hi viz science

wyadvd

has anyone tried the showers pass jacket ??? It comes in yellow too but urban hunter only do the black.

rjsterry

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

JimmyPippa

I don't disagree with anything you have written in your last post, however I still want a darker (Red or Black) gilet with loads of reflectives stripes.

I know not a gillet, but red (or black and liberally dosed with scotchlite

http://www.zyro.co.uk/product-category/Clothing/Waterproof-x0020-Jackets/id/AL22EVO.aspx

A niche in the market there. I have the older version in black, and while a good waterproof jacket for days like today, and fine for really cold days, it is way to warm for more springlike, but still dark nights. Time to write a nice letter to a manufacturer (Endura do custom clothing, but there is probably a minimum order).

I also found this - not cycle specific, but might be worth a closer look

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karrimor-Mens-Viz-Running-Gilet/dp/B000YPWQE4

downfader

rjsterry wrote:

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

JimmyPippa

I don't disagree with anything you have written in your last post, however I still want a darker (Red or Black) gilet with loads of reflectives stripes.

I know not a gillet, but red (or black and liberally dosed with scotchlite

http://www.zyro.co.uk/product-category/Clothing/Waterproof-x0020-Jackets/id/AL22EVO.aspx

A niche in the market there. I have the older version in black, and while a good waterproof jacket for days like today, and fine for really cold days, it is way to warm for more springlike, but still dark nights. Time to write a nice letter to a manufacturer (Endura do custom clothing, but there is probably a minimum order).

I also found this - not cycle specific, but might be worth a closer look

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Karrimor-Mens-Viz-Running-Gilet/dp/B000YPWQE4

My Dad uses the Karrimor for running. TBH the reflectives on it are cr*p, they are too small and too few. Wouldnt use that on the bike myself, especially if you were to use a rucksack as well. :?

wyadvd

somehting tells me this is QUALITY:

http://www.showerspass.com/products.asp ... ll+Trainer

jedster

but I do spend a significant part of the year commuting in twilight when people *should* use lights, but numpties (in motor vehicles, and on bikes) don't. In these situations, bright bike lights, and dayglow colours work well. reflectives don't.

I agree. I'm very confident in total darkness that my lights and reflective bits will get me seen. It's dusk and dawn or overcast and raining that makes me feel vulnerable and thats when I tend to reach for the hi-viz tabbard

downfader

wyadvd wrote:

somehting tells me this is QUALITY:

http://www.showerspass.com/products.asp ... ll+Trainer

Like the look of that.

Mr Spigot

I am a cyclist and a motorist. Over the last 10 years while driving I have had two occasions where I have very nearly wiped out a cyclist. On both occasions it has been at night and raining. The first was two lady cyclists riding towards me as I was about to pull out of a junction. They had no lights and wore black and it was only a slight perception of movement that stopped me seconds before I would have driven right across them. The second was as I slowed coming up to a wide junction and looking right and left, was about to turn out when again, I sensed a movement and saw a cyclist right in front of me. He had (dim) lights on front and back but was dressed all in black, on a black bike, with no reflectors on the wheels. Side on he was invisible.
Now my eyesight is good, I don't need glasses to drive, but in dark, wet conditions it is a fact that light colours show up a million times better than black. It only takes a momentary lapse of concentration on a drivers part, adjusting the radio, lighting a fag, and the invisible cyclist becomes another accident statistic.
Lights front and back are a no brainer, but reflective gear and preferably light colours will show up when your lights may not be visible.

Special_Iced

antfly wrote:

Some people would suit one of these.


This isn`t yellow.

What jacket is that? I really like it.

antfly

I think it`s for horse riding but don`t let that stop you.
http://tackandpetsupplies.co.uk/zencart ... 501f56cb07
EDIT it`s an all round sports jacket.

shouldbeinbed

good point Mr Spigot, bright colours also register quicker and better in your peripheral vision too.

at the end of the day you're riding a bike which to the vast majority of fellow drivers would seem to make you look like coco the clown anyway whether you're stark naked, hi'viz head to toe or dressed in a tuxedo that makes James Bond look shabby.

I'd equate clothing to lights too.

my lights make me more visible when I switch them on to make them bright and high viz than when I leave them turned off and they're all dark.

Special_Iced

Thanks for that. I know pink is a cleche but most womens cycling gear is just a slightly different cut version of the mens stuff. Under the helmet and behing the glasses, it can be hard to tell who's underneath.

It tends to annoy me when people say things like 'cheers mate' when I give way. I can bareley resist replying 'err, helloooooo'.

antfly

I take it you are of the female persuasion?

Special_Iced

Ha ha, does it show?

antfly

Not from where i`m sitting. :shock:

McTyke

It would be almost impossible to conduct a 'proper' scientific study to address this issue. You'd have to recruit millions of cyclists and ask them to alternatve between a black jacket and a hi-vis jacket each day over a period of several years, then collect their accident reports to get enough data that controls for other variables.

The problem with looking at general accident statistics is that you can draw a correct conclusion for the wrong reason. E.g. Hi-Vis jacket-wearing cyclists have slightly fewer accidents than black jacket-wearing cyclists because the former are more visible, whereas the lower accident rate, if real, could be due to other factors (e.g. cyclists who choose hi-vis jackets are more concerned about safety and less likely to take risks).

Having said all that, common sense suggests that wearing hi-vis clothing should help a little to prevent some of these accidents.

Soul Boy

downfader wrote:

Wasnt there also a German study too on building sites that found a "saturation point" in hiviz where when everyone wears flouro yellow how nobody takes any more notice, but those that actually need it if its limited to them it works.

As a side note, got in a conversation a while back at work and this matey pipes up how all builders and workmen wear it. He said you could probably get away with some kind of subversive activity if you wear it, as people would glance and go "ahh workman" and just carry on by. :?

Criminals are using High Viz so they don't get noticed...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... l-heist.do

saladfunky

All you have to do is drive a car on a wet day with poor visibility and the cyclists who wear lighter brighter colours catch the eye more than those in black or grey gear. You don't need to look at statistical data to see this. It is dangerous out there on those roads and I'd rather be seen. At night a light jacket probably makes little difference but the scotchlite stuff is excellent alongside good lights.
keep cycling, don't get squashed!! :!:

Craggers

I drove past RAF Alconburythe other day and the guys at the gate were in their camo fatigues...with hi viz tabards on!? well, they were yanks

Craggers

Also...on the crims using hi vis topic...I was speaking to a guy from cambridge council at a training course and apparently some member of the publiuc rang him up and asked when they were replacing all the paving they dug up outside her house... turns out a couple of guys in hi vis jackets turned up in a van and ripped up several hundred quids worth of granite slabs....course noone said anything because they looked "official" in their hi vis

saladfunky

Craggers wrote:

I drove past RAF Alconburythe other day and the guys at the gate were in their camo fatigues...with hi viz tabards on!? well, they were yanks

That is Funny

neil²

Back to the original question. The answers are yes and no.

There was Cochrane Review and paper in Accident Analysis & Prevention in 2004. This review (i.e. they systematically search out research that others have done and try to form a conclusion based on lots of studies) basically concluded that the usual visibility aids work. They DO increase detectability and ALSO recognition if you make sure that you use standard type visibility aids. These are different things - there's a lag between detecting an object and recognising what that object is, and that time lag might mean the difference between hitting the cyclist or braking in time.

[you can stop here if you're already bored... I'm getting technical now... ]

However..... it is very very difficult to prove a change in real accident stats for ethical and logistical reasons. So, no one has done a decent study on that, and I think that it would be practically impossible to do.

The reason it would be so difficult is that you would need to match two groups of cyclists with similar attitudes and behaviour (i.e. risk taking, routes, speed, etc.). Then you need a big enough sample size to make sure that you get enough deaths so that it isn't just a measure of chance accidents. This would need 1000s of cyclists to wear hi vis, and forcing another matched set of 1000s to not wear hi vis. I hope that you get the idea of why it might be unethical and difficult to directly link to accidents.

The Cochrane Review is here
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003438.html

(These are the gold standard in unbiased review documents.)

bolshiebob

I spend little time on the roads but I still find it odd that I go out so often in black (with little bit of yellow flash) expecting everyone to see me.

When I look around I see lot of commuting cyclists in Hi Viz while the fst boys favour invisibility.

vorsprung

Always Tyred wrote:

You don't have to look THAT horrific in high vis....



(and its so cheap, too..... :? )[/img]

It is not cheap

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=43812

My current gliet is one of these in "fireball" colour

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Gore_ ... 360048354/

but I got it on special a year or more ago, it was about 30 quid. Has great back relfectives

dilemna

The point about hi-viz or Scotchlite as I understand it is that when light is shone on it in the dark it illuminates or reflects light. Last week I was walking along the pavement when a cyclist in a yellow jacket with hi-viz Scotchlite gilet on went by. I shone my bike light on him testing the power of my light and this guy still lit up like a christmas tree even 400m up the road as he disappeared into the distance. I wouldn't ride at night without it. During the day I wear bright yellow. I have 2 sets of panniers red or yellow with Scotchlite silver patches on all surfaces.

shouldbeinbed

dilemna wrote:

The point about hi-viz or Scotchlite as I understand it is that when light is shone on it in the dark it illuminates or reflects light. Last week I was walking along the pavement when a cyclist in a yellow jacket with hi-viz Scotchlite gilet on went by. I shone my bike light on him testing the power of my light and this guy still lit up like a christmas tree even 400m up the road as he disappeared into the distance. I wouldn't ride at night without it. During the day I wear bright yellow. I have 2 sets of panniers red or yellow with Scotchlite silver patches on all surfaces.

yip I do this all the time to fellow bikers and such like in high viz & it's quite entertaining (*) seeing the inside of vans and busses flashing away where theres a HiViz tabard on the seat or a passenger.

(*) I have a sad life