Indicating at roundabouts?

mudcovered

fatandwheezing wrote:

My mum learned in the 80s, and she was told to indicate at all times when she changed direction.

I learned about 8 years ago, and was told only if there is someone who may be affected by your change, to the point where if I indicated but there was nobody around to see it could be a minor on my test.

This is quite a recent change to the way new drivers are taught (according to a driving instructor friend of mine) and it is how the IAM teach drivers as well. Basically indicate if there is someone around to see it is the current teaching. I think its designed to encourage better observation and awareness of your surroundings.

indicating at all times seems much safer to me.

This is what I was taught and still pretty much do. It means that if you have an observational failure for some reason there is some chance that the vehicle or person you didn't see has time to react to your mistake.

Current teaching would have you indicating to leave a roundabout after going straight across if there are other vehicles or pedestrians around.

Mike

soy_sauce

I have been learning driving for the pass few months and i been told that you suppose to indicate left when you passed the exit before the one you are going to exit at the round around.

owenlars

My observation is that about 50% of all road users don't indicate at all, (including cyclists). They seem to rely on some form of paranormal vibration to transmit their intentions to the world at large.

For what it's worth I was taught to signal left to leave a roundabout after you'd past the last exist before the one you wanted. Mind you that was sometime back when men with red flags walked in front of cars.

cougie

This is scary that some people really dont know how to negotiate roundabouts ! Its not exactly rocket science. Indicate before changing direction. Same as you should anywhere else.

cee

Rolf F wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

mean, how many drivers re-read the highway code after they've passed their tests?

Clearly not the 'professional' First Bus drivers in Leeds who seem to think it is OK to veer into an occupied (by me!) cycle lane without checking their mirrors or even indicating.

Still, that's what happens if you run recruitment campaigns in special needs classes. :roll:

you know what you get when you pay peanuts.....monkeys.

I passed my driving test in 1996, so 14 years ago....I was taught to indicate when leaving a roundabout in the manner described by LIT.

roger_merriman

I like roundabouts, I treat them like a car, I'm quite happy steering/braking while indicating so I do.

never a problem.

Peasoup

Eau Rouge wrote:

As a driver I've never really seen the point of indicating on roundabouts. Usually it's entirely irrelevent to me...

Obviously indicating is pretty much irrelevant to the driver doing the indicating. After all it does nothing for the driver indicating other than to wear out the stalk attached to the steering column.

However, it does provide important information to other road users regarding your intention. Courteous driving and all that. Agreed, a bad signal is no use to anyone, but if you are able why not?

Separate point regarding (mainly mini-roundabouts) that have an exit straight-ahead and a right turn. If I approach and want to continue straight-ahead, but see traffic waiting at the opposite junction I will indicate left to let them know I don't intend to turn right. The other vehicle can probably derive my intention from the attitude of the vehicle alone, but the additional indication reinforces this intention. BTW Was taught this on an advanced roadcraft course a couple of years back. It's not a required technique but if you can provide other road users with as much clear information as possible surely it can only help?

Eau Rouge

Peasoup wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

As a driver I've never really seen the point of indicating on roundabouts. Usually it's entirely irrelevent to me...

Obviously indicating is pretty much irrelevant to the driver doing the indicating. After all it does nothing for the driver indicating other than to wear out the stalk attached to the steering column.

However, it does provide important information to other road users regarding your intention. Courteous driving and all that. Agreed, a bad signal is no use to anyone, but if you are able why not?

Separate point regarding (mainly mini-roundabouts) that have an exit straight-ahead and a right turn. If I approach and want to continue straight-ahead, but see traffic waiting at the opposite junction I will indicate left to let them know I don't intend to turn right. The other vehicle can probably derive my intention from the attitude of the vehicle alone, but the additional indication reinforces this intention. BTW Was taught this on an advanced roadcraft course a couple of years back. It's not a required technique but if you can provide other road users with as much clear information as possible surely it can only help?

I thought it was clear I meant that it was irrelevent to me how other people on roudabouts indicated. Glad to clear that up.
Indicating, on a rondabout or anywhere else, does not provide important information. It tells me someone has activated the indicators, nothing else. They might not know they have done it, they might have done it 2 minutes ago and not turned them off yet, they might mean they want to turn down the road I'm waiting on, they might want to pull into the house after they pass me. It tells me nothing important. The rare exception being when they are in front of me heading in the same direction but wish to turn left or right, and then their indicator really tells me they might be about to slow down, but since 90% of drivers wait until after they have braked before indicating anyway, it becomes pointless.

Your description of what happens on a mini-roundabout is to encourage really bad driving in the other party. If you don't indicate, they don't take the risk that you aren't going to come around the roundabout and so don't pull out in front of you. Putting a flashing light on does not mean you aren't coming around the roundabout to them, it means you've turned your indicator on. It changes nothing, and if they pull out based on the indicator they are very bad drivers. Thats as true on any roundabout, mini or otherwise, and thats my fundamental problem with indicating on them. Being told by an indicator that the car on the roundabout isn't coming past you so you can drive off in fornt of it when you otherwise weren't sure where they were going is very bad driving.

Kiblams

Eau Rouge Do you drive a Merc, BMW or Audi by any chance?

Surf-Matt

I was one of the 1% of BMW customers that ticked the option marked "Indicators" - the dealer was rather shocked.

I also have a sticker for the rear marked "sorry about my driving but what do you expect?"

Eau Rouge

Kiblams wrote:

Eau Rouge Do you drive a Merc, BMW or Audi by any chance?

Eau Rouge wrote:

I drive a BMW so naturally I don't indicate on roundabouts. Well, I do, but I treat the roundabout as if it wasn't there and indicate as if it was any other junction.

The start of my first post in the thread. I used to drive a VW but eventually concluded that since I drive like a BMW driver anyway it's better for everyone if I warn them by actually having a BMW. It still confuses people when I let them out of junctions etc.

Beeblebrox

I find some of the quieter roundabouts dodgier - with not many cars around they seem to think it's okay to overtake and cut across my path going round. I'm always stupefied as I belt it going round t'bouts,

Paulie W

Eau Rouge wrote:

I thought it was clear I meant that it was irrelevent to me how other people on roudabouts indicated. Glad to clear that up.
Indicating, on a rondabout or anywhere else, does not provide important information. It tells me someone has activated the indicators, nothing else. They might not know they have done it, they might have done it 2 minutes ago and not turned them off yet, they might mean they want to turn down the road I'm waiting on, they might want to pull into the house after they pass me. It tells me nothing important. The rare exception being when they are in front of me heading in the same direction but wish to turn left or right, and then their indicator really tells me they might be about to slow down, but since 90% of drivers wait until after they have braked before indicating anyway, it becomes pointless.

I'm sorry but you are pretty much talking rubbish but you know that right?

Indicating clearly does provide important information. I agree that no-one should rely purely on this information and the speed at which someone is travelling, where they are pointed, etc should also be taken into account when making a judgement but failure to indicate whether on a roundabout or turning into a side road etc creates all kinds of confusion for other road-users. In a world where indicators are the expectation, not indicating is pretty flippin' idiotic and yet more and more people in my experience dont bother any more. Presumably because they are all as enlightened as you Eau Rouge

Eau Rouge

Paulie W wrote:

In a world where indicators are the expectation,

You use the roads. Do you really think we live in that world?
Like I said, I treat roundabouts like other road junctions and indicate as if the roundabout wasn't there. What confusion does that cause, other than to bad drivers who would otherwise drive out into my path and cut me up, maybe even causing an accident?

Surf-Matt

Not indicating = poor driving every time.

I do suffer from a near mental short circuit when driving - IAM and Police training but drive a BMW. My brain can't decide whether to use the training or ignore it all and try and out-arrogance everyone else off the road.

Porgy

I was entering a small roundabout in east London a few years ago behind a car that didn;t indicate. I expected him to go straight on but he didn't - he went all the way round - causing me to have to do an emergency stop. when I confronted him about his lack of use of indicators he said he couldn't indicate going right round the roundabout so he didn;t bother at all. I contended that he should have indicated right - that way I wouldn't have assumed that he was going to out of my way when I reached the roundabout. He told me to f*ck off.

Eau Rouge

Porgy wrote:

I was entering a small roundabout in east London a few years ago behind a car that didn;t indicate. I expected him to go straight on but he didn't - he went all the way round - causing me to have to do an emergency stop. when I confronted him about his lack of use of indicators he said he couldn't indicate going right round the roundabout so he didn;t bother at all. I contended that he should have indicated right - that way I wouldn't have assumed that he was going to out of my way when I reached the roundabout. He told me to f*ck off.

Use of indicators to tell the car behind you might be about to slow down.
Use of indicators as if it was any other type of junction.

Yep, he was wrong you were right, but I would have indicated if I was him.

Porgy

Eau Rouge wrote:

Use of indicators to tell the cyclist behind you might be about to slow down.
Use of indicators as if it was any other type of junction.

Yep, he was wrong you were right, but I would have indicated if I was him.

non-inclusive correction

bails87

Eau Rouge
I almost see what you're getting at, but are you one of those annoying people who indicates *right*, whilst moving to the *left* to take, what is for you, the third exit?

When I haven't seen you enter the roundabout and you're approaching me whilst indicating right, I can assume from the signal you're giving that you're going to continue turning right, around the roundabout. But if you actually turn left, then that's just stupid. Your argument fails, because you're going to turn left, therefore you won't be on the roundabout, therefore if I (correctly) interpret a left signal to mean you'll be turning off and so I pull out, you won't be on the roundabout, so no collision.

Saying 'people shouldn't indicate because if they get it wrong there could be a crash' doesn't allow you to (ironically) indicate incorrectly and make up your own rules.

Surely telling people you're going to move to the right, but then moving left is dangerous and misleading, I certainly don't know of any instructors who would recommend it.

It's not 'any other junction', it's a roundabout.

lost_in_thought

Porgy wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

Use of indicators to tell the car or cyclist or bus or motorcyclist or horse rider or horse-drawn vehicle or traction engine or farm vehicle or fire engine or ambulance or mobility scooter or lorry or milk float or salt spreader behind you might be about to slow down.
Use of indicators as if it was any other type of junction.

Yep, he was wrong you were right, but I would have indicated if I was him.

correction

If you're going to be (pedantically) inclusive at least do it properly....


( :roll: )

Porgy

lost_in_thought wrote:

Porgy wrote:

Eau Rouge wrote:

Use of indicators to tell the car or cyclist or bus or motorcyclist or horse rider or horse-drawn vehicle or traction engine or farm vehicle or fire engine or ambulance or mobility scooter or lorry or milk float or salt spreader behind you might be about to slow down.
Use of indicators as if it was any other type of junction.

Yep, he was wrong you were right, but I would have indicated if I was him.

correction

If you're going to be (pedantically) inclusive at least do it properly....


( :roll: )

Well we are on a cyclists' website, and I was riding my bike in the example not a car.

I've amnended my correction above to be entirely non-inclusive.

Eau Rouge

bails87 wrote:

Eau Rouge are you one of those annoying people ...

Sounds like me, coming up to the roundabout I'm turning "right" so I indicate this. Anyone behind gets the message I might slow down here, to make the turn rather than just go straight on.
Lets see what you are going to do here.
I'm indicating right, so you think I'm coming past you to an exit after you. You decide if there is enough room to pull out in front of me safely or not. If you decide there is, then where I go is irrelevent, so it's only the case where you don't think there is enough room/time to pull out that we care about here.
You think it's stupid of me not to indicate left as it means what, that you could then decide that "ohh he's too close or going too fast to allow me to pull out here, but ah, look, he's indicating left so he can't possible mean to keep going past me, I'll pull out in front of him then.....oh shi<crash> That makes sense.
Actually, I'm now indicating left because, having come onto the roundabout intending to turn right I, naturally, took the inside lane around the roundabout, but now that I want to come off at the junction past you, I indicate left to move into the left hand lane to come off the roundabout, and then this guy just drives straight out in front of me, I had nowhere to go.
Or, actually, you don't look at my indicators at all, either I come around past you, so you don't move, or I turn left through the lane I'm in and off the roundabout. It takes far less than the interval of a flashing indicator to see I've started to turn left, but if it's that close a call, shouldn't you be staying where you are anyway? And no, I don't usually get stuck waiting to enter roundabouts.

bails87

Eau Rouge
But you shouldn;t start indicating left until after you've gone past the last junction before the one you're taking.

So if you're driving towards me whilst indicating left, and then you go past me, then you've done something wrong. If you indicate properly, the situation you've described simply doesn't happen.