Communting in London - fast hybrid or road bike?

UndercoverElephant

gpsBRM wrote:

I you want a road bike but fancy flat bars, try a flat bared road bike like this:

http://www.scottusa.com/us_en/product/8 ... ter_s50_fb

Its not a hybrid, that would be Scott's Sportster range not the Speedster

Other makes must do them to. It'll be lighter than a drop handle bar version to.

Aw, man. That looks so ugly!

Edit: Though you are right, it's 80 grams lighter than the version with proper handlebars.

suzyb

amnezia wrote:

A Road bike is perfect for commuting, if you get a hybrid you'll regret it in about 6 months. Been there done that.

+1

I've just switched to drops from previously riding a flat bar and you don't need to worry. The first ride was a tad disconcerting, it felt like I was charging head first downhill :? but you get used to it.

I do have to admit though getting used to drops is easier than getting used to braking with hands on the hoods

MonkeyMonster

That looks nice!

Back to your deep fried mars bars UE!

goco

suzyb wrote:

amnezia wrote:

A Road bike is perfect for commuting, if you get a hybrid you'll regret it in about 6 months. Been there done that.

+1

I've just switched to drops from previously riding a flat bar and you don't need to worry. The first ride was a tad disconcerting, it felt like I was charging head first downhill :? but you get used to it.

I do have to admit though getting used to drops is easier than getting used to braking with hands on the hoods

Thats exactly my concern - I think i'll get used to the riding position, but braking with hands on the hoods, (or even worse on the tops) is a little worrying. I know people say its all about anticipation, but in busy London traffic there is always the possiblity of the unexpected......

How long since you made the switch? And is the braking getting better? Any thoughts on drop bars vs flat in terms of dealing with traffic (manoeuvreability etc)?

Thanks again all, great forum!

Kiblams

Aren't most hybrids in the shops road bikes now except that they have a few more frame bolts for panniers etc? :?

UndercoverElephant

Braking from hoods isn't usually much of a problem, you get plenty of purchase on it and in emergency situations I've managed to do endos etc. I would advise getting decent brake pads though, most of the ones which come as stock are poor enough to make you nervous.

I've never seen many roadies riding on tops, it just doesn't seem natural other than for a short stretch, but I wouldn't want to emergency stop from there.

il_principe

Kiblams wrote:

Aren't most hybrids in the shops road bikes now except that they have a few more frame bolts for panniers etc? :?

I don't think so - they're not in the spirit of roadies in terms of geometry, clearances, and (usually) groupset. So no, they're not.

Kiblams

Il Principe wrote:

I don't think so - they're not in the spirit of roadies in terms of geometry, clearances, and (usually) groupset. So no, they're not.

My apologies, to me all bikes with skilnny 700x wheels and drop handlebars look the same

il_principe

Kiblams wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

I don't think so - they're not in the spirit of roadies in terms of geometry, clearances, and (usually) groupset. So no, they're not.

My apologies, to me all bikes with skilnny 700x wheels and drop handlebars look the same

All MTB's look the same to me!

davis

I bought a hybrid, and ended up buying a proper road bike a year later. If I had the same choice again, I probably wouldn't have bought the hybrid: it's a full carbon thing, which is too nice a frame to use on the commute or to leave in London if I ever go, but I'll choose the road bike for longer weekend rides.

I guess my ideal would be something low maintenance and robust for the commute (maybe a cross -- really looking at the Genesis Day One cross), and a road bike for the weekend jaunts (but I'd still have a fairly relaxed geometry).

Having said that, my brother has the same hybrid, and there's not any real difference in speed on the longer rides (far greater differences are made by fitness, or drinking 6 pints the night before). Matching bikes... awww.


The parenthesis is my friend, (apparently).

Edit: Just to say, I don't feel I can exert quite as much braking force when riding on the hoods as when on the drops. I suspect it might be simply down to how hard you pull. I still brake very early though, because I'm a big scaredy cat.

suzyb

goco wrote:

suzyb wrote:

amnezia wrote:

A Road bike is perfect for commuting, if you get a hybrid you'll regret it in about 6 months. Been there done that.

+1

I've just switched to drops from previously riding a flat bar and you don't need to worry. The first ride was a tad disconcerting, it felt like I was charging head first downhill :? but you get used to it.

I do have to admit though getting used to drops is easier than getting used to braking with hands on the hoods

Thats exactly my concern - I think i'll get used to the riding position, but braking with hands on the hoods, (or even worse on the tops) is a little worrying. I know people say its all about anticipation, but in busy London traffic there is always the possiblity of the unexpected......

How long since you made the switch? And is the braking getting better? Any thoughts on drop bars vs flat in terms of dealing with traffic (manoeuvreability etc)?

Thanks again all, great forum!

Second ride was yesterday

tbh I can't really comment on riding in traffic. I'm out in the country where there really isn't any. However I'd say braking shouldn't be that much of a problem if you make sure and go at an appropriate speed.

sarajoy

I don't see anything too wrong with going for a flattie road bike to begin with - but don't spend a fortune on it!

I would say that mind, my bike is marketed as a flat bar roadie, and I'm very much in love with it

This does, however, come from no experience of riding drops.

If you're going to spend a grand, do it on the bike you'll definitely want to keep - and that's sounding ever more like a roadie, isn't it!

Worst comes to the worst, you can always fit flat bars to it, and get brakes for a flat bar fitted. That's got to be cheaper than doing it the other way round? Or, you could go to a bullhorn set up, which uses the same brakes/shifters at an angle which may give you a 'better' grip on them: http://www.biking4theffb.com/fixed_c.JPG

Edit more modern equipment, same idea: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2320/150 ... 0553bb.jpg

ichabod

ichabod wrote:

I ride a road bike with flat bars - the best of both worlds IMO.

DonDaddyD wrote:

So you ride a hybrid?

I suppose you could call it that - its a normal racer but with the bars swapped out... I tend to associate the name hybrid with slightly wider tyres, longer frame, mudguards etc.

In London it is a life saver to be able to brake hard and quickly. 90% of people I see riding drops in London are actually using the tops/hoods of the bars which in my mind is extremely dangerous.

DonDaddyD wrote:

How is it dangerous?

Increased stopping distance. I see this as dangerous for reasons explained below:

I ride fast and have lost count of the number of times that sudden braking has saved my skin.

DonDaddyD wrote:

That's the thing, first rule of braking is anticipation and not how hard you can squeeze your brakes and skid to a stop.

I guess you might as well get rid of your brakes altogether then. You'll save some weight and with enough anticipation you can always just put your feet down ;-)

Seriously though, riding with hands on the top increases your stopping distance. You need to compensate for this by being that much more cautious and cycling that much more slowly. The maximum speed at which you can safely travel in any given situation will be reduced. If your aim is to cycle as fast as possible (the main reason for drops in the first place?) then this is a negative.

Its all very well to talk about anticipation but the most dangerous situations are ones that you cant anticipate!

DonDaddyD wrote:

Perhaps you should anticipating not anticipating.

No one is perfect and no one can anticipate every possible dangerous situation before its too late.

To achieve a slightly more aero position for those windy days, you can use a downwards angled stem and remove all of the spacers from the steerer. If you are serious, you could even go for some of those triathlon aeor bar extender things.

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm not seeing how that is safer than dropbars to be honest.

Your hands can be over the brakes at all times. Obviously they also can with drop bars if you use the drops (in which case this whole argument is rendered meaningless). I'm just saying that from my observations in London not many people actually use their drops. I don't know why this is?

itchieritchie

Undercover elephant is right about the crosstop levers. There's plenty leverage and so much power and modulation that I only have the front one fitted to my singlespeed. I don't recommend this for everyone but I'm perfectly confident with this arrangement.

Also, I go up Pentonville Road every day (that bloody hill between King's X and Angel) and when you're dancing on the pedals and swinging the bike from side to side, it's MUCH easier on a road bike because you wrap your hands around the hoods i.e. longitudinally, as opposed to latitudinally on a flat bar. This is WAY more natural and something you could only know if you've tried both types of bike.

Anyone that doesn't fit SOME kind of mudguard on their bike in winter is a masochist. It doesn't have to look so terrible. I just fitted a SKS shockboard to my rear and that's it.

Someone else on here mentioned a cyclocross. Never actually tried one myself but I have to say that it DOES sound like a brilliant option, certainly better than a hybrid. I'd get one myself if I had the money and space for another bike.

Looking forward to seeing what you get now. Do let us know. And good luck again.

goco

Well thank you all for the replies and advice. Took the secteur out for a good 5 mile test ride last night and was quite impressed. Only the second time riding a bike with drop bars and it already felt much better than the first time - almost natural, but not quite. Also getting used to the braking, although it still doesn't offer the same stopping power from the hoods as a flat bar does. Think i will look into the cross top levers.

Re the comments on the CX bike - I did look at a Tricross sport as well, but considering that I'll only be riding on road I couldn't see much advantage apart from the ability to fit full mudguards. Is there any other advantage I'm missing? With either race blades or Crud roadrace thingys fitted, as far as i can see the Secteur can do everything the Tricross can do ON ROAD, and its lighter and faster.

Finally, is there anything else I should be considering? Has to be from Evans (C2W scheme) which rules out the Ribble and Condor suggested earlier. Basic requirements are to fit rack and panniers (i know, i know) and good for all weather commuting. Leaning towards the Secteur over the Allez as its more comfort orientated (carbon fork, Zertz inserts etc). Any other manufacturers I should be considering? Canondales don't seem to have rack mounts......Trek?

lost_in_thought

I believe Condor will take Evans vouchers...

And as far as stopping from the hoods goes, it's all I ever do, and touch wood it has never caused me any problems. You get used to it. And I really don't think I stop any less efficiently than anyone else with normal brakes on the tops. If I get on a bike with discs I spend the first few miles chucking myself off the saddle, though.

As far as what manufacturer, I'd go to whatever shop, have a good look, and ride everything that takes your fancy.

Paddy O Dawes

You can exert more pressure on the brake lever from the drops than from the hoods, no question - but that doesn't mean braking from the hoods is any less effective, either v the drops or v a flat bar bike. You can - so long as you have decent brakes - exert as much pressure from the hoods as you can use.

In other words, the limiting factor on how fast you can stop is not braking strength but tyre grip. Slam on the brakes - from hoods, drops or flat bar - and you'll go into a skid. Maximum-short-of-skidding is perfectly do-able from the hoods.

Aidy

goco wrote:

Finally, is there anything else I should be considering? Has to be from Evans (C2W scheme) which rules out the Ribble and Condor suggested earlier. Basic requirements are to fit rack and panniers (i know, i know) and good for all weather commuting. Leaning towards the Secteur over the Allez as its more comfort orientated (carbon fork, Zertz inserts etc). Any other manufacturers I should be considering? Canondales don't seem to have rack mounts......Trek?

The one I keep considering, perhaps? A Kona Dew Drop

amnezia

ichabod wrote:

[
Your hands can be over the brakes at all times. Obviously they also can with drop bars if you use the drops (in which case this whole argument is rendered meaningless). I'm just saying that from my observations in London not many people actually use their drops. I don't know why this is?

Because you can cover your brakes with your hands on the hood.

Its doesn't sound like you've ridden a road bike before so i don't see how you can give a fair comparison. :?:

Aidy

I only ever stop from the hoods too, and the only time I really have problems is when I'm somewhat lacking in brake pads (which seems to happen far too quickly in the wet!).

I spent a little bit of time adjusting them so that the bite point is at the optimum point for how I brake, which might help you. I don't reckon cross top levers would help much - you might be able to get a bit more leverage out of them, but you'd be in a less balanced position (so wouldn't be able to exert as much pressure).

il_principe

I say go for the Spesh. If you're Evans only you have little choice in that price bracket and IME Spesh make good bikes. Just be careful with Evans, the service varies hugely from store to store and IMHO most staff are rubbish when it comes to roadies - they're geared towards selling hybrids to commuters. If you have a good local shop then I'd leave all servicing etc to them. Also sod the panniers, get a courier bag instead!

Stopping power from the hoods is fine I promise you, I've never had problems whether it be commuting in London or hooning down hills in the rain, remember braking is as much a function of tire width as it is brake type etc...

goco

Paddy O Dawes wrote:

You can exert more pressure on the brake lever from the drops than from the hoods, no question - but that doesn't mean braking from the hoods is any less effective, either v the drops or v a flat bar bike. You can - so long as you have decent brakes - exert as much pressure from the hoods as you can use.

In other words, the limiting factor on how fast you can stop is not braking strength but tyre grip. Slam on the brakes - from hoods, drops or flat bar - and you'll go into a skid. Maximum-short-of-skidding is perfectly do-able from the hoods.

I guess I have weak hands then! Probably just something I'll get used to....was already better last night on my second test ride than first time out. I think i'm sold on drop bars, just need to make sure the Secteur is the right bike for me.

goco

lost_in_thought wrote:

I believe Condor will take Evans vouchers...

And as far as stopping from the hoods goes, it's all I ever do, and touch wood it has never caused me any problems. You get used to it. And I really don't think I stop any less efficiently than anyone else with normal brakes on the tops. If I get on a bike with discs I spend the first few miles chucking myself off the saddle, though.

As far as what manufacturer, I'd go to whatever shop, have a good look, and ride everything that takes your fancy.

Had a look at the Condor Agio, and it looks quite good - unfortunately spoke to Condor who said they won't accept Evans vouchers, so it looks like its going to be the Secteur.

W1

I ride a hybrid - 20 mile a day London commute. Have done for a few years. I am an avid hybrid supporter. I have scalped many a roadie, the main limiting factor in a city commute is traffic and red lights which affect the hybrid as much as a roadie. I also tried a roadie for two weeks and just wasn't happy - I couldn't get comfortable, I too didn't feel confident in the braking ability from the hoods and generally it just wasn't for me. My bike has racks and guards, gets thrashed each and every day rain or shine and I wouldn't want to put a decent roadie through some of the potholes in London, for the sake of bike and body. BUT for £1k a roadie is a no brainer - I just would never spend that much on a commuting bike!

biondino

Paddy O Dawes wrote:

You can exert more pressure on the brake lever from the drops than from the hoods, no question - but that doesn't mean braking from the hoods is any less effective, either v the drops or v a flat bar bike. You can - so long as you have decent brakes - exert as much pressure from the hoods as you can use.

In other words, the limiting factor on how fast you can stop is not braking strength but tyre grip. Slam on the brakes - from hoods, drops or flat bar - and you'll go into a skid. Maximum-short-of-skidding is perfectly do-able from the hoods.

Just quoting this for emphasis. The only time I appreciate brakes on the drops is on long, long descents where my hands simply get too tired from the extra force you have to exert on the hoods compared to the drops.

Clever Pun

Never had a problem braking from the hoods... saying that I don't have hands like Jeremy Beadle

Canny Jock

I've recently started riding a cyclocross (Tricross Comp) bike after a hybrid, and although it took a week or so to get used to braking from the hoods I'm fine now. If the brakes are adjusted properly, there is no problem at all braking from the hoods. I do get more power on the drops but either is fine. The top brake levers are also OK, although again not quite as much power. I find I'm spending less times on the tops as I get used to the bike anyway.

Advantages of a cross bike for road only? Apart from full mudguards and the brakes mentioned above, which you could probably fit to a road bike anyway if you really wanted, then I suppose the main one is the ability to fit much wider tyres. This can give you better comfort on the horrible potholed roads we have to deal with at the moment, and means you're less likely to damage wheels. However, although I find commuting on the cross great, I have already got an itch to get a proper road bike instead/as well as!

bigmat

Problem with braking on the hoods isn't just about hand strength. On a road bike (or a racer as they were when i was growing up) you are leaning forward when on the hoods so its a less stable body position when braking sharply. Also, on the drops / on a flat bar bike, you have a bar to physically brace yourself behind so if in an emergency you have to slam the brakes on, you can brace yourself and stay on the bike a lot easier. I've has several incidents where I've had to emergency stop and have had the rear wheel a good couple of feet off the ground and havealways managed to avoid going over the bars. Had a done that riding on the hoods I'd have hit the deck no question. Of course you can compensate for this by riding cautiously, but kind of defeats the main argument in favour of a road bike.

I'm not saying road bike brakes are inherently dangerous BTW, just that braking on the hoods is not the safest way - fine most of the time, but not some of the time (I would consider IP mad for riding a fast wet descent on the hoods myself but I'm sure he knows what he's doing!)

goco

Well, thanks all for the advice. Yesterday I signed on the dotted line for the Secteur Elite and, as they had one in stock, picked it up and rode it home last night. It will take a bit of getting used to, but it so much smoother than my old trek t30 - not to mention lighter and faster.

Re the recommendations for a CX bike - don't particularly want to fit anything wider than the 25c tyres the secteur comes with so didn't really see any advantages to a CX (apart form full mudguards) thats worth the extra weight of the CX.

Braking on the way home was fine, and I've already got used to braking from the hoods. But thankfully no emergency stops required (which is my main concern from the hoods) but i'll keep practising these just in case.....

Just need to fit the crud road racers now - shop said they wouldn't fit over the 25c tyres, but crud say it should fit 25c and I reckon the Evans mechanics gave up too easily. Anyone with experience of fiiting the Crud roadracers to 25c tyres, or even better a Secteur?

Thanks everyone for all the help, this is a great forum.

Norky

goco wrote:

Just need to fit the crud road racers now - shop said they wouldn't fit over the 25c tyres, but crud say it should fit 25c and I reckon the Evans mechanics gave up too easily. Anyone with experience of fiiting the Crud roadracers to 25c tyres, or even better a Secteur?

I use Crud roadracers on my Specialized Sirrus which came with 28mm tyres, specifically "Specialized All Condition Pro, 700x28c, aramid bead, 120TPI w/ Armadillo Elite". They fit fine. They took a bit of fiddling but I think that'll be the case whatever tire you have.