Ruta Stage 4 *spoiler*

stagehopper

Here's what Wiggins said re: the TT at the end of Qatar:

"There's a nice 10km time trial in the Ruta, and I'll have a punt at that," Wiggins said.

"I won't go for the GC because we've other guys like Simon Gerrans for that. For me it's about riding well for the team and then the time trial. I won't be taking anything for granted at this stage of the year. I don't want to be too relaxed about my racing even though the Tour de France is the big goal. We've got a plan to really build gradually and I feel I'm already coming into some really good shape."

"My first go for overall will probably be at the Vuelta Murcia (March 3-7). Then by the time I get to the Volta a Catalunya, I should be going really good. After that I'll shut it down and take a mini-break and start building up to the Giro."

The Prodigy

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

No further comment from me on this thread. You can say what you like. Enjoy.

Do you realise the concept of a forum is to debate things? That means having opposing views and discussing them.

I'm not a Wiggins fan at all but this was a good ride. How many TT's has he won as a pro? I can think of 2 or 3. If you get beaten by Rasmussen (who's been doing 6 days all winter) and just ahead of Tony Martin I think you're in good shape.

Wiggins just doesn't have the record to indicate he'd rinse everyone in this race.

There's no shame in adjusting your opinion based on new evidence. I used to say Cavendish wouldn't ever be a good sprinter. So I was wrong, it doesn't keep me up at night.

Excellent point you make about how many TT's he has won, there is nothing to suggest he should have won this race. You could surely say Larsson is a better TT'er and he managed to beat him today. Michael Rogers has won a couple in his time as well!

Alot of people were shocked at Bertie beating him in P-N prologue last year but maybe they were doing Bertie a disservice and talking up Wiggo too much.

Pokerface

Just realized that Alex Rasmussen is preparing for and peaking for the track World Championships next month, so he would have been targeting this stage as perfect prep for some of the track events.

mroli

I would also say that by FF's logic - Cancellera is crap because he got beaten by EBH at the TT in Oman...

(I know, I know, no TT bikes etc etc, but still....) :P

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

How many TT's has he won as a pro? I can think of 2 or 3.

Wiggins just doesn't have the record to indicate he'd rinse everyone in this race.

The Prodigy wrote:

Excellent point you make about how many TT's he has won, there is nothing to suggest he should have won this race.

From 2000-2010, Wiggins has won 13 times.

10 of those wins have been ITTs.

2 of those wins have been TTTs.

Also you may not be aware if you are not interested in the UK TT scene, but Wiggins routinely used to turn up and torch the 10 mile TTs. At one point (and it may still be the case) he held the record for the fastest 10 mile TT.

I'll let you mull over that one, then tell me he doesn't have TT form.

iainf72 wrote:

There's no shame in adjusting your opinion based on new evidence. I used to say Cavendish wouldn't ever be a good sprinter. So I was wrong, it doesn't keep me up at night.

Kléber

The perils of instant judgement without context. Percivals of the world beware

disgruntledgoat

I can vouch for his 10 mile prowess. I remember him turning up at a Levens 10 one sunday about 7 years ago. Full FDJ kit, drove up in an FDJ sponsored car, proceeded to destroy everybody logging 19:51 on a 54x14 fixed. The graons as he signed on were beautiful, think he'd finished the Giro the week before.

Anyway, it's February. He said he was targetting it, but that doesn't mean he had to win it. Over 11km he lost to a good rider by 5 seconds or 0.7% of the winners time. If you'd have run them side by side over the 11km, Wiggins would have been 77m back when Rasmussen crossed the line. For your first outing of the season, that's gotta be pleasing, in terms of performance.

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

I'll let you mull over that one, then tell me he doesn't have TT form.

Did I say that?

No, I said he's not a prolific winner of TT's. And that is true. What's his best TT win? Dauphine prologue? He gets good results for sure and he's good against the watch. No doubting that but there is no evidence that he'd just turn up and thrash everyone in the Ruta.

He's no Cancellera.

frenchfighter

You have to be kidding me.

First you make an incorrect comment.

Then you make a speil about being wrong and how you are able to accept that, (with the aim of saying I should accept I am wrong and say so).

Then I post facts which completely destroy your points.

Then you reply trying to justify yourself where no justification is possible.

Pretty embarrasing for you I'm afraid.

Several words to describe this. One starts with hy and ends with ite.

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

Then I post facts which completely destroy your points.

You haven't destroyed anything I'm afraid.

Straw poll forumers : Has FF destroyed my point?

disgruntledgoat

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Then I post facts which completely destroy your points.

You haven't destroyed anything I'm afraid.

Straw poll forumers : Has FF destroyed my point?

To be honest I thought he was gracioulsy leaving us alone to talk about boring riders he dislikes in a manner he disagrees with.

FF, you remind me of myself aged about 18. You can't "win" at conversation. You can make your points which others will agree or disagree with. On a lot of occasions, no matter how forcefully you beat people round the head with your opinions, they will not change their minds. Just respect and accept this.

frenchfighter

The point is plain as set out clear as day in my last two posts. If people who read it don't agree then I'm sorry but there is nothing I can say further.

DG, age is nothing but numbers. For all you know I could be 14. I am not trying to win anything but when someone says something which is wrong and says they know how to deal with a time when they are wrong then they are shown to be wrong and cannot accept it, it needs to be pointed out, which I did. Nothing wrong with that.

Ironman595

a tweet from mr Henderson.. "Wiggo showed us today why he is one of the best in the world on a bike. 1st time on TT bike today and rips 2nd place. As you do."

Cant argue with that... or can you?!

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

DG, age is nothing but numbers. For all you know I could be 14. I am not trying to win anything but when someone says something which is wrong and says they know how to deal with a time when they are wrong then they are shown to be wrong and cannot accept it, it needs to be pointed out, which I did. Nothing wrong with that.

A lesson you could do with learning.

Pokerface

Wiggins wins a lot of prologues and short TTs. He places well in many others.

Now Cancellara - he's won something like 30 TTs of varying lengths. He's what I would call PROLIFIC.

Kléber

FF, you simply said Wiggins should have done much better. From my view he did a good ride and one that's inline with his career performances.

He has not won much at pro level but he's got plenty of top-5 positions in TTs, yesterday was a strong performance based on this record, no?

I don't see where the disappointment comes from, unless you've been buying into the Sky hype that suggests they'll "torch" any race they enter.

frenchfighter

Haha, you are a good laugh Ian. Keep digging and all that....

Pokerface

This thread kind of reminds me of this photo:




Hopefully not too inappropriate?

andyp

Why am I reminded of this quote;

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

iainf72

andyp wrote:

Why am I reminded of this quote;

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
George Bernard Shaw

Are you calling me a pig? Is it my table manners?

calvjones

frenchfighter wrote:

You have to be kidding me.

First you make an incorrect comment.

Then you make a speil about being wrong and how you are able to accept that, (with the aim of saying I should accept I am wrong and say so).

Then I post facts which completely destroy your points.

Then you reply trying to justify yourself where no justification is possible.

Pretty embarrasing for you I'm afraid.

Several words to describe this. One starts with hy and ends with ite.

You seemed to post 'facts' that show Wiggo wins around 1 ITT a year. So Iain has 10 months left before we can call him a hypocrite.

[waits]

[waits]

...

frenchfighter

So you too think that Wiggins isn't a TT specialist?!?!?! Blimey.

Do you realise that before last year he wasn't known for anything else in road racing. Ask any person on the Continent what they think when you say Bradley and they would say TT.

redddraggon

Pokerface wrote:

Wiggins wins a lot of prologues and short TTs. He places well in many others.

Now Cancellara - he's won something like 30 TTs of varying lengths. He's what I would call PROLIFIC.

Bradley is closer to Cav in Terms of TTs won per season, Cancellara truly is Prolific

"Cav has 2 (in 3 seasons), Bradley has 8 (in 8 seasons) (not including TTT),

So that makes 0.66 TT wins per year for Cav, 1.0 TT wins per year for Bradley.

Fabian Cancellara on the other hand..

25 solo TT wins in 9 seasons, gives a TT win/year of 2.78."

(from a post I did last night)

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

So you too think that Wiggins isn't a TT specialist?!?!?! Blimey.

Do you realise that before last year he wasn't known for anything else in road racing. Ask any person on the Continent what they think when you say Bradley and they would say TT.

They did. And yes, he waas good at them. But the fact remains he didn't *win* many. He'll top five, no disputing that. In 08 he didn't win any. Last year he won a few but maybe one "significant" one.

He's new a grand tour contendor rather than a TT specialist I'd suggest.

DaveyL

TT specialist comes 2nd in a TT. A shocking revelation, if only that one TT specialist turned up for the TT.

frenchfighter

Comparing Wiggins to Cancellara to say that Wiggins isn't a Top tt-er because he hasn't the same level of wins doesn't make sense.

Also, Cavendish comparison is no good. He has won one TTT and one Prologue. Not the same as an ITT.

In addition, Wiggins wasn't focused on the road.

Saying the UK (and likely World) record holder for a 10 TT (let alone all the other things in his favour) isn't a top favourite come a TT is more than odd.

redddraggon

frenchfighter wrote:

Also, Cavendish comparison is no good. He has won one TTT and one Prologue. Not the same as an ITT.

Wait. Are you a Wiggins fanboy now?

I think you'll find Cav has won two Prologues, and I didn't include any TTTs or 2-Ups in the calculations for any of the riders.

I don't think Cav was concentrating on TTs either, he's got bigger stuff to fry.

calvjones

frenchfighter wrote:

Comparing Wiggins to Cancellara to say that Wiggins isn't a Top tt-er because he hasn't the same level of wins doesn't make sense.

Also, Cavendish comparison is no good. He has won one TTT and one Prologue. Not the same as an ITT.

In addition, Wiggins wasn't focused on the road.

Saying the UK (and likely World) record holder for a 10 TT (let alone all the other things in his favour) isn't a top favourite come a TT is more than odd.

Nobody's saying he isn't a TT favourite. Just that favourites don't always win.

I assume you think Larsson, Martin and Rogers are lightweights too?

frenchfighter

In 2008 it was the Olympics and it is more than widely known that they were Wiggns' only goal. The road meant nothing.

Furthermore, his only results in the whole of 2008 were a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and a 5th in a TTT and TTs.

In 2009, his placings are as follows:
3 ITT wins
1 TTT win
ITT placings: 21 in Worlds (mechanical as you all know), 4th, 6th, 2nd, 3rd, 2nd, 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd
TTT placings: 2nd, 2nd

That is abundantly clear he is a TT specialist. If you can't see that then you are deliberately being obtuse.

Kléber

Yes, he's a TT specialist. So 2nd place in a TT? :?