It's not just motorist I think cyclist need to be made aware
DonDaddyD
Posts: 12,689
Today Kennington road, guy on a hybrid, riding along the road no hands.
We are approaching the lights, he is ahead of me and I'm staying way back just incase he drops.
The lights are red and have been for a time, he makes his way to the ASL. To our right is a big massive articulated lorry, it's indicating left.
I'm not passing the lorry, even in front of it I can't guarantee he can see me - its too big. (Yes there is an argument that HGVs should be banned from the capital, but they aren't. We have to accept that, for now and be aware of their danger - don't play with the big kids).
As the lights go green the cyclist hasn't made it to the ASL (really he had no urgency) and is just about in the blind-spot-death-wheel-crushing-zone as the lorry starts to turn left - all this at the same time. I'm thinking I don't want to see this again, its going to happen and I freeze. The guy still no hands finally holds his handle bars and peddels out of the zone. He survived only because the lorry emergency stopped. How the lorry saw him I don't know, I don't think he did, I think he saw me.
The contempt of the cyclist was unforgivable. Had that had been a collision I would have made it clear to the police that it was not the drivers fault as there was no way he could have seen the cyclist.
As for the cyclist, past the lights he starts riding no hands and swerves into the right lane right in front of traffic trying to overtake him and they have to brake sharply.
Two incidents in quick succession potentially caused by the cyclist.
This all made me think, while we harp on about motorists not checking their mirrors and just careless driving. We should also look at ourselves as cyclist to assess that we aren't at risk of ruining lives while on the road.
We are approaching the lights, he is ahead of me and I'm staying way back just incase he drops.
The lights are red and have been for a time, he makes his way to the ASL. To our right is a big massive articulated lorry, it's indicating left.
I'm not passing the lorry, even in front of it I can't guarantee he can see me - its too big. (Yes there is an argument that HGVs should be banned from the capital, but they aren't. We have to accept that, for now and be aware of their danger - don't play with the big kids).
As the lights go green the cyclist hasn't made it to the ASL (really he had no urgency) and is just about in the blind-spot-death-wheel-crushing-zone as the lorry starts to turn left - all this at the same time. I'm thinking I don't want to see this again, its going to happen and I freeze. The guy still no hands finally holds his handle bars and peddels out of the zone. He survived only because the lorry emergency stopped. How the lorry saw him I don't know, I don't think he did, I think he saw me.
The contempt of the cyclist was unforgivable. Had that had been a collision I would have made it clear to the police that it was not the drivers fault as there was no way he could have seen the cyclist.
As for the cyclist, past the lights he starts riding no hands and swerves into the right lane right in front of traffic trying to overtake him and they have to brake sharply.
Two incidents in quick succession potentially caused by the cyclist.
This all made me think, while we harp on about motorists not checking their mirrors and just careless driving. We should also look at ourselves as cyclist to assess that we aren't at risk of ruining lives while on the road.
Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Comments
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Yup.
Of course today I've come back to work, explained what has happened to me - and the stories of the rather less well-behaved cyclists come out.
OK, so many cyclists go through red lights when they know it's safe given the signal order - but rules are rules - and when the lights are red, a cyclist going through them makes drivers see even more red.
I don't like cyclists like the one you describe, just being a plain stupid tosspot.
I don't like the commuters who do everything they can to skip lights and other rules of the road (including as was mentioned today at work, those who jump up onto pavements to skip lights at junctions).
I wonder how many of us do actually follow all the rules? Even if it's a majority that behave, drivers will still see several numpty cyclists who make them angry about all of us.
They get angry because they don't actually want to kill or hurt anyone, and it's very frightening when someone gets close to putting themselves under your wheels.
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Makes you wonder if having sort of easily readable registration mark on a bicyle is a good idea.
At least you could then identify the offenders and report them to the authorities. However, the authorities probably would not do anything unless an incident actually occurred.0 -
Ho hum wrote:Makes you wonder if having sort of easily readable registration mark on a bicyle is a good idea.
At least you could then identify the offenders and report them to the authorities. However, the authorities probably would not do anything unless an incident actually occurred.
coz that works so well with cars doesn;t it :roll:0 -
As with all things in life, if you fit into a group it only takes one or two muppets to stand out and get every one else tared with the same brush.
Not all BMW drivers are t0ssers just like we are not all the same. I ride and drive to what I know is correct, I can only hope my example is enough to change other peoples attitudes and preconceptions.0 -
will3 wrote:Ho hum wrote:Makes you wonder if having sort of easily readable registration mark on a bicyle is a good idea.
At least you could then identify the offenders and report them to the authorities. However, the authorities probably would not do anything unless an incident actually occurred.
coz that works so well with cars doesn;t it :roll:
Imagine what the roads would be like if cars did not have registration plates though...0 -
I have to admit, the temptation to ride on the outside of him and deliver a heart shove would've been almost over-whelming.
I'm not saying I would of course, but the thought of the splintery crunch bang....
Am I evil? :twisted:Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
Don't think making him "aware" would have made any difference. I'm sure if you had told him you would have just got a "F*** You" in return. You just have to live with the fact that assholes will always be around.0
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ince wrote:As with all things in life, if you fit into a group it only takes one or two muppets to stand out and get every one else tared with the same brush.
Not all BMW drivers are t0ssers just like we are not all the same. I ride and drive to what I know is correct, I can only hope my example is enough to change other peoples attitudes and preconceptions.
The problem is it isn't 1 or 2, there are loads I see daily that have no respect for road rules whatsoever or other road users (including fellow cyclists). Yes we all make mistakes, but these are people who just dont seem to care.
My fave gripe at the moment is cyclists who weave from left to right with significant variance which makes overtaking interesting, it is apparent when you come into Shepherd's Bush going towards Acton on the far right lane, you always get someone going 5mph on rusty old bikes weaving from left to right in the lane...0 -
Natural selection should hopefully weed them out over time
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Ho hum wrote:will3 wrote:Ho hum wrote:Makes you wonder if having sort of easily readable registration mark on a bicyle is a good idea.
At least you could then identify the offenders and report them to the authorities. However, the authorities probably would not do anything unless an incident actually occurred.
coz that works so well with cars doesn;t it :roll:
Imagine what the roads would be like if cars did not have registration plates though...
I think people should have license plates so that crimes would be easier to solve.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:Ho hum wrote:will3 wrote:Ho hum wrote:Makes you wonder if having sort of easily readable registration mark on a bicyle is a good idea.
At least you could then identify the offenders and report them to the authorities. However, the authorities probably would not do anything unless an incident actually occurred.
coz that works so well with cars doesn;t it :roll:
Imagine what the roads would be like if cars did not have registration plates though...
I think people should have license plates so that crimes would be easier to solve.
They do, don't they?
It's called DNA...0 -
Always Tyred wrote:I think people should have license plates so that crimes would be easier to solve.
Isn't it called DNA?
EDIT: DAMN my slow typing!
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Just out of interest, have any of you guys taken Bikeability training?
I teach it for a living and non-cyclists are always surprised to hear that cycle training is even available. What with many cyclists never having been taught to drive, it's not really surprising that some of them haven't got a clue what they're doing.0 -
Someone mentioned today at work the age old 'they should pay road tax' argument, of course I countered with the fact it's currently based on emissions, so I'd pay nothing anyway... Unless I'd had a big curry the night before...
..anyway another person also mentioned the licence plates, from age 16 maybe. I mean, it would help catch tosspots, but it'd have to be fairly big to read from a distance - and where would that go?0 -
AndyOgy wrote:Just out of interest, have any of you guys taken Bikeability training?
I teach it for a living and non-cyclists are always surprised to hear that cycle training is even available. What with many cyclists never having been taught to drive, it's not really surprising that some of them haven't got a clue what they're doing.
That's quite an interesting point.
Maybe ALL cyclists should have at least some basic training before they are allowed on the roads?
Maybe make it part of the national cirriculum at school?
My daughter has just done some basic training at her school and she is 10 years old.0 -
sarajoy wrote:Someone mentioned today at work the age old 'they should pay road tax' argument, of course I countered with the fact it's currently based on emissions, so I'd pay nothing anyway... Unless I'd had a big curry the night before...
..anyway another person also mentioned the licence plates, from age 16 maybe. I mean, it would help catch tosspots, but it'd have to be fairly big to read from a distance - and where would that go?
NO ONE PAYS ROAD TAX
Ahem
*cough*
sorry...Chunky Cyclists need your love too! :-)
2009 Specialized Tricross Sport
2011 Trek Madone 4.5
2012 Felt F65X
Proud CX Pervert and quiet roadie. 12 mile commuter0 -
Ho hum wrote:AndyOgy wrote:Just out of interest, have any of you guys taken Bikeability training?
I teach it for a living and non-cyclists are always surprised to hear that cycle training is even available. What with many cyclists never having been taught to drive, it's not really surprising that some of them haven't got a clue what they're doing.
That's quite an interesting point.
Maybe ALL cyclists should have at least some basic training before they are allowed on the roads?
Maybe make it part of the national cirriculum at school?
My daughter has just done some basic training at her school and she is 10 years old.
We all did cycling proficiency at my primary school.
I don't remember anyone in my class missing out - it was done during the school day, revising and taking the road-sign test, an obstacle course (with emergency stop), and a test on what to do at certain junctions etc.
Even got a free children's highway code book. I was about 10 or 11 too, this would have been 1994 maybe earlier.0 -
I did do Cycling Proficiency at school but it was optional. Less that 25% of the kids in my year took part in it.
Bikeability Level 1 is the national qualification closest to 'Cycling Proficiency' but it's mostly just cones on a playground/field. Level 2 takes in some real road situations in low traffic areas. It covers, in great detail, things like positioning and advanced observational skills.
When I took Cycling Proficiency at school, nothing was mentioned about primary/secondary positions or anything like that. It was mostly just making sure that we could start, stop and balance. The course was run by the primary school teachers, who didn't actually have any qualification to teach cycling.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:The contempt of the cyclist was unforgivable. Had that had been a collision I would have made it clear to the police that it was not the drivers fault as there was no way he could have seen the cyclist.
As for the cyclist, past the lights he starts riding no hands and swerves into the right lane right in front of traffic trying to overtake him and they have to brake sharply.
Two incidents in quick succession potentially caused by the cyclist.
I'm sure the tw@t is being paid by the Daily Mail /Evening Standard to behave like that to give us all a bad name! I'm sure of it! 0 -
sarajoy wrote:We all did cycling proficiency at my primary school.
I don't remember anyone in my class missing out - it was done during the school day, revising and taking the road-sign test, an obstacle course (with emergency stop), and a test on what to do at certain junctions etc.
Even got a free children's highway code book. I was about 10 or 11 too, this would have been 1994 maybe earlier.
We all did at mine, too. My sister didn't when she came to it later, but only because she couldn't really ride a bike.
That said, I suspect that many don't, and some could do with a refresher. I'm not sure that's something that should be enforced, so much as encouraged, though.0 -
AndyOgy wrote:Just out of interest, have any of you guys taken Bikeability training?
I teach it for a living and non-cyclists are always surprised to hear that cycle training is even available. What with many cyclists never having been taught to drive, it's not really surprising that some of them haven't got a clue what they're doing.
Bikeability isn't available in Scotland and I have just checked out your website and it looks pretty good, shame.0 -
sarajoy wrote:..anyway another person also mentioned the licence plates, from age 16 maybe. I mean, it would help catch tosspots, but it'd have to be fairly big to read from a distance - and where would that go?
Won't someone think of the aerodynamics!
Bottom line is there are to$$ers in every walk of life. Sadly this government thinks legislation is the answer to everything - take dangerous dogs, a small number of scum are illegally breeding dogs for fighting/looking hard/whatever so now the government is suggesting all dogs should be chipped... my only concern is that some bright spark actually does push through the idea of cyclists registration plates or enforced cycle/traffic segregation.
Perhaps it's time to start having a word with these to$$ers again before they f*ck things up for all of us...- 2023 Vielo V+1
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Aidy wrote:sarajoy wrote:We all did cycling proficiency at my primary school.
I don't remember anyone in my class missing out - it was done during the school day, revising and taking the road-sign test, an obstacle course (with emergency stop), and a test on what to do at certain junctions etc.
Even got a free children's highway code book. I was about 10 or 11 too, this would have been 1994 maybe earlier.
We all did at mine, too. My sister didn't when she came to it later, but only because she couldn't really ride a bike.
That said, I suspect that many don't, and some could do with a refresher. I'm not sure that's something that should be enforced, so much as encouraged, though.
Absolutely! I'd only ever want to teach it to someone who wanted to be tought. If it were forced upon people, they'd probably just go down the car route.0 -
Il Principe wrote:sarajoy wrote:..anyway another person also mentioned the licence plates, from age 16 maybe. I mean, it would help catch tosspots, but it'd have to be fairly big to read from a distance - and where would that go?
Won't someone think of the aerodynamics!
Bottom line is there are to$$ers in every walk of life. Sadly this government thinks legislation is the answer to everything - take dangerous dogs, a small number of scum are illegally breeding dogs for fighting/looking hard/whatever so now the government is suggesting all dogs should be chipped... my only concern is that some bright spark actually does push through the idea of cyclists registration plates or enforced cycle/traffic segregation.
Perhaps it's time to start having a word with these to$$ers again before they f*ck things up for all of us...
Most of the people who could potentially spoil it for everyone are beyond talking to though.
If you said anything to them then more likely you would just get an "F off" in return, or worse...0 -
AndyOgy wrote:When I took Cycling Proficiency at school, nothing was mentioned about primary/secondary positions or anything like that. It was mostly just making sure that we could start, stop and balance. The course was run by the primary school teachers, who didn't actually have any qualification to teach cycling.
Wow :shock: . I guess I got seriously lucky with my school Cycling Proficiency. We did all that manoeuvring stuff on the playground as well as the junction rules which included the option of taking primary for a right turn (the alternative being the get off the bike and cross as a pedestrian). The final assessment for that was an observed on road course with observers at junctions making sure we did the right thing. All this was done with outside trainers/assessors. All this was about 25 years ago. How things have changed although the Bikeability level 2 sounds about right.
Mike (feeling strangely old all of a sudden
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Same. There was a few people that missed out due to illness or not having a bike though.sarajoy wrote:Ho hum wrote:AndyOgy wrote:Just out of interest, have any of you guys taken Bikeability training?
I teach it for a living and non-cyclists are always surprised to hear that cycle training is even available. What with many cyclists never having been taught to drive, it's not really surprising that some of them haven't got a clue what they're doing.
That's quite an interesting point.
Maybe ALL cyclists should have at least some basic training before they are allowed on the roads?
Maybe make it part of the national cirriculum at school?
My daughter has just done some basic training at her school and she is 10 years old.
We all did cycling proficiency at my primary school.
I don't remember anyone in my class missing out - it was done during the school day, revising and taking the road-sign test, an obstacle course (with emergency stop), and a test on what to do at certain junctions etc.
Even got a free children's highway code book. I was about 10 or 11 too, this would have been 1994 maybe earlier.
However cough 20 cough years later and I'd forgotten all bar signalling and how to turn into a junction.0 -
Like the other posters, I did a Cycling Proficiency course at junior school (compulsory) and for years had assumed that this was pretty standard, but it seems it has gone the way of school milk, hence the current crop of CSOs.
I know Sutton Borough Council is quite keen on schools cycling (one small reason i moved there), but it seems this is the exception. Time for all us Silly Commuting Parents to become PITAs and nag our councils into bringing this back in maybe.
As regards the chap on Kennington Road, just be thankful he wasn't driving a car :shock: .1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
suzyb wrote:However cough 20 cough years later and I'd forgotten all bar signalling and how to turn into a junction.
I can still remember most of it as I've used a lot of it on a daily basis for most of the intervening 25 years
. I did take a few slack years (just after I got my first decent car) but by then it was all fairly ingrained. I think the only thing I don't use is the signal for braking/slowing down. Not terribly practical/useful most of the time although I have mused on getting some switches hooked up to the brake levers to give me a brake light.
Mike0 -
Bloody hell, how old are you lot?!0
