Overtraining?

freehub

Well I've done 3 rides since Saturday, all the rides I felt crap, the second of which on my own I felt good for the first 20 then ended up feeling crap, today I went out, after 2 days recovery, same amount of recovery as between the other 2, and I notice I felt crap too, not being able to push, HR seems to be going up wayyyyy to fast, my speed was not slow today, but I felt crap throughout.

Would this be a symptom of over training? I heard that over training can last for weeks to months and I don't want that to happen.

If I took 1 week off, apart from commuting (6 mile round trip) would that cure me of over training?

I'm abit surprised though, I thought overtraining would come on due to doing weeks on end of riding? I had abit of a bad knee and was not doing much cycling, but about 3 weeks ago I upped it when we went to wales, 69 mile first day, 56 the second day, then I had 1 day recovery, 50 miles after that (40 on road 10 on trainer), then the next 2 days I did 15 mile on the trainer with 20 miles commuting for each of those days.

The next 2 days after that I did 70mile chaingang and 70 mile hilly the day after, I then had 2 days recovery followed by another 3 days on the turbo with 20 mile round trip each day to get there, felt ok. Then a 120 mile mixed ride came on Saturday and I coped awfully on that, and that's when it started, since then I've done a 65 mile mixed ride on my own and had 2 days recovery, same between the 120 and 65.

I'm not a slow rider tbh and I do take more recovery than most usually, this week was probs like my usual riding week, with 4 days recovery in.

Does it sound like over training?

bristolpete

For me, thats a lot of miles. But, I am a time crunched rider so I settle for one long ride and two time trials a week.

Perhaps cut back slightly, but I am sure that others can advise you better?

Good luck. I know how hard it is not not ride, but wanting to.

Murr X

Hi Freehub,

There could be many reasons for feeling poor lately, but the most likely explanation is that you are probably stressing your body too much and not getting enough recovery. Long distance rides are a sure way of tiring you out and depending on many other factors could require a lot longer time to bounce back from than what you may imagine.

Symptoms similar to what you have described are very common with cyclists, especially those with a mentality that requires them to be training very often (perhaps more often than what is good for them) to be satisfied, and then feel like they are missing out greatly when they are not training as much as they feel they should be. Now I'm not saying that is you but it is not uncommon for people to adopt this frame of mind, and its generally not healthy or good for performance.

I very much doubt that you are "overtrained" as such and in need of a very long period of rest to get back on track. Taking it easy, relaxing, getting enough sleep and avoiding unnecessary stress (including thinking/worrying about training when you should not be) could be what you need for a little while.

All in all it is impossible to say, but I'm just throwing a few ideas out that you might be able to relate to and may be of some use.

Good luck!

Murr X

bristolpete

Good advice there. I wanted to say that bit did not know how.

Cycling is a real paradox and sometimes putting the bike down and resting is a good thing. Maybe get away for a few days sans bike?

sandbag

If you used to 50-70 mile fast rides and change to 120 that is too big leap. Workout your average weekly mileage, then increase that by no more than 10% every 2 week.

If you doing that much riding then sort your diet out off the bike. Plenty of big carb meals and up your protein. If you ate hearty off the bike you probably wouldn't be so knackered.

Sounds like the riding schedules is not your norm, doing too much and performance is going backwards. I would look at eating more.

lGet back to your nomal rides, alternate days or if back to back, get some good rest and sort your diet out.

shockedsoshocked

If your HR is going up quite easily I'd say you're probably not fatigued, you just feel a bit crap. Sometimes I feel awesome and get dropped on the first hills, other times I feel like bag of spanners and smash everyone, it just depends.

4 days recovery a week is plenty I'd say.

Scrumple

Even Carol Voderman may struggle with that gubbins.

obizzle

Scrumple wrote:

Even Carol Voderman may struggle with that gubbins.

That might be why she's not doing Countdown any more.

Bhima

Most times I "feel like crap", it's usually the following:

- dehydration
- eaten too much too soon before the ride
- not enough fuel the day before riding*
- there's a subtle headwind or gradient without me knowing
- overheating without realising**
- vibrations from a tyre pressure too high on a horrible road surface***

*especially if the ride starts off great and I am suddenly cooked out of nowhere.
**especially in this weather where you start off cold and gradually heat up, therefore, overdressing for the initial freeze
***the silent assassin. I used to ride round wondering what the heck was going on.

freehub

Well I feel totally knackered atm, just like when I've done a really long bike ride, thing, is, all I've done today is this:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/25031644

Followed by 5 or 6 miles of steady riding when I got back where I never went above 130Bpm, sort of like a warm down session, I hope it worked, I certainly felt cold!


Only 26 miles of proper riding today and I'm knackered, I've deffo ate well, I always do when I come home.

sandbag

Puzzled. You already explained you felt knackered, why did you go out again?? You implied doing 120 miles, on top of what you done before, had you beat.

freehub

What?

I did the 120 mile ride, felt awfull on it, I took 2 days off, I then did a 65 mile ride, felt crap towards the end, took 2 days off, then did the ride today earlier on in the day way before I posted this thread as I wanted to cycle to York Cycleworks to get some stuff for my bike.

Murr X

freehub wrote:

Well I feel totally knackered atm, just like when I've done a really long bike ride, thing, is, all I've done today is this:

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/25031644

Followed by 5 or 6 miles of steady riding when I got back where I never went above 130Bpm, sort of like a warm down session, I hope it worked, I certainly felt cold!


Only 26 miles of proper riding today and I'm knackered, I've deffo ate well, I always do when I come home.

It sounds like you do need to take a rest for a while, perhaps a week or thereabouts depending on how you feel. Don't be afraid to take a few days completely off the bike during this time (rather than recovery rides) and don't feel guilty for doing so or try to overcompensate later.

If you need to commute by bike then make as easy as you can and resist the urge to push it or clock up more miles. Don't be surprised if you are feeling super in about 10 days time after adequate rest and time away from cycling - which is likely what is causing you the issues you are currently experiencing so don't "feed" the problem at least for now.

Murr X

sandbag

freehub wrote:

What?

I did the 120 mile ride, felt awfull on it, I took 2 days off, I then did a 65 mile ride, felt crap towards the end, took 2 days off, then did the ride today earlier on in the day way before I posted this thread as I wanted to cycle to York Cycleworks to get some stuff for my bike.

Well two things, as we don't know exact details, could it be all the accumulated rides, leading upto the 120 miler, and doing the bigger ride for the first time as Murrx suggested took it's toll. The body needs longer time to repair for longer rides, especially if it not experienced that punishment ever. You felt like crap on the 65 miler as well , so you not fully recovered from before.

Why dont you take 5 days off and do a upper body workout instead .

Overtraining is not always the feeling of knackeredness. You can feel ok but your body won't respond. If you do a heavy day, try spinning lighter the day after and then heavy again etc. That way you get a aerobic workout but don't stress your muscles.

redddraggon

-There's no taking it easy for Will, he's thrashing it even when he reckons he isn't
-not enough beer/guiness in Will's diet.

Bhima

I don't really do long rides these days but back when I was doing them every 2 days I found that the fatigue would build up over a couple of weeks. At the start of each ride I would feel absolutely fine, but I was probably only at 95%.

Of course, a 5% decrease every time would add up to something big over time but it was quite a small difference so I didn't notice it for a while. A few weeks later, I took a week off and was fine after it. I then took more recovery between rides, but soon realised it meant I was riding less, so I dropped the time per ride and it meant I could go out every day, do a hard TT of a commute and recover within 24 hours. Nowadays, I mix it up a bit more, drink a lot more, take more 3/4-day recovery periods and feel great.

sandbag

redddraggon wrote:

-There's no taking it easy for Will, he's thrashing it even when he reckons he isn't
-not enough beer/guiness in Will's diet.

Yes but hammering it and he's undoing what been done before -Not giving the body enough time to repair itself.

Hey Will don't go out until you feel 100% again .

freehub

I wish I had a meter on my arm that had a % indicator on it.

I also wish I had a shut-down and restart button too, and a USB input.

EKIMIKE

Maybe try not to take riding too seriously, as in ditch the computer and ride on feel. I find it's very easy to 'expect' numbers ride on ride. It's not the way it works in reality. Because I get wrapped up in the numbers I end up totally screwing up the pacing on rides.

I find it very difficult not to race myself even if it's on how it felt last time. Even without a computer I compare gears from previous rides. It's a ridiculous way to ride. I hate it but I end up doing it. It's really not good! So i'm trying to bash it out of my system. I'd suggest 1) take a few days off. 2) when you get back on the bike, try to pace yourself moderately. Do this by listening to your body and not comparing numbers on a computer. 3) when you feel good again continue where you left off. Or even try to structure your riding a bit more, Use the numbers to evaluate the specific parts of rides/riding, not the overall ride. Just don't always use the numbers to dictate how you ride next time or as a determination of how fast you should be riding at any given time.

BTW i'm no expert, i don't even do this stuff... yet. It's what i'd like to do though. I need to build up my base a bit though atm.

oldwelshman

Well as sandbag said it is better to gradually increase your milage this time of year not thrash it. Probably not overtrained just tired, or maybe slight ilness, but a week recovery should be enough.
What are your targets for the year? To be honest I am not sure a 70 mile chaingang is of much use, better to do a steady 70 miler for base miles to build up endurane, as for doing 120 miles ride this time of year in this weather, why? If that is all you plan to do, long rides and chaingangs, because you enjoy it, then it is obviously fine, but if you have specific targets in mind such as shorter races and TT's not sure what your doing is best way. Even if doing several long sportives, it's still quite ear;ly for doing 120 mile rides and they can be very tiring in this weather.

chrisw12

Freehub, I thought you said in another thread that you had a coach? :?

freehub

Yea, in Manchester, I'm not in Manchester atm.

oldwelshman wrote:

Well as sandbag said it is better to gradually increase your milage this time of year not thrash it. Probably not overtrained just tired, or maybe slight ilness, but a week recovery should be enough.
What are your targets for the year? To be honest I am not sure a 70 mile chaingang is of much use, better to do a steady 70 miler for base miles to build up endurane, as for doing 120 miles ride this time of year in this weather, why? If that is all you plan to do, long rides and chaingangs, because you enjoy it, then it is obviously fine, but if you have specific targets in mind such as shorter races and TT's not sure what your doing is best way. Even if doing several long sportives, it's still quite ear;ly for doing 120 mile rides and they can be very tiring in this weather.

The chaingang is training for racing, I should be perfectly fine with 70 miles, I hope that after a rest and a couple of really hilly 70 milers I'll be fine with 100+ miles again, I was doing a club ride each saturday week on week which had a minimum mileage of 110 miles and the highest was 175.

I don't think it's because it's winter, the reason I think this is from experience, last winter I was doing plenty of long rides, it's feb now anyway it'll be march in a week.

sampras38

Prior to cycling and tennis I spent years in bodybuilding, and have always had a heavy interest in fitness generally. One of the biggest mistakes people make is over-training, because as already said above, you just don't want to stop because you enjoy it so much. In my gym days I would often take a week off and do absolutely nothing, just to let the muscles recoupe a bit. I came back strong and that way I continued to make gains.

I suggest 5-7 days of complete rest, then get back on the bike. Don't do anything at all, no short rides, no turbo sessions, nothing. If you commute to work by bike then ride slowly.

Keep an eye on your diet in the rest week and I'll bet you'll feel much better when you return to the bike.

freehub

I think I found one problem already, caffeine!

Yesterday for probs the first time in god knows how long I drank nothing that contained caffeine, I went to sleep at 11:30, I woke up at 6:30 feeling wide awake and had some energy too!, I went back to bed though because I was not sure if I really had enough sleep and I had nothing to do at that time, I then woke up at 10 feeling less awake though

Bhima

Are you sure that's the only problem?

If it's any consolation I felt like crap yesterday and, for once, did NOT have a coffee. I had to cycle all the way to Pott Shrigley and then back through Wilmslow to sort out various business though, so I had no choice but to get on with it.

Although I was fuelled up to the MAX, I felt hungry, which eventually got so bad that I could have swore my stomach was sucking all the blood out of my legs or something... :? I eat 2 bananas within a 20 minute period and was drinking plenty but bananas didn't stop the hunger.

I didn't get much sleep the night before and it can leave you with an odd feeling of never being able to eat enough to stop hunger as well as slower reaction times and yesterday wasn't very pleasant because of these and other side-effects.

sampras38

freehub wrote:

I think I found one problem already, caffeine!

Yesterday for probs the first time in god knows how long I drank nothing that contained caffeine, I went to sleep at 11:30, I woke up at 6:30 feeling wide awake and had some energy too!, I went back to bed though because I was not sure if I really had enough sleep and I had nothing to do at that time, I then woke up at 10 feeling less awake though

Classic response from Freehub.

;-)

Murr X

freehub wrote:

I think I found one problem already, caffeine!

Do cut out the caffeine entirely for a couple of weeks at least. It is a very easy drug to become tolerant to and for those that are hooked on it coming off will make you feel pretty low for a while - a problem that would have never arisen in the first place had they been sensible and only consumed it infrequently.

I still think that you need rest though.

Murr X

Murr X

freehub wrote:

The chaingang is training for racing, I should be perfectly fine with 70 miles, I hope that after a rest and a couple of really hilly 70 milers I'll be fine with 100+ miles again, I was doing a club ride each saturday week on week which had a minimum mileage of 110 miles and the highest was 175.

If it is road racing that you are aiming for then don't be riding anything like 110 - 175 miles. That is not what you need.

Murr X

freehub

Murr X wrote:

freehub wrote:

The chaingang is training for racing, I should be perfectly fine with 70 miles, I hope that after a rest and a couple of really hilly 70 milers I'll be fine with 100+ miles again, I was doing a club ride each saturday week on week which had a minimum mileage of 110 miles and the highest was 175.

If it is road racing that you are aiming for then don't be riding anything like 110 - 175 miles. That is not what you need.

Murr X

I'm not going to stop doing rides like that, I am aiming for road racing but tbh I love doing long rides and I'm not going to sacrifice them just for racing, I don't think I need to.

oldwelshman

freehub wrote:

Murr X wrote:

freehub wrote:

The chaingang is training for racing, I should be perfectly fine with 70 miles, I hope that after a rest and a couple of really hilly 70 milers I'll be fine with 100+ miles again, I was doing a club ride each saturday week on week which had a minimum mileage of 110 miles and the highest was 175.

If it is road racing that you are aiming for then don't be riding anything like 110 - 175 miles. That is not what you need.

Murr X

I'm not going to stop doing rides like that, I am aiming for road racing but tbh I love doing long rides and I'm not going to sacrifice them just for racing, I don't think I need to.

Depends on what your goals and targets are and how well you want to do.
I also enjoy long rides, but my targets are focussed on track racing so I do not do the longer rides for up to 8 weeks before major track events, I do more shorther duration, higher intensity rides. Do long rides at other times though but not in excess of 100 miles.
You will be great if ypu plan doing 130 mile races but don't think theres many of those in UK?