Let's play "The Frames the Same Game!"...
Splottboy
Posts: 3,695
Specialized, come on down! Giant, come on down! Merida, come on down!
Now here's the rules for our viewers:
Nearly all MTB and Road frames are made by about 3 - 4 main manufacturers,
The viewers all know this, but it's "supposed" to be a secret!
So, the question is, Who makes what for who????
As Consumers, paying their Hard Earned Cash, surley it's their "RIGHT" to be told?
( Huh...Sorry, I was having a dream then, about bikes.) As I've been looking for about 3 months, is easy to notice similarities between many Mtb frames, in fact many are EXACTLY the same, but with diffferent companies names/paint/stickers.
So, Why pay £1,000 for X's bike when Y's is the same for £750???
I think the Mtb buying public has got more mugs than a PG TIp's Chimps Tea Party!
Where can we find out whats what? The "insiders" in the mag's know, why not us?!
Now here's the rules for our viewers:
Nearly all MTB and Road frames are made by about 3 - 4 main manufacturers,
The viewers all know this, but it's "supposed" to be a secret!
So, the question is, Who makes what for who????
As Consumers, paying their Hard Earned Cash, surley it's their "RIGHT" to be told?
( Huh...Sorry, I was having a dream then, about bikes.) As I've been looking for about 3 months, is easy to notice similarities between many Mtb frames, in fact many are EXACTLY the same, but with diffferent companies names/paint/stickers.
So, Why pay £1,000 for X's bike when Y's is the same for £750???
I think the Mtb buying public has got more mugs than a PG TIp's Chimps Tea Party!
Where can we find out whats what? The "insiders" in the mag's know, why not us?!
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i dont think its a secret that many frames are made for companies by a few factorys.
i think giant make their on frames, iirc they have the biggest bike factory in the world. merida make their own frames as well as frames for other manufacturers (including specialized)0 -
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Splottboy wrote:( Huh...Sorry, I was having a dream then, about bikes.) As I've been looking for about 3 months, is easy to notice similarities between many Mtb frames, in fact many are EXACTLY the same, but with diffferent companies names/paint/stickers.
So, Why pay £1,000 for X's bike when Y's is the same for £750???
Let's hear an example of any 2 frames from different companies which are exactly the same, and one costs £750 while another is £1000. Nah, that's a bit harsh, let's make it easier. Name any 2 frames from any quality manufacturer which are exactly the same.Uncompromising extremist0 -
I can't think of any. Being made by the same people doesn't mean the frame is the same.
You often see the same frame after market ie Brand X stuff and some Handsome Dog frames. Catalogue frames.0 -
I can't think of any either actually. Probably because it really isn't that common apart from with really low end frames. Manufacturers want their high end frames to be set apart from the competition, otherwise why would people buy them? Most frames are not made by the same people apart from your generic argos deathtrap.0
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orange made in the uk 8)0
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Heh, some of them anyway.Uncompromising extremist0
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Spec?Splottboy wrote:Specialized, come on down! Giant, come on down! Merida, come on down!
Now here's the rules for our viewers:
Nearly all MTB and Road frames are made by about 3 - 4 main manufacturers,
The viewers all know this, but it's "supposed" to be a secret!
So, the question is, Who makes what for who????
As Consumers, paying their Hard Earned Cash, surley it's their "RIGHT" to be told?
( Huh...Sorry, I was having a dream then, about bikes.) As I've been looking for about 3 months, is easy to notice similarities between many Mtb frames, in fact many are EXACTLY the same, but with diffferent companies names/paint/stickers.
So, Why pay £1,000 for X's bike when Y's is the same for £750???
I think the Mtb buying public has got more mugs than a PG TIp's Chimps Tea Party!
Where can we find out whats what? The "insiders" in the mag's know, why not us?!
But as above... unless its a low cost model/supermarket/halfords special I can't think of any frames the same.0 -
badly_dubbed wrote:orange made in the uk 8)
except the parts made in taiwan!
most frames are made by a either giant or merida in Taiwan. Some 'higher end' stuff is made in the US, which apparently makes it better.0 -
Apollo, Carrera and Boardman are made in the same factory, as well as cheaper older (pre Madison) Saracens, Isla bikes are made in the same factory as the above too. I found a Rocky Mountain hammer or blizzard frame in a Taiwanese catalogue and it wasn't £800 or whatever......0
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Thanks for the info Mr Teeth! Yep, confirms what I thought...that "nearly" all frames are made by a few companies. I'm not complaining though, just think we should know, that's all.
Example: The lovely lady who fought tooth and false nails using the Freedom of Information Act to discover what our lovely MP's were claiming on expenses, with our money!
Information is power.
So, now I can sleep soundly knowing that I WAS almost right, I can't wait to tell the Mrs!0 -
thomasali wrote:Apollo, Carrera and Boardman are made in the same factory, as well as cheaper older (pre Madison) Saracens, Isla bikes are made in the same factory as the above too.
Yes, and? (I don't think it's true that Apollo are made in the same factory btw). Point of origin is of little relevance, it doesn't mean that the frames are the same, or equivalent in value.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Merida, Giant and a few others act as 'vendors' to many other companies. Basically they use their facilities to construct the frame, but all the R+D is carried out by the actual company. Merida release stuff under their own name, and of course Giant does!
You see the same with other parts, forks, wheels etc.0 -
I KNOW they came out of the same factory. Only alloy frames mind! The steel apollos were from the same country but a different factory. When I left Halfords half of the ally Boardmans turned up from Thailand (Carrera/Apollo) and the other half Taiwan (all Carbons were from Taiwan) Taiwan stuff was a tiny bit better than the Thai stuff. We had so many problems with the first generation Thailand Boardmans (pin holes in welds, fork disc mounts all wonkey, no spoke tension on any wheels...... dents...... poorly fitted rear mechs, no facing on bb area of frames........overly soft gear hangers always bent in the box)0
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Hang on, you're saying in the same post that they all came from the same factory but then that they come from different countries? Is it a really big factory?Uncompromising extremist0
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Why should we know? what difference does it make?Splottboy wrote:Thanks for the info Mr Teeth! Yep, confirms what I thought...that "nearly" all frames are made by a few companies. I'm not complaining though, just think we should know, that's all.
Example: The lovely lady who fought tooth and false nails using the Freedom of Information Act to discover what our lovely MP's were claiming on expenses, with our money!
Information is power.
So, now I can sleep soundly knowing that I WAS almost right, I can't wait to tell the Mrs!
And how is that at all similar to the MPs expense scandal?0 -
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Pretty sure teh Alpine, Blood, ST4 etc are made in the UK. The hardtails I think are all furrin. Yet still priced as if they were handmade in the UK by the Queen.Uncompromising extremist0
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yeah think your right there actually!
its the sheet metal frames that are uk made iirc0 -
Northwind wrote:Pretty sure teh Alpine, Blood, ST4 etc are made in the UK. The hardtails I think are all furrin. Yet still priced as if they were handmade in the UK by the Queen.
the way i heard it was that all the springy bikes' front triangle tubes are made and welded together by reynolds, and that only the box section swingarms on the bikes are welded here from sheet aluminium. then they assemble the bits together to make a bike. not sure where the ST4 falls not having a box section swing arm. i believe all the HT frames are taiwanese made.
i never could figure out why orange bikes where so spendy, but northwind might have a point, i never realised the queen could weld.Fancy a brew?0 -
to be honest any one with a hang up about taiwanese made frames or bikes should stop cycling
Asian manufacturing is high tech, in many cases higher quality than us lazy brits would come up with and the size of their labour market makes it all affordable
its the bike companies that rip us off with lies and over inflated prices to pay for their marketing, websites and race teams
Add 60% of the market value in this country and its British made!!!0 -
OK... The reason I'd like to know is: Because I want to know. Simples!
No hang up's bout frames, just wanna know. Having met some of the top Honch's at Giant - the retail side, not manufacturing - there were a great bunch.
The Taiwaneseframes/bikes I've had were all top class, well made and rode great.
I thought my Honda Jazz was made in Japan, til I found it came from Swindon!
( Oh yeah, the guy who called me a mug, better than being the PG Tip's monkey...)0 -
A frame's a frame, brands put a mark-up on their products - plain and simple - happens the world over in every industry. Prime example is Bentley and VW.
Plus, doesn't everyone (who cycles) already know that several brands of bike are produced in the same factory? Thought that was common knowledge (to cyclists)0 -
Makes you wonder why the Giant Talons are so poor value ;-)0
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jstock wrote:its the bike companies that rip us off with lies and over inflated prices to pay for their marketing, websites and race teams
Don't forget to factor in a couple of quid for R&D.. what do you think the state of bike technology would be like without it (and I include 'low'end' bikes in that - they all benefit from the knock-on effect).
Such is the way of business in the capitalist economy we live in.. if you don't like it, don;t buy it - simples! (damn - fell for that pesky marketing!)
Make sure you don't get ripped off for your tin-foil hat - I hear most of it comes from the same factory :P0 -
So, how many identical frames under different quality brands was that again? Hang on, let's check.
Ok, none. What a shock!Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:Pretty sure teh Alpine, Blood, ST4 etc are made in the UK. The hardtails I think are all furrin. Yet still priced as if they were handmade in the UK by the Queen.
and the 22X's as well....
pretty sure the ST4 is a furrinerererererWhenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
Northwind wrote:Let's hear an example of any 2 frames from different companies which are exactly the same, and one costs £750 while another is £1000. Nah, that's a bit harsh, let's make it easier. Name any 2 frames from any quality manufacturer which are exactly the same.
Planet X Carbon SL and Willier Mortirolo are the same frame.0
