Training plan

fastercyclist

Hey guys this is just a request to be pointed towards a good training plan. I just need an idea of what to do. I have a road bike (P:X); turbo trainer and a mountain bike. Physically I'm in my early 20s, weigh 155lbs and slightly out of shape (resting heart rate 60 versus 45 in October). For a ball park figure I average 17mph around Devon but these are undulating routes. Max HR 204 - lactate threshold around 180.

I have unlimited time, can cycle 6 hours a day all week around if that's what the plans call for. I would rather have a plan that involved 5 more hours cycling each week but made me stronger then one that didn't. Signed up for 1 race each weekend or attempting to enter them.

If you want a goal to help me with which plan/s to go for I just want to maximise my points from races over the year. (Fresh 4th cat currently).

Thanks. Mention if it'd help to have any more data/what data. Just not sure where to start looking for good plans or what would be a good plan.

LJAR

I have a copy of Joe Friel's training bible that is yours for free if you like? It helps to create a really detailed plan that will work on your weaknesses to improve your cycling.

Its tells you how to find individual training levels based on power or HR etc.

Anyway, send me a PM if you are interested.

fastercyclist

Okay it seems a bit quiet so I'll just post up what I was thinking of. Feel free to shoot it down or suggest changes.

Saturday: Race
Sunday: 1 hour tempo on Turbo as recovery ride heart rate <165
Monday: 60 miles + 2 x 20 minute Turbo intervals [evening]
Tuesday: 25 miles + 90 minute Turbo plan http://www.turbotraining.co.uk/indoor_cycling_workout.php?id=335
Wednesday: Hill repeats (90 minutes)
Thursday: 80 miles
Friday: Full rest

EDIT: Just saw above

inseine

It's either too much or you should be a 1st cat.

Infamous

pm sent.

chrisw12

Unlimited time to train? You don't want to sponsor me to be your training buddy do you.

Pross

Monday and Tuesday seem to be overdoing things a bit. Plus, you'll probably find most races taking place on a Sunday (at least they do in my part of the world).

fastercyclist

Pross wrote:

Monday and Tuesday seem to be overdoing things a bit. Plus, you'll probably find most races taking place on a Sunday (at least they do in my part of the world).

So if I get rid of the 90 minute plan and shift the 2 x 20 to the 25 mile day that should make it better. Otherwise broadly in the right ball park ?

All the races I've sent off entry forms to are on Saturday's perhaps it'll change later in the year. Just really a check to see if I'm doing it right (roughly).

jibberjim

Your doing lots of miles, and all your workouts are long, and you spend very little of that doing hard efforts - what are your saturday races? How are you failing to get your top results in those races at the moment - ie what is limiting?

Looking at the plan you'd have to conclude that your races are long - 3 hours or more, and you currently have no problem going with any attack, and aren't getting dropped on short hills, it's simply the duration which eventually floors you. That strikes me as a pretty unusual limiter, so a pretty unusual training plan.

You shouldn't be creating a plan, until you know where you are now, and where you want to go, otherwise you've no idea if the plan will get you between those two locations.

fastercyclist

jibberjim wrote:

Your doing lots of miles, and all your workouts are long, and you spend very little of that doing hard efforts - what are your saturday races? How are you failing to get your top results in those races at the moment - ie what is limiting?

Looking at the plan you'd have to conclude that your races are long - 3 hours or more, and you currently have no problem going with any attack, and aren't getting dropped on short hills, it's simply the duration which eventually floors you. That strikes me as a pretty unusual limiter, so a pretty unusual training plan.

You shouldn't be creating a plan, until you know where you are now, and where you want to go, otherwise you've no idea if the plan will get you between those two locations.

That's the plan, not what I've been doing

What I've been doing is Turbo sessions, hill repeats and riding 20-25 mile rides at the edge of my fitness ability. The first race is tomorrow but I'm entered for another 2 after that falling on Saturdays. First one will be a 32 mile e/1/2/3/4. I'll post up tomorrow how it went as it'll give an indicator of weaknesses.

fastercyclist

Well I said I'd post up after the race [32 mile e/1/2/3/4 handicapped race / spring pursuit no 1] so you guys can see my weaknesses. I was in the second group to leave and was at the back from the beginning. Found it a bit slow and some guys broke off the front. I just overtook everyone I was with and tried to bridge to them only to find the other group behind me came along for the ride too. That was a bit annoying. Quickly found myself at the back again. I had no problems with the group I set off with. But as faster groups with bigger handicaps began to join us I really suffered. By the time everyone came together I was really suffering on the flat ground into the wind. I just couldn't match them without having a high HR (190-195). I stuck with them for a few miles but I got dropped at a U turn which led into a slope. Trundled along and finished about 3 minutes down on main group.

I think I was stronger then (average) in the group I set off with on the climbs but I just couldn't deal with the flat ground at high speeds - the wind didn't help but everyone else managed to deal with it. So I guess that's what I need help with primarily. Also dealing with distances.

Learnt a few things. I had 1.75 litres of water on me. Everyone else seemed to have these tiny little bottles.

Weighed in at 149 lbs afterwards so need a drink or two

Some stats from the Polar: exercise time 1 hour 20 minutes. 182 average heart rate. maximum 200. Time spent between 129-169: 12 minutes. Average speed 22.4 mph max 35mph. Ave cad 87/ 117 max.

inseine

Well fastercyclist well done for doing it. I still maintain what I said before, but in response to your initial question it's impossible to say if it's a good plan without knowing what you've been doing to get you to your current level.

fastercyclist

inseine wrote:

Well fastercyclist well done for doing it. I still maintain what I said before, but in response to your initial question it's impossible to say if it's a good plan without knowing what you've been doing to get you to your current level.

Okay. A normal week for me at the moment is 3 20-25 mile rides and 1 or 2 days of hill repeats. Hill repeats are done in the big ring on hills around 16-20% gradient for about 70-90 minutes. The 20-25 mile rides are done at a pace that averages out at around 17mph and usually 170 HR average. That's it and what I've been doing since January. I've done two rides of 40 miles since January. One weeks with 1 day on the hills I'd go on the Turbo trainer for 90 minutes. I hope that gives a much clearer indication of what I've been up to.

twotyred

Are you sure about the gradient of the hills you are using? Frankly I don't believe you are cycling up a 20% gradient in the big ring- even using your mountain bike big ring.

You said your ave HR during the race was 180bpm yet training you average 170bpm. Sounds like you need to up the intensity of your training rides so you are actually training closer to race intensity.

You also posted earlier you ride 1hr tempo as a recovery ride. Tempo is too much for a recovery ride. There's a body of opinion that says not to bother with recovery rides. If you need to recover then rest properly and get back on the bike when you have the energy to train hard.

fastercyclist

twotyred wrote:

Are you sure about the gradient of the hills you are using? Frankly I don't believe you are cycling up a 20% gradient in the big ring- even using your mountain bike big ring.

You said your ave HR during the race was 180bpm yet training you average 170bpm. Sounds like you need to up the intensity of your training rides so you are actually training closer to race intensity.

You also posted earlier you ride 1hr tempo as a recovery ride. Tempo is too much for a recovery ride. There's a body of opinion that says not to bother with recovery rides. If you need to recover then rest properly and get back on the bike when you have the energy to train hard.

Sign posted mate - I live on the edge of the hills and I can assure you the hills here are really that steep Some shallower ones but I stick on the steep ones and treat it as a substitute to weight lifting. I also said 16-20% I'm more of a hill-specialist then anything else - in fact my flat ground riding is shit as shown by getting dropped today.

I thought training at such high intensity wasn't a good idea except for intervals? If it's better to train at a higher intensity I can dig deeper for it I suppose - but that 180 average was eyeballs out with a grimace. :P Okay so I up the intensity of some of my rides to try and ride like I'm racing.

chrisw12

fastercyclist wrote:

inseine wrote:

Well fastercyclist well done for doing it. I still maintain what I said before, but in response to your initial question it's impossible to say if it's a good plan without knowing what you've been doing to get you to your current level.

Hill repeats are done in the big ring on hills around 16-20% gradient for about 70-90 minutes.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

jibberjim

fastercyclist wrote:

Sign posted mate - I live on the edge of the hills and I can assure you the hills here are really that steep Some shallower ones but I stick on the steep ones and treat it as a substitute to weight lifting. I also said 16-20% I'm more of a hill-specialist then anything else - in fact my flat ground riding is shoot as shown by getting dropped today.

So you can comfortably do the hill repeats 1 minute at around 8w/kg (roughly what's required to ride a 50x25 at 40rpm up a 16% 500m (of riding) hill). So there's no way you should be getting dropped in the handicap unless you only weigh around 50kg's when you might start being limited by the absolute watts you can put out if the speed gets particularly high.

The speed can't've been that high though, as the average was only 22mph you said.

As to the race, your move to the front which dragged everyone along shows you're limited by your jump, this could be mental - ie you just screwed up by not going hard enough, or it could be an actual limit you need to address so you don't just pull people with you whenever you try and leave the bunch - ie you need to add some training to help with it.

Why in a handicap were you hanging at the back of your group - why aren't you there working with the others to stay away / catch the first group?

tbh, if you can genuinely do repeated 1 minutes at 8w/kg then you're probably only lacking in tactics, and you possibly have the aerodynamics of a bus, because that's likely better than most of the people in the race could manage. I suspect the hills are somewhat shallower than you suggest though.

Bronzie

fastercyclist wrote:

I'm more of a hill-specialist then anything else - in fact my flat ground riding is shoot as shown by getting dropped today.

Maybe it's your bunch riding skills that are poor (following wheels) rather than lacking power - are you used to riding in chaingangs?

fastercyclist

Bronzie wrote:

fastercyclist wrote:

I'm more of a hill-specialist then anything else - in fact my flat ground riding is shoot as shown by getting dropped today.

Maybe it's your bunch riding skills that are poor (following wheels) rather than lacking power - are you used to riding in chaingangs?

No, I only ever rode with 1 group of people before and that was a one off. I did find it hard keeping contact with the wheel in front. Had to keep accelerating then not pedalling...repeated over a lot. I don't get where the "right" place to be is actually. Is it better to be between two people in front of you or directly behind someone?

EDIT: we just realised my back wheel is bent and rubbing against the brakes once per revolution. I did feel something brake me when I was sprinting in part of the race. This might explain things on the flats a bit more? :shock: But yeah - I'm out to gather any advice on general training guys? How many long rides a week? What % of HR etc - got unlimited time.

Bronzie

Join a local club that organises chaingangs to improve your bunch riding. Riding in the wheels without wasting energy will help you enormously.

With regard to writing a training plan..........well, if you don't want to employ a coach to point you in the right direction, then the Friel "Cyclists Training Bible" is as good a place to start as any.

Tom Butcher

Any training schedule has to be sustainable - physically and psychologically. Physically different people can handle different training loads but I'd be surprised if you could sustain the original programme you set out without a fair amount of background in the sport. I know I couldn't but then again I am a veteran so you may find you can recover better than me.

The psychological aspect is the other one. Unless it's fun OR you are getting paid then why do it. Some people get pleasure from being good and winning - which is fair enough. I'd suggest you'll find it easier to motivate yourself if you are riding with others a couple of times a week though - a ride with mates is something to look forward to a bit more than another 4 hours turning the pedals on the same old roads.

Even if you don't mind training alone at all times I'd do as others suggest and fit a chain gang in there just for the group riding skills.