75 mile ride, felt depleated for last 10

birdy247
birdy247 Posts: 454
edited April 2010 in Training, fitness and health
75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

I took as follows:

2 x fig rolls
1 x banana
1 x 750 ml drink with 25g multidextrin
1 x 750ml drink with 50g multidextrin (only drank half)

I felt good, up until the last 10-15 miles when I satrted to feel it. Although i felt my cadence was fine, looking back it had dropped alot from when i started the ride. My HR also dropped off.

Was this due to lack of energy, or my legs not used to this distance/climbing (usually do around 60 miles long rides with slightly less climbing)
www.turbotraining.co.uk

Comments

  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    75 miles on two fig rolls, a banana and just over a litre of fluid...?? Seriously - what do you think the answer might be..?
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Yeah, but I bet they were AWESOME fig rolls.
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    softlad wrote:
    75 miles on two fig rolls, a banana and just over a litre of fluid...?? Seriously - what do you think the answer might be..?

    I could blitz 75 miles on 2 fig roles, a banana and 2 750ml bottles with stuff in. I'd probs have a melted mars bar too.


    Have you done anything over that sort of distance before? It could be that after 60 odd miles you start to drop in performance and that what you need to do is so some more regular 60+ mile rides, vary them, some hilly, some flat, take proper recovery, and get that endurance up.
  • Crimmey
    Crimmey Posts: 207
    training is the answer...If he trains he can do that on nothing. Eating 'correctly' wouldn't have got him much further. Too much emphasis on ride nutrition as a 'quick fix' and not on hard work on these forums. IMO. If your legs dont have 100 miles in them they just dont have 100 miles in them, feed them as much as you like on your ride, you aint doing it - simplified way of thinking.
    Give me a 5 course meal every 5 miles on a marathon I aint completing it, running. Might just be able to walk it.

    Sorry ride nutrition is one of my pet hate topics. Overrated. Massively.
    Blog http://crimmey.blogspot.com/
    Strava http://app.strava.com/athletes/198938
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    Crimmey wrote:
    training is the answer...If he trains he can do that on nothing. Eating 'correctly' wouldn't have got him much further. Too much emphasis on ride nutrition as a 'quick fix' and not on hard work on these forums. IMO. If your legs dont have 100 miles in them they just dont have 100 miles in them, feed them as much as you like on your ride, you aint doing it - simplified way of thinking.
    Give me a 5 course meal every 5 miles on a marathon I aint completing it, running. Might just be able to walk it.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting a five course meal during the ride....

    I would be the last person here to advocate 'sports nutrition', but your legs usually have about two to three hours worth of stored energy - the rest needs to be added as you go along if you want to maintain a decent effort.

    Odd that pro riders train full-time to ride 200km+ races, but they still need a musette handed up to them at least once during the day. Perhaps they should just train more..?
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Crimmey wrote:
    training is the answer...If he trains he can do that on nothing. Eating 'correctly' wouldn't have got him much further. Too much emphasis on ride nutrition as a 'quick fix' and not on hard work on these forums. IMO. If your legs dont have 100 miles in them they just dont have 100 miles in them, feed them as much as you like on your ride, you aint doing it - simplified way of thinking.
    Give me a 5 course meal every 5 miles on a marathon I aint completing it, running. Might just be able to walk it.

    Sorry ride nutrition is one of my pet hate topics. Overrated. Massively.

    Well tbh I think eating at regular intervals does help. If I wanted to go proper hard for 80 miles I'd need about 2 large 100g blocks of flapjack.
  • rake
    rake Posts: 3,204
    find a burger van on route. :lol: someone going to a football match saw the bike and burger and said thats made my day.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Crimmey wrote:
    training is the answer...If he trains he can do that on nothing. Eating 'correctly' wouldn't have got him much further. Too much emphasis on ride nutrition as a 'quick fix' and not on hard work on these forums. IMO. If your legs dont have 100 miles in them they just dont have 100 miles in them, feed them as much as you like on your ride, you aint doing it - simplified way of thinking.
    Give me a 5 course meal every 5 miles on a marathon I aint completing it, running. Might just be able to walk it.

    Sorry ride nutrition is one of my pet hate topics. Overrated. Massively.


    Well - that's just about the dumbest thing I've read today. (By any chance, were you working for Astana last year when Alberto bonked in Paris-Nice? I guess he just didn't have the fitness to ride 100 miles that day) :roll:
  • juankerr
    juankerr Posts: 1,099
    Er.. it's because you're only used to riding 60 miles.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    I took as follows:

    2 x fig rolls
    1 x banana
    1 x 750 ml drink with 25g multidextrin
    1 x 750ml drink with 50g multidextrin (only drank half)

    I felt good, up until the last 10-15 miles when I satrted to feel it. Although i felt my cadence was fine, looking back it had dropped alot from when i started the ride. My HR also dropped off.

    Was this due to lack of energy, or my legs not used to this distance/climbing (usually do around 60 miles long rides with slightly less climbing)

    As already said, it doesn't look like you took on enough carbs for that sort of distance, or indeed fluids..especially as you only drank half of the 2nd bottle. Fluid is probably even more important and no wonder you didn't feel great.

    I'd be interested to know what you ate/drank before the ride as that really isn't a lot of calories, as you're probably doing around 40 per mile.

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?
  • ut_och_cykla
    ut_och_cykla Posts: 1,594
    sampras38 wrote:
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    SNIP

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?

    Not the guy who wrote the above - but your body does keep working even tho' your gycogen stores are flat - it runs on fats and proteins instead. The systems used to provide glucose from these are slower and require more work by the body so you have to slow down.
    Filling up with 'real ' food at this point is probably not helpful as energy is used to digest food - glucose or a long chained variant would help but only if you can absorb as much as you need - say >600kcal an hour direct from food - which I dont think you're body can do. People that ride longer with less food are probably riding well within thier own envelope - thier glycogen stores are spared for much longer. So to feel good for a certain distance you need to ride to spare your own glycogen stores, make sure they are full to start with and top them up as best you can during your ride!
  • phreak
    phreak Posts: 2,953
    A 75 mile ride will probably see you burn through around 3,000 calories or so, in addition to whatever you burn just through normal bodily functions. It's always going to be hard to eat that much on a ride but you should give yourself as much energy as possible.
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    ut_och_cykla wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    SNIP

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?

    Not the guy who wrote the above - but your body does keep working even tho' your gycogen stores are flat - it runs on fats and proteins instead. The systems used to provide glucose from these are slower and require more work by the body so you have to slow down.
    Filling up with 'real ' food at this point is probably not helpful as energy is used to digest food - glucose or a long chained variant would help but only if you can absorb as much as you need - say >600kcal an hour direct from food - which I dont think you're body can do. People that ride longer with less food are probably riding well within thier own envelope - thier glycogen stores are spared for much longer. So to feel good for a certain distance you need to ride to spare your own glycogen stores, make sure they are full to start with and top them up as best you can during your ride!

    I'm sorry but your body does not resort to getting it's energy from fats after the glycogen stores have been depleted. At least not much of it.
  • Rapha
    Rapha Posts: 86
    A few points here:

    Yes your body will start running on fats the longer you ride (glycogen is needed to break the fat up so if you completely run out of glycogen you will just "hit the wall". In running this is even more obvious because you can't just free wheel).

    The more fat you are using for energy the slower that energy will be available to you. Therefore you slow down and its harder to ride strongly.

    So the solution is to be riding on carbs as much as possible., but we actually only have about an hours worth stored in our body. If you ride at lower intensity this will last a little longer.

    In order to feel strong throughout your ride you will need to take on carbohydrates. Ideally as soon as you start riding, or even beforehand because it takes some time to digest. Solid foods are ok but Energy drink and gels will reach your body a lot quicker so unless you feel like your stomach needs solids I would stick to drink and gel. If you know much about the nutrition industry then you will know the High5 Energy Source 2:1 is the Gold standard for energy drinks thanks to the ratio of Maltodextrin to fructose. You can take in as many carbs as you like but your body can only digest so much per hour. For glucose this is 60g per hour, mixed with fructose this goes up to about 90-100g per hour. So instead of 240kcal for a normal energy drink like PSP you can now replace nearly 400kcal per hour. There is loads of information on the High5 website and they have done tests with CyclingWeekly and many other independent studies have shown the same succes for riders using High5.

    There are a lot of other factors that will influence your ride like your fitness, hydration etc. but Nutrition is an important part which shouldn't be forgotten
  • LittleB0b
    LittleB0b Posts: 416
    juankerr wrote:
    Er.. it's because you're only used to riding 60 miles.

    agree - that last bit that's further than you normally go is always harder (or feels harder)
    blog: bellevedere
  • MrChuck
    MrChuck Posts: 1,663
    LittleB0b wrote:
    juankerr wrote:
    Er.. it's because you're only used to riding 60 miles.

    agree - that last bit that's further than you normally go is always harder (or feels harder)

    Dunno, I reckon if you can do 60 then 75 should be well within your range. As far as eating goes I'd almost certainly want more than the OP had for that sort of ride. As someone else points out eating isn't a subsitute for training, but training isn't a substitute for eating either. Those boys on the Pro tours still seem to need to eat.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    softlad wrote:
    75 miles on two fig rolls, a banana and just over a litre of fluid...?? Seriously - what do you think the answer might be..?

    +1...... I'm with softlad what do you.......?

    I would add that mileage is not always the determining factor on how much energy
    you will expend AND need to replenish. Time on the road, weather conditions, intensity of the ride, all add into what you feel like near the end. Not to mention the psychological impact of being ALMOST done. This has stopped more than a few people from finishing a task. Best example of this might be mountain climbers not quite having it in them to make it the extra quarter mile to the summit. Or Julie Moss's spectacular collapse, some years ago, when she had the Hawaii Ironman finish line in sight, for the win, and couldn't make it.
  • ut_och_cykla
    ut_och_cykla Posts: 1,594
    sampras38 wrote:
    ut_och_cykla wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    SNIP

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?

    Not the guy who wrote the above - but your body does keep working even tho' your gycogen stores are flat - it runs on fats and proteins instead. The systems used to provide glucose from these are slower and require more work by the body so you have to slow down.
    Filling up with 'real ' food at this point is probably not helpful as energy is used to digest food - glucose or a long chained variant would help but only if you can absorb as much as you need - say >600kcal an hour direct from food - which I dont think you're body can do. People that ride longer with less food are probably riding well within thier own envelope - thier glycogen stores are spared for much longer. So to feel good for a certain distance you need to ride to spare your own glycogen stores, make sure they are full to start with and top them up as best you can during your ride!

    I'm sorry but your body does not resort to getting it's energy from fats after the glycogen stores have been depleted. At least not much of it.

    Well then everything I learnt at uni about nutrition & stuff was wrong then. Perhaps you could explain where the body DOES get its glucose from when its most readily available source is basically empty - bearing in mind that without glucose in your blood you will black out and perhaps die (like a diabetes sufferer who takes too much insulin). First choice - so I was told is actualy proteins and then fats - both converted by complicated chemical processes into glucose which is teh 'petrol' that runs your engine if you like....
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    sampras38 wrote:
    ut_och_cykla wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    SNIP

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?

    Not the guy who wrote the above - but your body does keep working even tho' your gycogen stores are flat - it runs on fats and proteins instead. The systems used to provide glucose from these are slower and require more work by the body so you have to slow down.
    Filling up with 'real ' food at this point is probably not helpful as energy is used to digest food - glucose or a long chained variant would help but only if you can absorb as much as you need - say >600kcal an hour direct from food - which I dont think you're body can do. People that ride longer with less food are probably riding well within thier own envelope - thier glycogen stores are spared for much longer. So to feel good for a certain distance you need to ride to spare your own glycogen stores, make sure they are full to start with and top them up as best you can during your ride!

    I'm sorry but your body does not resort to getting it's energy from fats after the glycogen stores have been depleted. At least not much of it.

    Yeah - sorry. I'm with the angry mob on this one - your body DOES start to burn off it's fat stores and will also eat through protein for energy ones the glyco is gone.


    (It's one of the ways I dropped 6 stone in 3 months while cycling for several hours a day.)
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Pokerface wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    ut_och_cykla wrote:
    sampras38 wrote:
    birdy247 wrote:
    75 miles ride, with climing as follows +3,039 / -2,882 (corrected elevation on ST)

    SNIP

    For the guy above who blaims it on training. Please answer me this...

    After the first 2 hours or so, once your liver and muscles have depleted their glyocen stores, where do you think your body gets it's energy if you're not eating and drinking enough?

    Not the guy who wrote the above - but your body does keep working even tho' your gycogen stores are flat - it runs on fats and proteins instead. The systems used to provide glucose from these are slower and require more work by the body so you have to slow down.
    Filling up with 'real ' food at this point is probably not helpful as energy is used to digest food - glucose or a long chained variant would help but only if you can absorb as much as you need - say >600kcal an hour direct from food - which I dont think you're body can do. People that ride longer with less food are probably riding well within thier own envelope - thier glycogen stores are spared for much longer. So to feel good for a certain distance you need to ride to spare your own glycogen stores, make sure they are full to start with and top them up as best you can during your ride!

    I'm sorry but your body does not resort to getting it's energy from fats after the glycogen stores have been depleted. At least not much of it.

    Yeah - sorry. I'm with the angry mob on this one - your body DOES start to burn off it's fat stores and will also eat through protein for energy ones the glyco is gone.


    (It's one of the ways I dropped 6 stone in 3 months while cycling for several hours a day.)

    OK, I should have clarified myself a little clearer. Yes the body will go to the fat and protien stores but it will be far more efficient if it's getting the energy from carbohydrates. That was basically my point but explained in a hurry..and badly. I just don't see the point in getting your body to the point where it runs out of carbohydrate. There just isn't an excuse.
  • themightyw
    themightyw Posts: 409
    Pokerface wrote:
    (It's one of the ways I dropped 6 stone in 3 months while cycling for several hours a day.)

    Holy moley! Any thread or blog where you talk about this more? Congrats.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    themightyw wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    (It's one of the ways I dropped 6 stone in 3 months while cycling for several hours a day.)

    Holy moley! Any thread or blog where you talk about this more? Congrats.


    This was about 3 years ago now.

    Before:
    P-DayHamburg029.jpg



    After:
    January.jpg



    Done with a low-carb and low-calorie diet. And lots and lots of cycling!
  • sampras38
    sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    Pokerface wrote:
    themightyw wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    (It's one of the ways I dropped 6 stone in 3 months while cycling for several hours a day.)

    Holy moley! Any thread or blog where you talk about this more? Congrats.


    This was about 3 years ago now.

    Before:
    P-DayHamburg029.jpg



    After:
    January.jpg



    Done with a low-carb and low-calorie diet. And lots and lots of cycling!


    Hat's off to you chap...that's a great achievement..

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