Helmets

rjsterry

It is now I read it back UE. I can be a bit slow on the uptake :oops: Strange that people fear their families more than cracking their head on something though, but that's people for you.

TommyEss

suzyb wrote:

In my defence I was a teenager at the time and wouldn't have been let out the house without a helmet on but it wasn't "cool" to be seen with one.

I do always wear one now though. Even though during my one and only major crash when I was wearing a helmet I was still knocked out.

A helmet is no guarantee against any head injury whatsoever, it is designed to mitigate any impact.

It could be argued that had you not been wearing the helmet you'd have been a lot worse than just knocked out.

Others may be able to successfully argue that the angle at which your head landed due to the extra weight and bulk of the helmet actually caused you to be knocked out.

And that's why no one can really agree on helmets.

Wear one if you want, don't if you don't!

kelsen

lost_in_thought wrote:

My mother constantly says 'I wish you'd wear a helmet'. Many exes have said the same. I have told them all the same thing - I don't like them, and I'm not going to start wearing one.

Why did you go out with them in the first place?

il_principe

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

what i dont understand is people who carry their helmet attached to their bag rather than wear it

Especially when draped over the handlebars is way cooler.

Anyone else think they left the house wearing the helmet and their Mum/Wife/GF doesn't like them cycling without one, then took it off when they got round the corner, because they're rebels?

One of my son's mates does that. He hides it in the hedge, though.

I did this once, then I MTFU'd and made my position clear. S'funny really, I was on the Tweed ride yesterday which was conducted entirely at and below the speeds at which helmets are effective and yet no one was wearing one. Whereas on Sportives & racing where your mostly going way above the 'helmet effectiveness' speed - you are pretty much always required to wear one...

lost_in_thought

kelsen wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

My mother constantly says 'I wish you'd wear a helmet'. Many exes have said the same. I have told them all the same thing - I don't like them, and I'm not going to start wearing one.

Why did you go out with them in the first place?

'Cause they were pretty...

TommyEss

Il Principe wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

what i dont understand is people who carry their helmet attached to their bag rather than wear it

Especially when draped over the handlebars is way cooler.

Anyone else think they left the house wearing the helmet and their Mum/Wife/GF doesn't like them cycling without one, then took it off when they got round the corner, because they're rebels?

One of my son's mates does that. He hides it in the hedge, though.

I did this once, then I MTFU'd and made my position clear. S'funny really, I was on the Tweed ride yesterday which was conducted entirely at and below the speeds at which helmets are effective and yet no one was wearing one. Whereas on Sportives & racing where your mostly going way above the 'helmet effectiveness' speed - you are pretty much always required to wear one...

I've got to say though, this whole idea of "speed of helmet effectiveness" is flawed logic.

If you crash and hit your head, irrespective of the impact speed, it takes energy to break the helmet. This is energy that won't go into your head.

It might not be enough of a reduction to prevent your demise, and you may find that the crash has caused injuries to other parts of your body and you still die. But by the same token, you may find it takes out just enough energy that you walk away with a headache rather than being unconscious, a speech impediment rather than being brain dead - you don't know.

The fact that a helmet might only be tested at an impact speed of 12 mph does not mean it is suddenly rendered completely useless at 12.1 mph.

Clever Pun

But... *thinks about it, decides it's just going to be hassle.*

*wonders off to snipe at a DDD thread*

TommyEss

Clever Pun wrote:

But... *thinks about it, decides it's just going to be hassle.*

*wonders off to snipe at a DDD thread*

Meh - you're right...! :roll:

Which DDD thread?! So many to choose from!

tailwindhome

My wife said she worried about me when I went out with no helmet.

I bought a helmet

My wife laughs at me every time I put on the helmet

suzyb

TommyEss wrote:

suzyb wrote:

In my defence I was a teenager at the time and wouldn't have been let out the house without a helmet on but it wasn't "cool" to be seen with one.

I do always wear one now though. Even though during my one and only major crash when I was wearing a helmet I was still knocked out.

A helmet is no guarantee against any head injury whatsoever, it is designed to mitigate any impact.

It could be argued that had you not been wearing the helmet you'd have been a lot worse than just knocked out.

Others may be able to successfully argue that the angle at which your head landed due to the extra weight and bulk of the helmet actually caused you to be knocked out.

And that's why no one can really agree on helmets.

Wear one if you want, don't if you don't!

Actually I think I landed on my face judging by the state I was in afterwards.

But now I wear a helmet because I feel safer wearing one regardless of whether I actually am or not.

Zombie_donkey

The price of them amazes me. You can get a motorcycle helmet for what high end ones cost and they must cost more to make.

I got one because I'm totally out of practice on a bike and a bit wobbly to begin with.

Eau Rouge

suzyb wrote:

But now I wear a helmet because I feel safer wearing one regardless of whether I actually am or not.

I always cringe when I read things like that. Things that make you feel safer than you really should feel are not good. They give you the impression it's ok to do something that it really probably isn't ok to do.
It's one of my gripes with speed limits, they give bad drivers the impression that as long as they stay below the speed limit their somehow "safe".
I wear a helmet, but I assume it's not going to do anything for me in an accident.

roger_merriman

John Stevenson wrote:

Radioactiveman wrote:

I think all the non helmet wearers should test their skull against a kerb at 15mph and we wont have to have this conversation ever again

What is it about being an advocate for helmets that makes people so deeply unpleasant about those who disagree with them?

Belief, to be fair some of the anti helmet lot can be equally unpleasant.

tailwindhome

Eau Rouge wrote:

I wear a helmet, but I assume it's not going to do anything for me in an accident.

Why wear it?


ETA On rereading your post you may be paraphrasing SuzyB to make your point

John Stevenson

roger merriman wrote:

Belief, to be fair some of the anti helmet lot can be equally unpleasant.

I am undoubtedly showing confirmation bias here, but it always seems to be helmet advocates wishing head injuries and death on those who question their belief, and not the other way round.

suzyb

In my case the safe feeling doesn't do that. The helmet only protects my head so I don't do anything stupid to protect the rest of me from pain.

prb007

it'll be law by 2013, then you'll all be sorry - and safer.
Motorbike helmets became law 1973.
Seatbelts in cars; 1983 (1935 in the US!) 1993 in all of EU.
Airbags in cars; 2003

ergo.........2013 - compulsory helmet wear for all!
slightly flawed logic, I know, but I am slightly flawed!

John Stevenson - how are you?
I raced against you back in the day,
'Tandemania' in Mid-Wales, 1994,
you and Lesley interviewed me and Jackie for MBUK,
now THAT makes me feel old!!!!!!!!!

anyhoo, back on topic - seriously, why would you NOT wear a helmet?
a; because you are indestructible
b; because you fancy spending 50 years in a PVS
c; because it's uncool
d; because it's too heavy
e; all of the above

get a grip, get a lid, get it on, get on with your life!

and, no, this is not me................

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... s%3Disch:1

roger_merriman

John Stevenson wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

Belief, to be fair some of the anti helmet lot can be equally unpleasant.

I am undoubtedly showing confirmation bias here, but it always seems to be helmet advocates wishing head injuries and death on those who question their belief, and not the other way round.

you may well be right, It's always seems to be "you must be dumb etc" tends to come from the pro. though the anti can have some breathtaking jumps of logic. resulting in wearing one will kill kittens etc....

I'm unconvinced they do much bar create long threads on forums.....

Underscore

TommyEss wrote:

I've got to say though, this whole idea of "speed of helmet effectiveness" is flawed logic.

If you crash and hit your head, irrespective of the impact speed, it takes energy to break the helmet. This is energy that won't go into your head.

Indeed but, since kinetic energy is proportional to mass (E=1/2 mv^2) and the helmet adds weight to your head, can you be sure that the energy absorbed is more than the extra kinetic energy that your head/helmet possesses (assuming you are travelling at the same speed) due to the fact that you are wearing a helmet?

_

Full disclosure: I am pro-choice on helmets but, personally, always wear a helmet.

rolf_f

I have to admit that I don't get the thing about them being uncomfortable as a reason not to wear a helmet. I'm bald (so no hair to pad the helmet fit) and I've still managed to get into work without noticing I'd left my helmet at home. You do get used to them.

When I have realised I forgot the lid, on the commute it has made me feel quite vulnerable (though the roads here seem far safer than London) though it hasn't changed my pace - so on that basis, for me, there is no issue that the presence of the helmet encourages a less risk averse riding style. I think most of us, here at least, probably always cycle as hard as we can.

That said, I shall probably do some rides over the summer in an old style cycling cap. I'd hate to think that it became compulsory to wear a lid. However, it is common sense that if you come off and hit your head, at any speed, it might be the helmet that saves you. It might not but that extra layer could make the difference. In the end though, we should be able to make our own choices about risks we take. The alternative is a society where we aren't allowed to do anything.

Who buys eggs and takes them out of the box before putting them into their carrier bags?

surreyxc

but it feels so good. Left my helmet at home day by accident, whilst it is very expensive, not wearing a lid felt liberating, feel more part of world. But seriously I wear my lid whilst walking, running, on a ladder, whilst climbing trees, and when walking home drunk from the pub. If I am going for it yep where my lid, but if a poodling along a canal path or fire road at 10mph I will take my chance. They also offer neck braces and spinal boards now better get those as well. Hey I propose that when we go out drinking we designate one in the group who can not drink so they can escort us home incase any of us fall in the road. Here is another idea, perhaps we should make all drivers not wear seat belts by law.

Kieran_Burns

I only wear my helmet for two reasons:

If I am involved in an accident, I don't want some dumb arse lawyer attempting to mitigate blame by stating I was not wearing one

A basic psychology of drivers who appear (IMHO) to give more credence to those cyclists who LOOK experienced and the helmet helps.

There may or may not be aid to be had while wearing one, and I strongly advocate the freedom of choice to do so; but I wear a helmet for the same reasons I wear hi-viz: Perception, perception, perception.

dugliss

Whoops, sorry I didn`t mean for all this ugliness to kick off So, in a nutshell, my Tesco helmet is probably as safe as Mr Rudy Projects` but my baldy head will sweat more. Is that about right?

Clever Pun

Zombie_donkey wrote:

The price of them amazes me. You can get a motorcycle helmet for what high end ones cost and they must cost more to make.

I got one because I'm totally out of practice on a bike and a bit wobbly to begin with.

I very much doubt the motorcycle helmet has the correct standards to be allowed on the motorway... a proper lid should be well over £250

suzyb

dugliss, why don't you pop back to Tesco and check the label on another one. Check if they adhere to any standard.

lost_in_thought

prb007 wrote:

it'll be law by 2013, then you'll all be sorry - and safer.
Motorbike helmets became law 1973.
Seatbelts in cars; 1983 (1935 in the US!) 1993 in all of EU.
Airbags in cars; 2003

ergo.........2013 - compulsory helmet wear for all!
slightly flawed logic, I know, but I am slightly flawed!

anyhoo, back on topic - seriously, why would you NOT wear a helmet?
a; because you are indestructible
b; because you fancy spending 50 years in a PVS
c; because it's uncool
d; because it's too heavy
e; all of the above

get a grip, get a lid, get it on, get on with your life!

But wait, what became law in 2003? I mean, even your flawed logic is flawed... :P

And I don't wear one because I don't like them. Simple.

I have to say though, it seems pretty clear that they do make you safer in the event of your head hitting the ground. I've never seen any evidence that's convinced me otherwise.

Still not wearing one.

CrackFox

I wear a helmet because I don't like having my barnet styled by the wind. Helmet hair is bad but it's better than looking like you rolled into work on a Van Der Graaf generator.

dugliss

suzyb wrote:

dugliss, why don't you pop back to Tesco and check the label on another one. Check if they adhere to any standard.

That`s not a bad idea but mine is a couple of years old now so although they still look the same they could be manufactured differently

CiB

prb007 wrote:

Why would you NOT wear a helmet?
a; because you are indestructible
b; because you fancy spending 50 years in a PVS
c; because it's uncool
d; because it's too heavy
e; all of the above

a: No
b: No
c: No
d: No
e: No
f: Because for all the claims and counter claims, my experience of riding a bike for 40 years leads me to believe that cycling on quiet country roads does not in itself present enough danger to make it worth taking additional steps to counter this small amount of danger. If I cycled around London, Leicester, Birmingham etc I might be more likely to wear one. Bumpkinsvilleshire though? Nah.

I can carry an elephant gun when cycling near Whipsnade Zoo in case a tiger has escaped, but the likelihood is slim. Likewise cycling in the sticks to my mind doesn't warrant the expense or the faff of wearing one.

There.

I have to add this. The saddest thing I've seen recently was a family friend who we bumped into out on the bikes one afternoon. This bloke, his wife and their two kids (aged about 9 & 11) were all dressed up for a visit to a war zone. Elbow pads, knee pads, thick heavy coats, strong gloves and mighty helmets. All for a summer's ride, on cycle paths, on a pleasant summers evening. These poor kids are being fed the lie that cycling is just so so so dangerous that every effort must be made to make it safe. The poor mites. I don't want to say 'eee in my day...', but well, eee in my day when arrr wurr a lad, we were always falling out of trees, off the combine, off bikes, into the cess-pit once. We came out the other sde unscathed, except maybe for the odd cut & bruise that got better.

That's my problem with helmets. They are largely a solution to a non-existent problem, and they convey the impression that cycling is a big danger when it's not. Not here in the middle of nowhere it isn't.

You live your life, in a state of fear if you prefer. I'll get on with mine. Please refrain from name-calling though.

garrynolan

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I only wear my helmet for two reasons:

If I am involved in an accident, I don't want some dumb ars* lawyer attempting to mitigate blame by stating I was not wearing one

A basic psychology of drivers who appear (IMHO) to give more credence to those cyclists who LOOK experienced and the helmet helps.

There may or may not be aid to be had while wearing one, and I strongly advocate the freedom of choice to do so; but I wear a helmet for the same reasons I wear hi-viz: Perception, perception, perception.

+1 esp. 1st point. Same reason I use lights during the day.