OT: Smoking ban in cars

zanes

Aidy wrote:

zanes wrote:

What's that I hear? The sound of £60 FPNs being issued by the shedload?

Like they did when it was made illegal to use mobile phones in cars?

You make an excellent point, based on the amount of enforcement I see of that one :evil:

daviesee

I agree 100% with all of the OP's points, and I don't smoke either.

Here's the thing,
I said in the mid 90's when they started trying to make smoking socially unacceptable that once they had succeeded they would move onto alcohol. I have seen nothing since to contradict that. In fact I am constantly confirmed.
How do all the non-smoking drinkers feel about that?

Non-drinking, non-smokers feeling smug now?
Don't, because the government won't function without the revenue.
Unless everyone's taxes are raised dramatically :evil:

The future is not looking bright .....................

Moomin23

I think the smoking ban in pubs has probably increased the number of people who prefer now to get a few cheap cans from the ASDA and sit at home smoking where their kids are insteade of being in an adult only environment making decisions for their own health.

Whilst I agree smoking in front of kids is unacceptable, if you want to stink your own car out, that should be up to you. If the concern was really for health reasons, we would put freight back on the rail and get the huge wagons off the road crawling through city centres belching allsorts into the open mouths of an unsuspecting public.

Just another example of the government making decisions for us because they don't believe people have the mental capacity to make lifestyle choices for themselves, personally as a cyclist, I'm more concerned with passive drinking, broken bottles in the road, piles of puke all over the town centre, hospitals overrun on a weekend with drunken injuries and the stench of urine in shop doorways and on the streets. It's perfectly legal to smoke in the park, butmy daughter still has to tiptoe through cans and broken bottles when she wants to get near the swings.We shouldbe more like the French although it pains me to say it, they have their civil liberties and fight for them, unlike the passive British public who moan a bit, then fall in line like good sheep.

lost_in_thought

CiB wrote:

The Mobile Phones ban when driving is largely unenforceable; witness the number of halfwits who we see doing it on any journey. Doesn't make it a bad law.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but I just don't understand this - the mobile phone law clearly doesn't work, it's barely changed anything, so while it's a nice idea it's a cr@ppy law, because hardly anyone's abiding by it.

I begin to wonder whether it's unenforced/unenforceable laws like that one that contribute to the apparent ignorance of any kind of law by some sections of society.

cee

Dudu wrote:

cee wrote:

my feeling is that if you want to ban smoking in private cars and or in the home....then you just ban smoking altogether and criminalise hundreds of thousands of people.

About 13 million people, actually.

yeah couldn't be bothered to find the actual figure....but yeah...loads of people.

Monkeypump

CiB wrote:

Like the guy who I was working with a few years ago, I'd said up front that I'd rather he didn't smoke in my car, so what does do in a traffic jam on the M4? Winds the window halfway down and sparks up. TBH in this situation manners, etiquette, law and the threat of being turfed out onto the hard shoulder wouldn't have had any effect.

Is there a "reading in disbelief" emoticon?

You let him continue smoking? MTFU!

zanes

daviesee wrote:

Here's the thing,
I said in the mid 90's when they started trying to make smoking socially unacceptable that once they had succeeded they would move onto everything else. I have seen nothing since to contradict that. In fact I am constantly confirmed.
.

Fixxored for accuracy

Sewinman

lost_in_thought wrote:

CiB wrote:

The Mobile Phones ban when driving is largely unenforceable; witness the number of halfwits who we see doing it on any journey. Doesn't make it a bad law.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but I just don't understand this - the mobile phone law clearly doesn't work, it's barely changed anything, so while it's a nice idea it's a cr@ppy law, because hardly anyone's abiding by it.

I begin to wonder whether it's unenforced/unenforceable laws like that one that contribute to the apparent ignorance of any kind of law by some sections of society.

There are lots of laws that the police choose not to enforce.


Anyway - obviously a stupid idea, and highly unlikely to get anywhere but lets not allow that to get in the way of a bit of middle England rage! :twisted:

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

This, plus the fact that the proposed ban is intended to protect others in the car

Just to make it clear, the ban isn't proposed to be applied to smoking drivers that are carrying non-smoking passengers. It's to all smoking in every vehicle.

Fair point. I think it would be a pretty useless piece of legislation if passed for all sorts of reasons, I was just making the point that I don't think the intention was to ban smoking for the driver's benefit. As I said, I don't like banning anything, however stupid or self-damaging, but I really, really dislike smoking.

Just as an aside: a few years back during my student holiday job (cleaning in the local hospital) one of the things that was, well, just mind-boggling was seeing the nurses and doctors who worked on the heart & lung ward (full of people dying slowly and painfully from smoking related illnesses) pop outside for a fag break. The addictive properties of nicotine really are quite powerful.

bearfraser

"BIG BROTHER" will soon have cameras and g.p.s. to watch us all in our cars--be affraid be very affraid.
Whats this about the red&black bag???????

lost_in_thought

Sewinman wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

CiB wrote:

The Mobile Phones ban when driving is largely unenforceable; witness the number of halfwits who we see doing it on any journey. Doesn't make it a bad law.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but I just don't understand this - the mobile phone law clearly doesn't work, it's barely changed anything, so while it's a nice idea it's a cr@ppy law, because hardly anyone's abiding by it.

I begin to wonder whether it's unenforced/unenforceable laws like that one that contribute to the apparent ignorance of any kind of law by some sections of society.

There are lots of laws that the police choose not to enforce.


Anyway - obviously a stupid idea, and highly unlikely to get anywhere but lets not allow that to get in the way of a bit of middle England rage! :twisted:

Hopefully not, but the hand-wringing won't-somebody-think-of-the-children target voters will love it. Funny that this should come out on budget day.

And there's a difference between 'can't' and 'won't'.

NatoED

weather it is enforceable or not is a mute point. Most people are law abiding ergo ; most will stop smoking in the cars with children in it. no law can stop things completely but it can reduce problems , we will see a decrease in the amount of smoke filled kiddy wagons if it is made law . as to the home . most families have more than one room that's bigger than 4ft X 6ft X 3ft


i've been in a car while some one tried to spark up . i've never been so scared in my life

sarajoy

W1 wrote:

Indeed - there are plenty of things one shouldn't do in a car when there are others around who object!

Phhhhnnnnrrrrrrttttttt--- oh, sorry.

gert_lush wrote:

really really smokey when you want to sit out in the sunshine, but hey I think i'm turning into a grumpy old man :roll:

No, I also find it very frustrating when sunny beer-gardens or generally outdoor seating areas of a pub stink of the lingering smoke. Sigh.

Someone made a point that you shouldn't need laws for good manners. I agree.

There's a bit of a culture now of 'ban it!' 'I know my rights!' and 'The government should do something!' about allsorts nowadays.

Take some responsibility.

There was a nice pee'd off 5-min presentation about taking responsibility at Ignite Bristol (I did one on the lindy hop) - the videos should be out soon, I'll link the responsibility one back here if I remember and it's as good as I recall.

CiB

Monkeypump wrote:

CiB wrote:

Like the guy who I was working with a few years ago, I'd said up front that I'd rather he didn't smoke in my car, so what does do in a traffic jam on the M4? Winds the window halfway down and sparks up. TBH in this situation manners, etiquette, law and the threat of being turfed out onto the hard shoulder wouldn't have had any effect.

Is there a "reading in disbelief" emoticon?

You let him continue smoking? MTFU!

Derrr - no. But the car had that whiff of someone else's used tobacco for weeks afterwards. The point (badly made) was that the damage was done.

A theme running through the responses suggest that it's up to the individual to choose whether to smoke in their cars and in doing so inflict the effects of tobacco smoke on their passengers regardless of their ages. This assumes that individuals have the knowledge, decency, manners, priorities etc to help them arrive at the right decision. As we're well down the path of semi-educated teenagers begetting semi-educated children that grow up with no real enforcement of right, wrong, manners etc and who then go to beget their own similar-natured offspring, relying on the great British public to do the right thing won't work. A bit of legal assistance might just help.

For the record, I don't care if two or more people in a car, smokers or not agree that smoking is ok. It's the inflicting of it on the vulnerable and those without a voice that bugs me.

Ginjafro

Gregg66 asks:

I'm (sort of) interested to gauge reaction here. Hands up who thinks the inside of a private car is fair game for a ban (and why)?

I've got no problem with such a ban. At least then I may not have to reject a 2nd hand motor on the grounds it stinks or worry about a hire car stinking. Neither, may I have to witness some ignorant pillock chucking their finished fag out of the window whilst on the move.

On a serious child welfare/health & safety point does anybody else agree that a child stuck in a car with a smoking adult is an abuse of that child?

Porgy

While I don;t agree with the general kicking that smokers, drinkers and people who eat "bad" foods seem to get on a daily basis from the media and the government - I'm quite happy to join in with kicking motorists.

It most definitely isn't an extension of the home. It's a dangerous machine in a public space and drivers have the potential to wreck other people's lives. So I'm not going to oppose this - you can park up and smoke if you want. Or walk. Or cycle. Anything that makes the roads safer for non-driving road users will get my support.

and from a personal point of view:

My friend who smokes like a chimney and is starting to feel the effects has just started to talk about giving up because of the pressure put on him at work and on transport - and even in pubs during the winter when it's not much fun standing outside.

My wife - who I was afraid would similarly acquire the poor health of a long-term smoker was pushed into giving up for ever only by the pub and workplace ban a few years ago.

So hurray for that.

In terms of human rights I see it as a very minor issue - noone has a right to do what they like in their car.

rf6

BAN IT!!!

Then ban all the other good things - beer, wine, cider, curries, chocolate....

I know a bloke who doesn't like bikes, so we can ban all those too. Wouldn't want to upset anyone!

Where will it all end? Maybe a law to ban to ill-conceived, unenforcable and over reactionary laws would be a good idea.

We need to get a grip. :twisted:

UndercoverElephant

Being an ex-smoker, I'm amazed when anyone smokes and drives:

Firstly, there are times where wind and inhalation cause red hot ash and smoke to make contact with your eye. This knacks. A lot. It's also rather hard to see out of said eye for some time after.

Secondly, the sticky stuff on your lip is quite variable, and cigarettes have been know to fall out and land on your crotch. Cue much hands off the wheel, trying to pick the damn thing up again action.

Thirdly, why do smokers always throw their buts out of the window? Do they think thy just disappear?

fnegroni

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Smokng is banned in all our company cars and a good thing too. However, a private car is a different matter. As long as your actions are not deletorious to others then you should be allowed to continue them.

Let's see:

- lit fags being constantly thrown out of vehicles in the face of pedestrians and cyclists
- fags littering the ground when thrown out of said vehicle

My dad used to smoke in the car: he never threw the remains of his cigarette, nor the ash, out of his car.
But most people I know (who do smoke) do litter.
The smell of cigarette stays in a car for a long time. For people like me, who suffer from asthma that can be triggered by cigarette smoke, it means essentially a potential asthma attack.
I am in favour of banning smoking in cars: private or not, they are cars, not patios at the back of your garden: you are on the public road, you treat it with respect. You carry passengers, you treat them with respect.

Porgy

rf6 wrote:

BAN IT!!!

Then ban all the other good things - beer, wine, cider, curries, chocolate....

I know a bloke who doesn't like bikes, so we can ban all those too. Wouldn't want to upset anyone!

Where will it all end? Maybe a law to ban to ill-conceived, unenforcable and over reactionary laws would be a good idea.

We need to get a grip. :twisted:

Make it legal to drink wine, beer and cider in cars? what a good idea.

Porgy

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Being an ex-smoker, I'm amazed when anyone smokes and drives:

Firstly, there are times where wind and inhalation cause red hot ash and smoke to make contact with your eye. This knacks. A lot. It's also rather hard to see out of said eye for some time after.

Secondly, the sticky stuff on your lip is quite variable, and cigarettes have been know to fall out and land on your crotch. Cue much hands off the wheel, trying to pick the damn thing up again action.

Thirdly, why do smokers always throw their buts out of the window? Do they think thy just disappear?

I've been in the passenger seat and seen the driver nearly lose control before when a lit cigarette dropped under their seat. It's not a fun experience.

fnegroni

rf6 wrote:

Then ban all the other good things - beer, wine, cider

We need to get a grip. :twisted:

drink driving is so over rated.. :roll:

Agent57

CiB wrote:

Just because is largely unenforceable doesn't make it a bad law.

Hmm, I reckon it does.

greg66_tri_v2.0

fnegroni wrote:

- lit fags being constantly thrown out of vehicles in the face of pedestrians and cyclists

Just the merest soupcon of exaggeration, perhaps?

fnegroni

Greg66 wrote:

fnegroni wrote:

- lit fags being constantly thrown out of vehicles in the face of pedestrians and cyclists

Just the merest soupcon of exaggeration, perhaps?

Care to come on my commute? Then we can discuss...

tailwindhome

NatoED wrote:

weather it is enforceable or not is a mute point.

Moot

holybinch

Another example of how governments (and don't get me started on France) use laws to replace personal responsability.
It is my choice if I want to smoke, drink, eat un-healthy food, do drugs, etc.
As far as I know, it doesn't hurt anyone, does it?
Why does anyone feel the need to make so many people outlaws?!
Surely, it brings some kind of disdain towards the law, and weakens it.

As for the topic: sure, it's bad to smoke in a car with kids.
Smoked (on and off, off at the moment) for the best part of my life (started at 12, now 33) but:
- never smoked in the house I shared with non-smokers
- would never have thought to smoke around my kids, had I had any.

That some people can do the above makes you despair about human nature.
My mum used to smoke in the car when I was a kid, and I hated it.
But it was the 70-80s, I'm not sure she would nowadays.
At the time, it was socially acceptable for pregnant women to smoke and drink, it's not as much nowadays, but still, no one has yet thought about a law to ban smoking/drinking pregnant women?

Anyway as mentioned earlier on, is it the first item on the list as far as cars are concerned?
Just remove cars from cities, that would be a good start.

Then I'd be ready to hear about banning smoking in cars (and it could easily be enforced: smoke detector + unique identifier in every baby seat)

It's all going to end up in another trash campaign "YOU'RE KILLING YOUR BABY!"

rjsterry

UndercoverElephant wrote:

...Thirdly, why do smokers always throw their buts out of the window? Do they think thy just disappear?

I am convinced that smokers think that they do indeed vanish. I was very pleased to see our local street sweeper giving them an earful as I waded through the butts outside my office the other day.

will3

rjsterry wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

...Thirdly, why do smokers always throw their buts out of the window? Do they think thy just disappear?

I am convinced that smokers think that they do indeed vanish. I was very pleased to see our local street sweeper giving them an earful as I waded through the butts outside my office the other day.

Judging by what is in the verges on my way to work, motorists also think that these vanish:

plastic bottles
fag packets
tyres
carlsberg cans
vodka bottles
a fridge
takeaway wrappers
paint tins
solidified plaster
horse feed bags
a rampant rabbit box

rjsterry

Now you really shouldn't use one of those whilst driving :shock: