angry day

NGale

well it seems to be a day for it and now its my go.

My vent today is joggers, spacifically the two stupid bints who were jogging on the cycle path who decided to stop dead at the exact moment two pedestrians who were on the walking section intersected with them. I braked hard, tried to swerve to avoid hitting one of them, swerved again because of the two (in the right) pedestrians, skidded off and ended up on my backside. I thankfully am not injured. However Jake who was not far behind me too had to break hard causing him to go over his handlebar and breaking his right arm. He is fuming to be honest. I had twice rung my bell, and called out to them byt was ignored.

The pedestrians were fantastic, they stood up for us being in the right (we were by no means going fast) and I have to admit their fancy footwork stopped them from big hit or ended up in the river.

Jake is feeling sorry for himself and in alot of pain (thankfully being left handed he will only be off work for a few days, although he can't go any practical boat work for 4 weeks) but did manage to get the names of the two joggers and has put the wind up them claiming he will be getting his lawyer to sue for loss of earnings (ok so this won't happen, but it scared the shoite out of them)

As for the bikes. Mine is fine, it landed on top of me and is unscathed. His Kona Jake is no longer, frame buckled and front wheel a gonner, he is not a happy puppy.

MadammeMarie

I had a similar encounter with a jogger on Cable Street. I saw him a couple of times, jogging on the segregated cycle lane instead of using an empty pavement. Made me brake hard twice! Tw@t!!! :x

Fireblade96

Ouch ! That sucks.

Next time, aim for the joggers. If they're like many of the "joggers" round Reading, they may give you a softer landing :twisted:

NGale

Fireblade96 wrote:

Ouch ! That sucks.

Next time, aim for the joggers. If they're like many of the "joggers" round Reading, they may give you a softer landing :twisted:

Problem is they would have broken my bike, I actually don't care if I got injured, it would be better than having to look at Jake looking throughly fed up and in pain.

prj45

You almost rear ended somebody, came off trying to avoid hitting them, and you think it's their fault?

Aguila

Sorry you and yours hurt but hard not to think you should have been in a position to stop safely. If they didn't move in response to your bell/shouts (as we all know peds often dont) then you stop don't you until its safe to pass??

NGale

The problem was not that they were necessarly on the cycle path (although that does annoy the tits off me) but their sudden stopping at the very point they intersected with the pedestrians on the other path meaning I had no where else to go other than a rapid stop and off my bike. No looking behind them to check, just suddenly stopping to bugger about with something (MP3 player, pedometer or something, I don't know I was too busy looking at the sky as I was falling)

roger_merriman

NGale wrote:

The problem was not that they were necessarly on the cycle path (although that does annoy the tits off me) but their sudden stopping at the very point they intersected with the pedestrians on the other path meaning I had no where else to go other than a rapid stop and off my bike. No looking behind them to check, just suddenly stopping to bugger about with something (MP3 player, pedometer or something, I don't know I was too busy looking at the sky as I was falling)

firstly owchies hope you both heal soon.

um it's a shared path, thus if a joggers stop suddenly the bike has to stop, they can amble or stop any where, the bike has to be going slow enough to stop, which can be very slow indeed on a sunny weekend.....

lost_in_thought

As much as I feel sorry for you and for Jake, you are both experienced cyclists and should know that peds are desperately unpredictable. They don't look behind them to check before stopping, or have a good idea of their surroundings on a road, let alone a cycle lane/footpath.

Additionally, how on earth did he do in his frame to such an extent and break his arm? How fast were you guys going?! Surely you could have exited the path to the side, or was it walled/fenced?

Bugly

NGale wrote:

The problem was not that they were necessarly on the cycle path (although that does annoy the tits off me) but their sudden stopping at the very point they intersected with the pedestrians on the other path meaning I had no where else to go other than a rapid stop and off my bike. No looking behind them to check, just suddenly stopping to bugger about with something (MP3 player, pedometer or something, I don't know I was too busy looking at the sky as I was falling)

Jeez mate you sound so much like a motorist complaining about cyclists using roads

NGale

lost_in_thought wrote:

As much as I feel sorry for you and for Jake, you are both experienced cyclists and should know that peds are desperately unpredictable. They don't look behind them to check before stopping, or have a good idea of their surroundings on a road, let alone a cycle lane/footpath.

Additionally, how on earth did he do in his frame to such an extent and break his arm? How fast were you guys going?! Surely you could have exited the path to the side, or was it walled/fenced?

It was a case of the river on one side, or a concrete stepped embankment on the other, which is what Jake went into, hence the bent frame, the forward force of going over the handlebars caused the wheel to go, the falling onto his arms caused the break.

He was behind me at the time so I'm not sure how fast he was moving, but I'm not a speedy cyclist by at means so my speed is more of a pootle, I fell because of not being able to unclip quickly enough.

Jake is going to have his bike fully inspected, because he like you says it shouldn't have totalled that easily.

It's my angry moment at some peoples complete inability to use any common sense and consider other path users

lost_in_thought

NGale wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

As much as I feel sorry for you and for Jake, you are both experienced cyclists and should know that peds are desperately unpredictable. They don't look behind them to check before stopping, or have a good idea of their surroundings on a road, let alone a cycle lane/footpath.

Additionally, how on earth did he do in his frame to such an extent and break his arm? How fast were you guys going?! Surely you could have exited the path to the side, or was it walled/fenced?

It was a case of the river on one side, or a concrete stepped embankment on the other, which is what Jake went into, hence the bent frame, the forward force of going over the handlebars caused the wheel to go, the falling onto his arms caused the break.

He was behind me at the time so I'm not sure how fast he was moving, but I'm not a speedy cyclist by at means so my speed is more of a pootle, I fell because of not being able to unclip quickly enough.

Jake is going to have his bike fully inspected, because he like you says it shouldn't have totalled that easily.

It's my angry moment at some peoples complete inability to use any common sense and consider other path users

Unfortunately, on a bike/ped shared path, the onus is on the cyclists to give way.

Like I say, I do feel sorry for you, I've been in a similar position in the past where you've kind of hoped the peds will move but they don't and had to take avoiding action, but I've never come off the bike as a result, which makes me think you guys were moving too fast for the situation.

Nonetheless, it seems very odd, especially as Jake has mentioned several times that he's not a heavyset fellow, that he and the bike should have suffered such a lot of damage at anything but a high speed.

For comparative purposes, I hit a 10" high kerb head on at about 25mph, and only heard about any bike damage about a year later when I sold on the wheels to ITB and one spoke was slightly concertina'ed. I did break 5 ribs, but nothing else, but maybe that's because I was 25. Oh, and I'm about 13st.

Aidy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Additionally, how on earth did he do in his frame to such an extent and break his arm? How fast were you guys going?! Surely you could have exited the path to the side, or was it walled/fenced?

Most cases I know of where people have broken things are due, in the most part, to falling awkwardly rather than hitting things excessively hard.

The frame's an interesting one though, although I suppose tube walls aren't that strong if you hit them with something pointy at the wrong angle.

Clever Pun

sorry to hear about that

NGale

lost_in_thought wrote:

NGale wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

As much as I feel sorry for you and for Jake, you are both experienced cyclists and should know that peds are desperately unpredictable. They don't look behind them to check before stopping, or have a good idea of their surroundings on a road, let alone a cycle lane/footpath.

Additionally, how on earth did he do in his frame to such an extent and break his arm? How fast were you guys going?! Surely you could have exited the path to the side, or was it walled/fenced?

It was a case of the river on one side, or a concrete stepped embankment on the other, which is what Jake went into, hence the bent frame, the forward force of going over the handlebars caused the wheel to go, the falling onto his arms caused the break.

He was behind me at the time so I'm not sure how fast he was moving, but I'm not a speedy cyclist by at means so my speed is more of a pootle, I fell because of not being able to unclip quickly enough.

Jake is going to have his bike fully inspected, because he like you says it shouldn't have totalled that easily.

It's my angry moment at some peoples complete inability to use any common sense and consider other path users

Unfortunately, on a bike/ped shared path, the onus is on the cyclists to give way.

Like I say, I do feel sorry for you, I've been in a similar position in the past where you've kind of hoped the peds will move but they don't and had to take avoiding action, but I've never come off the bike as a result, which makes me think you guys were moving too fast for the situation.

Nonetheless, it seems very odd, especially as Jake has mentioned several times that he's not a heavyset fellow, that he and the bike should have suffered such a lot of damage at anything but a high speed.

For comparative purposes, I hit a 10" high kerb head on at about 25mph, and only heard about any bike damage about a year later when I sold on the wheels to ITB and one spoke was slightly concertina'ed. I did break 5 ribs, but nothing else, but maybe that's because I was 25. Oh, and I'm about 13st.

Yeah I agree with you on the bike front, one reason why he's having it checked out as there could be some kind of underlying fault in the frame. as I say my fall was simplly because I'm a numpty in unclipping quickly enough.

He is the kind who from various sporting injuries over the years possibly just caught a weak point in the arm, x rays picked up a couple of old breaks, so it may not have taken much. and yes the annoying git is lighter than me (also a foot taller!)

Thing is if those joggers had stopped just a few steps later there wouldn't have been a problem, the pedestrians would have moved a few extra steps and we would have just gone right around them without any incident.

The pedestrians for their worth were excellent, they did have a bit of a go at the joggers for not checking before they stopped so suddenly, and they were the ones to make sure myself and Jake were both ok.

Christophe3967

Bad luck guys... cyclists and pedestrians really don't mix.

prj45

Christophe3967 wrote:

Bad luck guys... cyclists and pedestrians really don't mix.

You're talking absolute shite there mate.

I cycle in and around pedestrians (and their dogs) on shared paths every day and haven't ever had a problem.

prj45

NGale wrote:

Thing is if those joggers had stopped just a few steps later there wouldn't have been a problem,

And if you had kept your distance (and your mate a decent distance behind you) and/or slowed down there woudn't have been a problem.

Next you'll be saying that drivers who drive into the back of cyclists who slow down/stop aren't at fault.

gbsahne001

Christophe3967 wrote:

Bad luck guys... cyclists and pedestrians really don't mix.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.....

prj45 wrote:

You're talking absolute shite there mate.

I cycle in and around pedestrians (and their dogs) on shared paths every day and haven't ever had a problem.

.... but not this. If you're pootling around then yes fine but if you're travelling at speed there's no way you should be on a shared cycle path, which is why you'll never find me on a cycle path; far too dangerous for both pedestrians and me.

Flasheart

Hope he mends fast and gets his bike sorted

andy83

hope ya both ok and he recovers soon

makes me feel kind of glad in birmingham have not much choice but to use the roads!

Kieran_Burns

Wow prj45 if only we were all as perfect as you. Someone came worse off from an unfortunate incident and all you can do is sit there all holier than thou,

Yeesh, I hope you receive more sympathy when you next have an accident.

Oh wait - you're perfect. Sorry, I forgot in the midst of all your towering ego.

jedster

my sympathy to Jake - getting injured (apart from hurting) is just so frustrating.

That said, I do think you guys were more at fault than the peds. There is no obligation on peds to look behind before they stop. Traffic behind them needs to keep sufficient distance/control its speed so that they have time to react to peds stopping sharply. It really isnt any different from a cyclist slamming the anchors on then getting rear-ended by a car - ultimately it would be the car drivers fault.

Like others say, I avoid shared use paths as much as possible. I think they are pretty unsafe above granny-on-shopper / kid-with-stabilisers pace.

Heal up soon,

J

Aguila

jedster wrote:

my sympathy to Jake - getting injured (apart from hurting) is just so frustrating.

That said, I do think you guys were more at fault than the peds. There is no obligation on peds to look behind before they stop. Traffic behind them needs to keep sufficient distance/control its speed so that they have time to react to peds stopping sharply. It really isnt any different from a cyclist slamming the anchors on then getting rear-ended by a car - ultimately it would be the car drivers fault.

Like others say, I avoid shared use paths as much as possible. I think they are pretty unsafe above granny-on-shopper / kid-with-stabilisers pace.

Heal up soon,

J

+1 to all that. I'm afraid there's little doubt it was your fault and really we can all learn from it. If you had time to ring your bell a few times and shout then you certainly should have time to stop. It's up to traffic behind (whether that's a car or bike or whatever) to overtake what's in front of them safely, not the person/vehicle being overtaken.

Roastie

Ngale: Sympathies to you and Jake - that sucks. Sometimes, even at very low speed injuries can be bad, just as much as it is possible to have a high speed off and get away without so much as a scratch.

As for the disection of the accident - not having been there to see what happened - I will not make a judgement, suffice echo the comments that shared facilities are hardly safe.

FWIW, my policy around peds is to slow down to little more than walking pace (i.e able to stop in an instant) and give them lots of room.

In many ways, I think it is a blessing not to have a bell on my bike. I have seen so many close calls in our local park where cyclists ring their bell and then assume this gives them "right of way" - only to be surprised when a kid/dog/adult person suddenly turns into their path.

Wallace1492

My sympathies for your injuries....

Shared facilities are a nightmare. I do not like cycling anywhere there are pedestrians - children and dogs being the worst. Just so unpredictable.

holybinch

Bloody geese yesterday in RP.
Cyclist in front of me, no problem.
Me, going REALLY slowly, making noise to repel them, works fine until one of them tries to commit suicide!
Avoided it, but there were a few ruffled feathers!

Stone Glider

Hard luck! Stupid low- velocity accident with terrible consequence. Glad you didn't expect any sympathy from the resident lynch mob

Jay dubbleU

Sympathy guys - makes me wonder sometimes how some peds survive wandering around and apparently completely unaware of their surroundings.

prj45

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Yeesh, I hope you receive more sympathy when you next have an accident.

Do you think if I ride too close behind you and ride into the back of you when you slam your anchors on I'll get some sympathy?

NGale

Bit of an update. Jake recieved a call from Kona today (his LBS sent the bike to Kona for checking) about his Kona Jake frame and the seeming ease with which it buckled. It seems there was weld issue with it which caused it to be weaker than it should have been. They have as compensation offered Jake an upgrade and the 2010 model and a small amounf of compensation for loss of earnings for the two days he lost from work.

He was a little disturbed at the young chap from Kona calling him 'dude' however