What's the best way to train for a totally flat 10 mile TT..

stonehouse

.....when you live in an area that doesn't have any flat area to train. Around my way you are either going up, or down hill, almost no flat area at all...

Pokerface

stonehouse wrote:

.....when you live in an area that doesn't have any flat area to train. Around my way you are either going up, or down hill, almost no flat area at all...

Then train going uphill. It will make the flat seem easier when you get to it.

Or train on a turbo. Or rollers. Or drive/ride somewhere that is flat. Most TTs have some undulations in them anyway.

stonehouse

Not this one, it's a Nascar oval circuit it has only 8m elevation per lap (7 laps)!

I've found in the past that riding on the flat, at pace was quite different to the hillier rides I was used to. My local 10 mile TT circuit has about 215m of elevation variation, close enough to be relevant?

Pokerface

stonehouse wrote:

Not this one, it's a Nascar oval circuit it has only 8m elevation per lap (7 laps)!

I've found in the past that riding on the flat, at pace was quite different to the hillier rides I was used to. My local 10 mile TT circuit has about 215m of elevation variation, close enough to be relevant?

Then train on a turbo.

stonehouse

Ok, I can do that, so say a 10-15 minute warmup, then 30 minutes at 80-85% HR (no power meter) keeping the speed pretty much constant? The best track times are around 19.7 minutes (not that I'll get anywhere near that). Or should I stick with the 2 x 20 I've been doing once a week (amongst other routines) for a while now?

Pokerface

Just waiting for one of the TT boffins to step in here and give some useful advice.

SBezza

For a 10 m TT I would guess your HR will be higher than 80-85% MHR. For getting the best from a 10m TT I guess you would do the classic 2 x 20 min at around threshold pace, you might want to do some harder paced 5 min intervals as well.

If you have no way of measuring power, I would try and set the turbo up the same each time, and go via gearing /cadence, or via rear wheel speed, if you can do that. Test yourself with a 20 minute test, to see what sort of speed you average, and then try doing your 20 min intervals just below this.

Even practising on your local 10m TT circuit will be good, surely if you get good at pacing on this, then going to a flat course means you should be able to do a faster time. You will still have to pace a 10m TT, you can't go off like a bullet and expect to hold on.

stonehouse

Currently my training regime (such that it is) consists of a combination of Sufferfest decending intervals, a couple of DVD's that I follow the on screen prompts (rides series), aerobic sessions and 2 x 20's. And whenever I can get out on the road of course.

My max HR seems to be about 184 bpm, looking at my Garmin traces from when I've blown up on the road previously (uphill sprints).

For the sufferfest vids, I pull a gear that I can just about manage for the first 5 minute interval, that normally just gets me through the whole work out, which equates to a max HR of about 172 bpm. For the aerobic sessions I aim for 145 bpm, rising to 155 over the session. For the 2 x 20's I'm usually up around 166 bpm rising to 172.

On the local 10 mile TT course my Garmin tells me that I'm pretty much the same as the 2 x 20's, 166, rising to 176. I usually try to keep below 175, as that's the point where I start to blow up!

The reason I asked about training for a flat circuit comes from the Sportive I rode last year. It had a flat section of about 15 miles in the middle, I found that quite different to the undulating terrain that I had been used to (worked my glutes quite hard). Having said that I've done a lot more turbo work since then which has had the effect that I'm much better on the flat now but crap on the hills!

SBezza

I would try and increase the HR at which you "blow up". I guess you mean when your legs really start burning. This is likely to be your Lactate Threshold HR, and there are sessions you can do to increase this. Might have to have a search around.

The Max HR I have seen in a 10m TT is 185bpm, and when I do a 2 x 20 min session ave HR is around 169 bpm, and a max of 179/180 bpm. With a 2 x 20 min, you want to forget HR really and either go by speed, power or gearing/cadence, and try to increase these over time. I do mine to power, so only look at HR afterwards.

If you stay at the same pace over a few months, then you are not getting as good a work out, as you will get fitter and stronger, so the pace needs to increase over time.

stonehouse

By saying blowup, that's the point when my lungs are turning inside out and I feel that if I continue I'm likely to pass out, it's rare that my legs give up before my lungs. I suppose I should mention that I'm 49, so hence my max rate isn't that high.

On the 2 x 20's I've been gradually adding gear, seems to work out to about 1tooth per two weeks. I usually keep my cadence around the 90 rpm mark (hence the gradually rising HR) which seems to work for me. So I guess I continue with the 2 x 20's and ignore the HR on that workout, just keep increasing the load?

onthefells

sorry to butt in but seems to be some very sensible advice on here so thought I'd ask a question.

I am an ex-runner (knee injury so been cycling 'properly' only 6-12 months) i was a decent level club runner, 18 mins 10k, 62 mins 10 miles were recent times so have a fairly good aerobic base.

I find my thighs are 'getting tired' long before my breathing gets heavy and guess my bike 'leg strength' is way below my aerobic capacity. How do I increase leg strength? I've done a few big gear rides and a few interval sessions 6x5 mins, 3x 10 mins etc. But even on these I can't get my heart rate that high as my legs 'give way' first. Will that do the job over time or should I be doing leg weights or have you any ideas on better sessions to get my leg strength up?

cheers

SBezza

stonehouse wrote:

By saying blowup, that's the point when my lungs are turning inside out and I feel that if I continue I'm likely to pass out, it's rare that my legs give up before my lungs. I suppose I should mention that I'm 49, so hence my max rate isn't that high.

On the 2 x 20's I've been gradually adding gear, seems to work out to about 1tooth per two weeks. I usually keep my cadence around the 90 rpm mark (hence the gradually rising HR) which seems to work for me. So I guess I continue with the 2 x 20's and ignore the HR on that workout, just keep increasing the load?

Well it seem you are going the right way in terms of getting stronger, I must admit I feel the legs hurting before struggling with breathing, I guess we are all different.

stonehouse

Perhaps you could ship over those good lungs of yours for me watch out for big gear rides, they can be knee killers. Sounds like you are doing the right kind of workouts, just need to keep going, build up the bike legs.

I also alternate between bike workouts an hour of knee strengthening exercises, usually means I'm training 6 days a week which can be a challenge.

SBezza

onthefells wrote:

sorry to butt in but seems to be some very sensible advice on here so thought I'd ask a question.

I am an ex-runner (knee injury so been cycling 'properly' only 6-12 months) i was a decent level club runner, 18 mins 10k, 62 mins 10 miles were recent times so have a fairly good aerobic base.

I find my thighs are 'getting tired' long before my breathing gets heavy and guess my bike 'leg strength' is way below my aerobic capacity. How do I increase leg strength? I've done a few big gear rides and a few interval sessions 6x5 mins, 3x 10 mins etc. But even on these I can't get my heart rate that high as my legs 'give way' first. Will that do the job over time or should I be doing leg weights or have you any ideas on better sessions to get my leg strength up?

cheers

Over time your legs will get stronger, unfortunately running and cycling use the muscles in different way. Threshold sessions are probably the best way to go, so 2 x 20 min, or even the 10-15 min intervals. One of the coaches might come along and give you more advice, but it takes time on the bike to build cycling strength.

Pokerface

onthefells wrote:

sorry to butt in but seems to be some very sensible advice on here so thought I'd ask a question.

I am an ex-runner (knee injury so been cycling 'properly' only 6-12 months) i was a decent level club runner, 18 mins 10k, 62 mins 10 miles were recent times so have a fairly good aerobic base.

I find my thighs are 'getting tired' long before my breathing gets heavy and guess my bike 'leg strength' is way below my aerobic capacity. How do I increase leg strength? I've done a few big gear rides and a few interval sessions 6x5 mins, 3x 10 mins etc. But even on these I can't get my heart rate that high as my legs 'give way' first. Will that do the job over time or should I be doing leg weights or have you any ideas on better sessions to get my leg strength up?

cheers

If your legs are getting tired way before you struggle with breathing, then you are probably pushing too big a gear.

Use a lower gear (easier), but spin faster. It will work your cardio system more.

I doubt your 'leg strength' is the problem at all.

stonehouse

Well it seem you are going the right way in terms of getting stronger, I must admit I feel the legs hurting before struggling with breathing, I guess we are all different.

That's the problem with training advise I guess! No, lungs were the reason I started cycling this time last year, doc tested my breathing capability after I had recovered from a couple of nasty chest infections, said that I had a breathing capability of a 76 year old :shock: So almost without exception I run out of lungs first, legs only go if I've ridden hard two days in a row, even then it's marginal. Just looking for challenges and noticed that they run time trials on the local Nascar circuit I'll be visiting in August, thought I'd give it a go, but want to be in the best shape I can be in front of the yanks

onthefells

thanks for all that.

the point about pushing too high a gear is an interesting one and one I'd not really thought about, maybe higher cadence lower gear would be better...however my cadence is round 80-90 anyway which I thought was about right.

which brings me to another newbie question. I have a compact chainset and I printed a gear ratio chart off. am I better off being in the bigger ring and one of the bigger cogs on the cassette or the smaller ring and one of the smaller cogs on the cassette? eg the 50/21 has almost the same ratio as the 34/14...which is the more efficient to use or is there no real difference?

cheers

chaffordred

onthefells wrote:

i was a decent level club runner, 18 min 10k

Congratulations. You just broke the world record by more 8 minutes

Pokerface

onthefells wrote:

thanks for all that.

the point about pushing too high a gear is an interesting one and one I'd not really thought about, maybe higher cadence lower gear would be better...however my cadence is round 80-90 anyway which I thought was about right.

which brings me to another newbie question. I have a compact chainset and I printed a gear ratio chart off. am I better off being in the bigger ring and one of the bigger cogs on the cassette or the smaller ring and one of the smaller cogs on the cassette? eg the 50/21 has almost the same ratio as the 34/14...which is the more efficient to use or is there no real difference?

cheers

Use whichever gearing that gives you the straightest chain. 50/21 pull the chain sideways while 34/14 should be a straighter line. Better for the bike!

However - in a TT - it's best to stay in the big ring and use the gears as needed. If you are going fast - you'll be in your biggest gear most of the time anyway.

hopper1

chaffordred wrote:

onthefells wrote:

i was a decent level club runner, 18 min 10k

Congratulations. You just broke the world record by more 8 minutes

'swhat I thought!...