Probably stupid - but how to improve sprinting power?
Pokerface
Posts: 7,960
OK - I suffer from a serious lack of low-end power. So every time the race comes to a corner and everyone goes flying out the other side, I'm always left behind.
So - those who KNOW - how to improve this aspect of my racing?
I guess the obvious thing is to just practice it - riding down the road and do 15 second jumps, etc?
Would gym work help with this at all?
I can keep up with the bunch during races no problem. But need help to stay with them out of corners! Please help. :oops:
So - those who KNOW - how to improve this aspect of my racing?
I guess the obvious thing is to just practice it - riding down the road and do 15 second jumps, etc?
Would gym work help with this at all?
I can keep up with the bunch during races no problem. But need help to stay with them out of corners! Please help. :oops:
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Gym work will help for sure.
Leg press doing 3 sets of 30 using a single leg at a time.
Squats building up in weight.
Military squats lots of building up in weight.
Also use Maximuscle Cyclone for one month while using a good weight program .
You will see the results with your power tap through Watts produced.0 -
Are you sure it's "sprinting power" that's letting you down, and not simply a technique issue - being in the wrong gear, or letting speed drop too much in the corner, leaving you late etc. ?
I don't get dropped out of a corner and I never need to put anything like my peak power to stay with / make up spots on the group, so I'm not sure really improving your peak power - which the weights may do - will make a huge difference.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
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jibberjim wrote:Are you sure it's "sprinting power" that's letting you down, and not simply a technique issue - being in the wrong gear, or letting speed drop too much in the corner, leaving you late etc. ?
I don't get dropped out of a corner and I never need to put anything like my peak power to stay with / make up spots on the group, so I'm not sure really improving your peak power - which the weights may do - will make a huge difference.
Yeah - but my peak power is only 750W (don't forget I only have one leg!).
I know what to do coming out of the corner - and I'm definitely being passed by everyone! I'm always int he right gear and right place. Just can't keep up!0 -
Sprints both seated and out of saddle, from slow pace and normal pace. Standing starts. Flat terrain, slightly downhill and uphill efforts.
6-8 seconds for the snap work - can do lots of these in a session. Any gear but start with smaller gears and work your way up.
10-15 seconds for the drive but probably can't do quite so many.
20+ seconds for the anaerobic development if that's needed but you end up doing far fewer of these.
Gym ranks a fair way down the list of training needed to improve general sprinting, especially for a roadie (and I would caution on what you would do given prosthetic). Not ruling it out but far better to do sprint efforts on the bike.
Best training by far are sprints and accelerations on the bike as this is specific to the joint angles, forces and velocities engaged in sprinting, none of which are replicated by any gym equipment.
that's the physiological - as others have said, work on ways to minimise the need to do such efforts through better positioning, think ahead, improved cornering etc0 -
Pokerface wrote:
Yeah - but my peak power is only 750W (don't forget I only have one leg!).
I know what to do coming out of the corner - and I'm definitely being passed by everyone! I'm always int he right gear and right place. Just can't keep up!
I have a similar peak power, so you aren't the only one.
I stick to TTs where this isn't a problem
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"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
Thanks Alex - I will concentrate more on these types of drills. I assume it will also help with overall fitness.0
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Chris Boardman didn't have that much more either.nmcgann wrote:Pokerface wrote:
Yeah - but my peak power is only 750W (don't forget I only have one leg!).
I know what to do coming out of the corner - and I'm definitely being passed by everyone! I'm always int he right gear and right place. Just can't keep up!
I have a similar peak power, so you aren't the only one.
I stick to TTs where this isn't a problem0 -
It's mostly a neuromuscular benefit. But you can do some sprint work 1/2 times per week without much impact to your normal training - it can be part of another ride. If possible do it with someone else for motivation and safety. Choose venues carefully.Pokerface wrote:Thanks Alex - I will concentrate more on these types of drills. I assume it will also help with overall fitness.
The thing with sprint power though is it responds well to freshness and is quickly dulled by fatigue, so don't do them after a hard day or on a hard day.0 -
When I'm going flat out in a sprint out of a corner - and am getting passed by EVRYONE - including the girls and juniors in the same race, then I don't think it's just a matter of poor positioning or gear selection! :oops: :oops:
A little more power will help - but I think the ability to repeat the effort, lap after lap (in some cases at least 3 times a lap x 22 laps) is just as important.0 -
Hi Pokerface.
All the stuff above re sprint drills is good advice, but if you're problem is getting dropped out of corners then I'd look at it from a different perspective.
A big part of road racing is figuring out how to stay with the bunch while expending the least amount of energy. If train yourself to be able to perform 600w sprints out of every corner, all well and good, but how can you minimise that number?
Unless you are at or near the front of the bunch, it's very likely that you will not be cornering as fast as you could if you were on your own - you have to slow down more than you'd want because the riders in front brake.
What I do in this situation is to deliberately open up a bike length's gap by easing up before the guy in front brakes, then try to nail the corner faster than the rider in front so as that gap is closed again as we exit the corner. If you've got greater exit speed then you'll not need to jump as hard.
The earlier you start to sprint out of that corner, the less hard you need to sprint as well. There's no need to wait until you've straightened up - you can start sprinting when you're still well banked over - the quicker you're up to speed and back on that wheel in front the better. I learnt this riding grass track where most of the circuit is corner, and none of it is banked...
One last thing for you to consider is that the riders up front well know that stringing it out into corners and jumping hard out of them makes life very difficult for those at the back of the concertina - it's a deliberate tactic to wear down the weaker riders. It is worth expending some energy to keep in the front third of the bunch in order not to get too strung out. You're also less likely to get caught behind someone who can't hold the wheel in front and opens a gap.
So - stay near the front, give yourself space to nail the corners and sprint early!
Cheers, Andy0 -
Andy - all sound advice. All which I am aware of.
One of the biggest problems I had yesterday was trying to GET to the front!! We're talking about a field of 100 riders and not a lot of tarmac to deal with. Very tricky to try and get through that mess of riders to get to the front before the next corner. You only get a minute maximum from the previous turn.
I was up and hammering it as soon as I rounded the apex of the turn. No waiting around for me!
I tried to go around the outside of the bunch to get near the front. Me and 20 other riders or so!
Maybe with less riders it will be a little easier to move around.
I'll keep at it and work at getting to the front sooner.
Thanks for the tips and advice (everyone). Much appreciated.0 -
Pokerface wrote:jibberjim wrote:Are you sure it's "sprinting power" that's letting you down, and not simply a technique issue - being in the wrong gear, or letting speed drop too much in the corner, leaving you late etc. ?
I don't get dropped out of a corner and I never need to put anything like my peak power to stay with / make up spots on the group, so I'm not sure really improving your peak power - which the weights may do - will make a huge difference.
Yeah - but my peak power is only 750W (don't forget I only have one leg!).
I know what to do coming out of the corner - and I'm definitely being passed by everyone! I'm always int he right gear and right place. Just can't keep up!
You're joking right? You had 2 on the ride last Sunday....
I'd say lots of hills and trying to power up em will help, that's all I do and I rekon that helps me, when I go round corners I get dropped on the corners but can easily get back on the bunch. Yeh, am sure hills give sprinting a boost.0 -
100 riders? The max in a race is 80 where was that?
Some people will never be an out andout sprinter as it is also about genetics and the proportion of fast twitch fibres in muscles, these cannot be increased and reduce with age.
You can inprove with training but there will be a limit.
I would not try to use max power out of corners as you will eventually get dropped as you cannot do many max efforts in a day.
Others have given good adavice how to improve cornering, also look for the best guys, to follow i.e the ones who dont takke stupid lines, then brake, and sprint out of bend, look for the smoother guys who will go one pace round bends.
I dont panic if a gap opens in front, and sometimes just let some one else pass me and gradually I will be in line again with less effort exurted then move uo the bunch from there again rather than slow/sprint/slow/spring all the time.
I watched Jody Cundy training, I am sure you know he has leg missing, his sprint times are better than most able bodies sprinters.0 -
Get to the front on the line before the race starts. Don't mull about at the back.Pokerface wrote:I'll keep at it and work at getting to the front sooner.0 -
oldwelshman wrote:I watched Jody Cundy training, I am sure you know he has leg missing, his sprint times are better than most able bodies sprinters.
Jody has one leg also. But is only good for events that last 2 minutes or less. He has no chance in a road race.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Get to the front on the line before the race starts. Don't mull about at the back.Pokerface wrote:I'll keep at it and work at getting to the front sooner.
Yup, tried that too. In fact, I was lined up first in line, dead centre at the start of the race.
Everyone sprinted off the line and I was already pushed back by the first corner.
Again, will work on positioning and fighting earlier on for a place near the front of the group. Some extra effort in the opening stages might mean less effort later on.0 -
Yes but you quoted your max power as 750 watts, Jody's is porbably about 1500w or more, thats the point I am making do you waant to be a sprinter or endurance rider, very different attributes and sprinters have much higher concentration of fast twitch fibres then endurance riders, you probably have more slow twitch fibres so will never make a sprinter as such but may improve a bit with training.Pokerface wrote:oldwelshman wrote:I watched Jody Cundy training, I am sure you know he has leg missing, his sprint times are better than most able bodies sprinters.
Jody has one leg also. But is only good for events that last 2 minutes or less. He has no chance in a road race.0 -
You do sprint work so that you are the best sprinter of the break group that you are in. If it's just you, that's easy. Much easier to beat a handful of guys than a large bunch.0
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oldwelshman wrote:
Yes but you quoted your max power as 750 watts, Jody's is porbably about 1500w or more, thats the point I am making do you waant to be a sprinter or endurance rider, very different attributes and sprinters have much higher concentration of fast twitch fibres then endurance riders, you probably have more slow twitch fibres so will never make a sprinter as such but may improve a bit with training.Pokerface wrote:oldwelshman wrote:I watched Jody Cundy training, I am sure you know he has leg missing, his sprint times are better than most able bodies sprinters.
Jody has one leg also. But is only good for events that last 2 minutes or less. He has no chance in a road race.
I don't want to be a 1500w sprinter. Well, I DO, but I'm also realistic. Just looking to add 100w - and be able to repeat it several times. Or 40 times.
Mostly probably just need to improve my overall fitness. Either that or stop trying to race against able-bodied athletes.
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You probably already know this but, when you are at the front of the bunch you don't have to break as much as the ones behind, so the guys at the back enter the corners a lot slower than the one's near the front.
As for the juniors going past you, get used to it, they are a bunch of fit feckers, especially when they are half your age and more!0 -
Are you sure you're in the right gear. I always find its a bit easier to acclerate out of the corner and it not feel like a full effort sprint if you're not in too big a gear, i.e. keep the cadence high
I also agree with letting a little gap open and the fact that the further back you are, the harder you have to work because its the back of the bunch that has bring the bunch back together if it strings out round the corners.
If you're circuit racing, consider trying taking a few different positions in the bunch around corners and see if any of them put you in a better position for either sprinting out of that corner, gaining a few easy places or setting you up for a better line through the next (assuming you are in a bunch a few riders wide so have to hold a position rather than taking the fastest possible line through a corner). The shortest route isn't necessarily the quickest0
