Bertie changes schedule

frenchfighter

GW has zero credibility.

frenchfighter

So Andy Schleck has now announced he is riding Catalunya, shortly after Contador says he wont be there. Coincidence....

micron

I suppose you could take into account the fact that Watson is official team photographer and writes a blog on their website but no, no connection to team RS at all Quite happy to move on though - would love to debate that social services issue with you but that really is waaaaaay OT.

Schlecklet needs a good win, doesn't he - be interesting to compare and contrast performances. I am enjoying the way that what AC does seems to be dictating the moves of the other key contenders.

And isn't it ironic that LA pulled out of Catalunya to avoid having to face Contador

secretsqirrel

micron wrote:

I suppose you could take into account the fact that Watson is official team photographer and writes a blog on their website but no, no connection to team RS at all

Micron.

I find the Watson thing is quite interesting........

At the risk of asking quite trollish questions..

He was Astana's official photographer during the Bruyneel years, so that is one less paycheque the Kazakh's would have to worry about?

But on a more serious note:-

But what really makes me feel a little uncomfortable about his role, is that he has a very priviledged position, in that he has very close access to the peloton on the move, whilst being on the staff of one of the teams. Surely there is a conflict of interest?

mididoctors

SecretSqirrel wrote:

, in that he has very close access to the peloton on the move, whilst being on the staff of one of the teams. Surely there is a conflict of interest?

if you want to go down that route?

micron

I guess you have to ask who does Watson sell most photos of?

Anyone know where this is being shown? An old friend's supposed to be coming down that weekend but something might have to 'come up' as that MTF just looks too good to miss

dulldave

Moray Gub wrote:

micron wrote:

All part of the Radioshack misinformation campaign one assumes

what evidence do you have to claim this with any kind of authority ? and i am talking about real evidence not the kind of pathetic nonsense you were coming out with last week regarding a facial expressions and the like.

Go look up 'assume' in the dictionary. Then chill out

jimmythecuckoo

I have no issue with GW's work. I think he takes good pictures, but he is clearly not impartial and has his favourite riders and teams.

By that token "Well Phil" and "Well Paul" should be in the same envelope.

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

GW has zero credibility.

Coming from you thats some statement, but apart from that GW has loads of credibilty within the peleton so you really dont know what you are talking about there. Nothing new in that of course.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

I guess you have to ask who does Watson sell most photos of?

Anyone know where this is being shown? An old friend's supposed to be coming down that weekend but something might have to 'come up' as that MTF just looks too good to miss

GW is in the business of selling his work of course he would sell more pics of LA than probably most others i see nothing in that to infer that is evdience of a Radioshack misinformation campaign . A lot of golfing photographers sell more pics of Tiger Woods than other golfers simple economics really.

moray_gub

dulldave wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

micron wrote:

All part of the Radioshack misinformation campaign one assumes

what evidence do you have to claim this with any kind of authority ? and i am talking about real evidence not the kind of pathetic nonsense you were coming out with last week regarding a facial expressions and the like.

Go look up 'assume' in the dictionary. Then chill out

I am perfectly aware what assume means and its perfectly reasoanable to ask if there is any evidence to assume its a misinformation campaign by RS being spouted by GW. Also i dont need to chill out but thanks for your concern anyway.

moray_gub

SecretSqirrel wrote:

But what really makes me feel a little uncomfortable about his role, is that he has a very priviledged position, in that he has very close access to the peloton on the move, whilst being on the staff of one of the teams. Surely there is a conflict of interest?

Are you uncomfortable with Tim Da Waele as well due to his being official photographer with Quick Step and Team Saxobank and having access to the peleton or is this uncomfortable feeling you have you feel just reserved for GW...........or is the real truth that you are not uncomfortbale at all and have never given it a moments thought until now when you realised there is an LA angle to it all..............i think i know which one it is dont you.......

mididoctors

Moray Gub wrote:

SecretSqirrel wrote:

But what really makes me feel a little uncomfortable about his role, is that he has a very priviledged position, in that he has very close access to the peloton on the move, whilst being on the staff of one of the teams. Surely there is a conflict of interest?

Are you uncomfortable with Tim Da Waele as well due to his being official photographer with Quick Step and Team Saxobank and having access to the peloton or is this uncomfortable feeling you have you feel just reserved for GW...........or is the real truth that you are not uncomfortable at all and have never given it a moments thought until now when you realised there is an LA angle to it all..............i think i know which one it is dont you.......

I think that's a fair point ... i think partisan photographers are not something to get over exercised about.

a better line of debate is what kind of things does Tim de Waele say about the riders compared to Graham Watson

micron

I understand he gives riders free copies of his photos of them - but he still needs to make a living and what better way than by milking the cash cow.

Anyway, more important by far - where can I see that great looking 1st stage?

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Since ES are happy to shove a camera up Armstrong's a*se at the drop of a hat, you would imagine they would cover the 'Big Showdown' (though how, in all honesty, AC v LA can be posited as a credible rivalry when one is on such a different level to the other is beyond me)

To be fair though that could be said of Bertie v anybody else in the peleton not just LA , when you combine his climbing and TT ability nobody comes close. This years Tour is a one horse race for yellow and if you look closely at his previous GT wins they have all tended to be tedious affairs lit up only by a juiced up Mexican Chicken and a Cobra. This years will be no different with the real exciting battle coming lower down the order.

thomasmc

So what kind of race will Armstrong look to do?
Will he go full throttle to test himself (& most likely get well dropped by AC on the final climb) or will he give it the old “I’m here working for Levi who is our team leader”

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

Are you uncomfortable with Tim Da Waele as well due to his being official photographer with Quick Step and Team Saxobank and having access to the peloton or is this uncomfortable feeling you have you feel just reserved for GW...........or is the real truth that you are not uncomfortbale at all and have never given it a moments thought until now when you realised there is an LA angle to it all..............i think i know which one it is dont you.......

No-one is uncomfortable with GW's role as a photographer,, whether it be an official one for Radio Shack or not. Same goes for De Waele or whoever else.

But when they giving opinions on other teams and riders, then I think it's fair enough to take those words with a pinch of salt. Fact is, when you start taking (or making) money off the back of one team/rider, then you lose credibility when you start talking about others.

See also Liggett and Sherwen.

micron

Whatever kind of performance he deliver will be spun to suit - and, at the end of the day, with only one objective (the TdF) the media will buy a poor performance here as him simply 'training and peaking for the only race that matters'.

I don't think either man will win it anyway

mididoctors

micron wrote:

I understand he gives riders free copies of his photos of them - but he still needs to make a living and what better way than by milking the cash cow.

Anyway, more important by far - where can I see that great looking 1st stage?

indeed

afx237vi

thomasmc wrote:

So what kind of race will Armstrong look to do?
Will he go full throttle to test himself (& most likely get well dropped by AC on the final climb) or will he give it the old “I’m here working for Levi who is our team leader”

Levi will be in Catalunya. Not sure about Kloden or Horner, but with a MTF and a TT, I'm not really sure how he could claim to be working for anyone else.

dave_1

I hope Taramae is in CT, I am a little surprised we've focused on Voekler's Col De Eze ascent more than Taramae. Had AC waited another 10 seconds the gap he'd have had to kick across to close to Taramae would have left little in him for further surges. Split second decision making by AC was great...but was AC really dominant on Col De Eze? IMO not at all.

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Are you uncomfortable with Tim Da Waele as well due to his being official photographer with Quick Step and Team Saxobank and having access to the peloton or is this uncomfortable feeling you have you feel just reserved for GW...........or is the real truth that you are not uncomfortbale at all and have never given it a moments thought until now when you realised there is an LA angle to it all..............i think i know which one it is dont you.......

No-one is uncomfortable with GW's role as a photographer,, whether it be an official one for Radio Shack or not. Same goes for De Waele or whoever else.

But when they giving opinions on other teams and riders, then I think it's fair enough to take those words with a pinch of salt. Fact is, when you start taking (or making) money off the back of one team/rider, then you lose credibility when you start talking about others.

See also Liggett and Sherwen.

No one apart from Secretquirrel but anyway i think what you are saying there is bullsh*t there are many examples of people in this sport and other sports giving opinions on others when making money out of someone else and nobody bats an eyelid. The fact that there is an LA angle here seems to make many of you say things without giving it any real thought.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Whatever kind of performance he deliver will be spun to suit - and, at the end of the day, with only one objective (the TdF) the media will buy a poor performance here as him simply 'training and peaking for the only race that matters'.

I

Do the media only do this with LA or do they "buy" this with others ?

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

No-one is uncomfortable with GW's role as a photographer,, whether it be an official one for Radio Shack or not. Same goes for De Waele or whoever else.

But when they giving opinions on other teams and riders, then I think it's fair enough to take those words with a pinch of salt. Fact is, when you start taking (or making) money off the back of one team/rider, then you lose credibility when you start talking about others.

See also Liggett and Sherwen.

To be frank thats is bullsh*t there are many examples of people in this sport and other sports giving opinions on others when making money out of someone else and nobody blinks en eyelid. The fact that there is an LA angle here seems to make many of you say things without giving it any real thought.

So because there are other examples of people giving biased and misleading opinions with regards to other sports people, that somehow makes it acceptable for GW to do so?

Uh, MG, the only person pushing an LA angle in this thread is you. Much of what GW wrote in that Tweet is wrong. I think it's fair to point out when someone is wrong, don't you?

andyp

Indeed. Another source of the rumour that Astana haven't been paying wages again is impossible to come by.

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

No-one is uncomfortable with GW's role as a photographer,, whether it be an official one for Radio Shack or not. Same goes for De Waele or whoever else.

But when they giving opinions on other teams and riders, then I think it's fair enough to take those words with a pinch of salt. Fact is, when you start taking (or making) money off the back of one team/rider, then you lose credibility when you start talking about others.

See also Liggett and Sherwen.

To be frank thats is bullsh*t there are many examples of people in this sport and other sports giving opinions on others when making money out of someone else and nobody blinks en eyelid. The fact that there is an LA angle here seems to make many of you say things without giving it any real thought.

So because there are other examples of people giving biased and misleading opinions with regards to other sports people, that somehow makes it acceptable for GW to do so?

Uh, MG, the only person pushing an LA angle in this thread is you. Much of what GW wrote in that Tweet is wrong. I think it's fair to point out when someone is wrong, don't you?

Not every opinion expressed by people making money off others is biased and misleading and Its not unacceptable for GW to give an opinion as you are implying after all you give yours and peope are free to regard it as sh ite or otherwise as they are with GW. My point is not whether GW is right or wrong i couldnt care less what he says but its the implication that just becuase he has links to LA he shouldnt be allowed an opinion and any he does give is nonsense . Id have thought many of you in here would put a bit more thought into why an opinion should be regarded as sh ite .

avoidingmyphd

whether or not astana are paying their wages is not a matter of opinion

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

[
Uh, MG, the only person pushing an LA angle in this thread is you.

Mmm tell that to the first half a dozen posters who mention or allude to LA in their first post in this thread then.

micron

For me it was the outright lie that Astana need a TdF invite - calling that misinformation is charitable.

MG the thing is, the mainstream media don't bother to ask anyone else but Armstrong about their performances in any major race

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

So because there are other examples of people giving biased and misleading opinions with regards to other sports people, that somehow makes it acceptable for GW to do so?

Uh, MG, the only person pushing an LA angle in this thread is you. Much of what GW wrote in that Tweet is wrong. I think it's fair to point out when someone is wrong, don't you?

Not every opinion expressed by people making money off others is biased and misleading and Its not unacceptable for GW to give an opinion as you are implying after all you give yours and peope are free to regard it as sh ite or otherwise as they are with GW. My point is not whether GW is right or wrong i couldnt care less what he says but its the implication that just becuase he has links to LA he shouldnt be allowed an opinion and any he does give is nonsense . Id have thought many of you in here would put a bit more thought into why an opinion should be regarded as sh ite .

Who says GW isn't allowed an opinion? "Lance sure rode a great race today" is an opinion. "Astana are sucking up to the ASO because they need an invite to the TDF" is not an opinion, it is an incorrect statement.

I dunno about you MG, but I look for a reason behind what anyone says, be they photographers, cyclists or politicians. It's called critical thinking. It's quite an important tool in forming your own opinions.