stuff without my "forty-something" body eventually becoming 'exercise-avoidant' due to fatigue

Mmm ... that 40 + feeling - one is not immortal. recovery takes longer etc. One really good VO2 session has done good things for me (also 40 +!) so perhaps thas the way to go rather than 2 'bit tired' sessions. Good luck anyway!

Bhima

Are you all talking about training "power at vo2 max" or "training to reach a state of vo2 max"?

I can ride at my vo2 max power for a few minutes without hitting actual vo2 max breathing levels.

Is riding to the point where you are on the limit after 4/5 minutes better training? I couldn't do as much volume that way...

Bronzie

As ever with this sort of question, I think it's more about getting sufficient total volume in roughly the right intensity and how this fits into your weekly / monthly / seasonal schedule rather than the exact details of how they are performed.

Typical L5 intervals are along the lines of 5x5mins @ 110-120% FTP, but if you are hitting higher powers for slightly shorter durations (ie min 3 mins), or lesser powers for slightly longer (ie max 8 mins) then the number of reps you can achieve will probably take care of itself.

Toks

Bhima wrote:

Are you all talking about training "power at vo2 max" or "training to reach a state of vo2 max"?

Personally I'm looking to raise my VO2 max power and even drag up my FTP in the process

Alex_Simmons/RST

You can discuss increasing VO2max or of increasing power for a given duration. There is no such thing as VO2max power.

One is a measure of O2 utilisation. The other is a measure of power.

Toks

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

You can discuss increasing VO2max or of increasing power for a given duration. There is no such thing as VO2max power.

One is a measure of O2 utilisation. The other is a measure of power.

Thanks for the clarification Alex. I would indeed like to increase my VO2 max or my power at VO2 max 8)

Alex_Simmons/RST

Toks wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

You can discuss increasing VO2max or of increasing power for a given duration. There is no such thing as VO2max power.

One is a measure of O2 utilisation. The other is a measure of power.

Thanks for the clarification Alex. I would indeed like to increase my VO2 max or my power at VO2 max 8)

Well since a state of VO2 max can be elicited from power levels ranging from sub-threshold (long TT type threshold I mean) if you ride long enough, up to very hard efforts of only a couple of minutes, that's probably a very good thing, even if a pretty non-specific aim.

Read up on "the slow component".