Murcia stage 3 *spoiler*

frenchfighter

I don't mind if they ride slowly for the first half or so of the race then let it rip and see who can hold on in the other half. I'd rather that then 45 km/h for 4 hrs and nothing exciting. Riding fast on the flats in the peloton is not exactly what I would call exciting.

As a serious question, IYO, iain, are you saying that the riding hasn't changed, there weren't more 'exploits', the riding was mostly defensive, and the TTs were uber-important, to name but a few.

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

As a serious question, IYO, iain, are you saying that the riding hasn't changed, there weren't more 'exploits', the riding was mostly defensive, and the TTs were uber-important, to name but a few.

Great Tour in history won in a ? Time trial. 87 Tour? Time trial. 1990 Tour? Time trial. They were uber important. Sure, there may have been brave rides through the mountains but by the GC guys? I can't think of many off the top of my head.

The only thing I can think of recently that resembles the "exploits" you talk about is Landis ride to Morzine.

Being a GC guy is all about being conservative and taking time where you can. One day races are different, you need to roll the bones sometimes and just go for it, but 3 week races?

iainf72

And to answer your question : Yes, racing has changed a bit. Blood doping favours the all out 30 minutes at the end of the stage, however, people used to do that before blood doping.

The long range multi-col attack was, as it is now, a rare event.

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

And to answer your question : Yes, racing has changed a bit. Blood doping favours the all out 30 minutes at the end of the stage, however, people used to do that before blood doping.

The long range multi-col attack was, as it is now, a rare event.

+1

The only GC guys of doing that sort of thing was Merckyx and Coppi even then it was rare.

le_patron

frenchfighter wrote:

As for the people who talk about races other than the Tour de France being 'training rides' for GC candidates, all I can say is that is a bad attitude to turn up and train in a race. You can do that when you are not racing. When you are racing I expect and hope to see some exciting and sometimes exceptional riding.

Nearly everyone rides races as training, from TdF GC contenders right through to to me today, at the bottom rung of the sport. It's for a number of reasons, main one for me being that it's hard to replicate race intensity and rythyms outside of an actual race, especially useful at the start of a season. You can't maintain peak form continuously either, so races become part of training plan. This is normal.

With that in mind, a quick look at Eddie Mercx's winning ratio shows why he was in a different league to everybody else ever...

frenchfighter

Yes some riders are exceptions and will want to attack in every race and try and win, whatever the race, be it a small one week Tour or a GT.

Valverde and Contador are two examples that would fall under the GC riders. Their palmares shows this.

Yes Merckx rode from Jan to Sep and didn't turn up to train but to win.

These people are professional sportsmen and they are meant to race. They are paid to get results.

afx237vi

frenchfighter wrote:

Yes some riders are exceptions and will want to attack in every race and try and win, whatever the race, be it a small one week Tour or a GT.

Valverde and Contador are two examples that would fall under the GC riders. Their palmares shows this.

Yes Merckx rode from Jan to Sep and didn't turn up to train but to win.

These people are professional sportsmen and they are meant to race. They are paid to get results.

...for their sponsors. In the races that will get them on the news and in the papers. Not in races that only a couple of thousand internet nerds pay attention to.

moray_gub

frenchfighter wrote:

Yes some riders are exceptions and will want to attack in every race and try and win, whatever the race, be it a small one week Tour or a GT.

Valverde and Contador are two examples that would fall under the GC riders. Their palmares shows this.

.

No rider tries to win every race he partcipates in not even your heroes AC and AV.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Well I am not an old man or even middle age. I am in the prime of my youth and if I want to believe in great and admirable conquests then I will. They still happen occasionally and there are still attacking and exciting riders to admire in the current pro peloton.

I don't think you're old, I know you're young. Hence why you hold on to idealistic principles, as most of us did in our student days.

frenchfighter wrote:

Furthermore, although I didn't watch all these 'old' races live, I have seen numerous clips, photos and read about the riders so am confident in saying that racing was different. It was more epic and admirable, more exciting and brave. Sure some tactics etc have stayed and some

This is the problem with nostalgia. We remember the great moments and forget the majority of trash. Look at it this way. I'm a film fan and the 70s were a golden age. But I'd struggle to name 40 great films. But a couple of thousand were made. The highlights are celebrated, but the forgotten trash that massively outweighs it. All of the great Tour riders (five wins+) were all great time-triallists and this is where they won.

frenchfighter wrote:

As for the people who talk about races other than the Tour de France being 'training rides' for GC candidates, all I can say is that is a bad attitude to turn up and train in a race. You can do that when you are not racing. When you are racing I expect and hope to see some exciting and sometimes exceptional riding.

These riders are professionals, they're not Victorian Corinthians, just in it for the glory.Their sponsors are paying them to deliver at the Tour not at Murica. Now I don't race bikes, but I've played hockey at a high level (European Cup) and your only thought is to get the desired result. The priority is minimizing mistakes. That's what sport is. It's about winning the big races/games. Not about entertaining internet dreamers.

Here's a challenge for you - Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Indurain and Armstrong. 27 Tour wins between them, that's probably 500 stages. In how many of them did they make a 'great and admirable conquest'. I'll give you Merckx's ride to Marseille. Give me four more and you'll be up to a grand 1% in the biggest race in the world.

For what it's worth, I enjoy your romantic dreamer attitude to the sport and it adds something to the forum. I just think it's hopelessly naive.

greeny12

And of course old Valverde - he's so attacking, so dynamic, so......credible.....

Those of us who still cling to the naive belief that cycling will one day rid itself of the worst of the cheats tend to view incredible feats of derring-do in the mountains with a high degree of scepticism anyway.