Coach, or not?...
Comments
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Napd, my next week is smthing like this:NapoleonD wrote:rvokes wrote:NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Errrr.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
hehehehe.. +1, it's a pain, but you have to view it as reaping the rewards later in the year, the spanish national cup (copa de españa) is a lot more important to do well in than a chippers event. Napd, if your spanish is up to much you can have a look at my coaches training regime... some days im sure he's the marquis de sade!
Heh heh, I'm sure I can translate!
Although having read M d S I am quite worried!
mon 1-2hrs easy
tues 3.5hrs 120-155 hilly-ish climbing pulse 168-172(im 30 km from a ski stn, so guess where im training :-S )
wed 4hrs 1hr 125-145. 1hr climbing long hill- 1hr 1min spinning 39*21/3 2mins 53*14, 1hr piano(easy)
thurs 3hrs rolling terrain after 1.5hr-2hrs 30min 53*14 60rpm
fri 3hrs 1hr easy, 5mins 170-172, 2mins rec, 4mins 168-172, 2mins rec. *5, recovery home.
sat, im staying in bed and pretending to be the cat so i dont race :-D0 -
rvokes wrote:
Napd, my next week is smthing like this:NapoleonD wrote:rvokes wrote:NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Errrr.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
hehehehe.. +1, it's a pain, but you have to view it as reaping the rewards later in the year, the spanish national cup (copa de españa) is a lot more important to do well in than a chippers event. Napd, if your spanish is up to much you can have a look at my coaches training regime... some days im sure he's the marquis de sade!
Heh heh, I'm sure I can translate!
Although having read M d S I am quite worried!
mon 1-2hrs easy
tues 3.5hrs 120-155 hilly-ish climbing pulse 168-172(im 30 km from a ski stn, so guess where im training :-S )
wed 4hrs 1hr 125-145. 1hr climbing long hill- 1hr 1min spinning 39*21/3 2mins 53*14, 1hr piano(easy)
thurs 3hrs rolling terrain after 1.5hr-2hrs 30min 53*14 60rpm
fri 3hrs 1hr easy, 5mins 170-172, 2mins rec, 4mins 168-172, 2mins rec. *5, recovery home.
sat, im staying in bed and pretending to be the cat so i dont race :-D
So, not exactly Carmichael's Time Crunched Training Plan then?
:shock:
Looks tough!0 -
NapoleonD wrote:rvokes wrote:
Napd, my next week is smthing like this:NapoleonD wrote:rvokes wrote:NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Errrr.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
hehehehe.. +1, it's a pain, but you have to view it as reaping the rewards later in the year, the spanish national cup (copa de españa) is a lot more important to do well in than a chippers event. Napd, if your spanish is up to much you can have a look at my coaches training regime... some days im sure he's the marquis de sade!
Heh heh, I'm sure I can translate!
Although having read M d S I am quite worried!
mon 1-2hrs easy
tues 3.5hrs 120-155 hilly-ish climbing pulse 168-172(im 30 km from a ski stn, so guess where im training :-S )
wed 4hrs 1hr 125-145. 1hr climbing long hill- 1hr 1min spinning 39*21/3 2mins 53*14, 1hr piano(easy)
thurs 3hrs rolling terrain after 1.5hr-2hrs 30min 53*14 60rpm
fri 3hrs 1hr easy, 5mins 170-172, 2mins rec, 4mins 168-172, 2mins rec. *5, recovery home.
sat, im staying in bed and pretending to be the cat so i dont race :-D
So, not exactly Carmichael's Time Crunched Training Plan then?
:shock:
Looks tough!
Its more like the 'Zapatero (spanish pm) buggered up the economy, so you're jobless' time training plan ;-)
since i got a good deal to go back to elite, it helps pay the bills, and i have more timeto finally do the time on the bike during the day and not at night...0 -
Sorry to hear about the job mate, good luck with it all.
You must keep us updated with your training and results!0 -
thanks, will do.... at least the easy days i get to go riding with the mrs :-)0
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rvokes, I guess you're living near Sierra Nevada, then! :shock:
My motorbike (SP2) used to struggle around there...
Respect, dude...
'ta luego...Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!0 -
NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Errrr.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
I know, but it still seems silly to loose a race just because you'd not want to go over 173, seems abit pointless to even do the race then.0 -
NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
Why are you so sure? There's a lot of coaches who have no idea, and a lot of other coaches who have some idea, and some really excellent coaches, we don't have anywhere near enough information to decide if the coach knows what he's doing. I'd love to hear the motivation behind an HR cap, since the anaerobic threshold is gibberish (since particularly in cycle racing you'll be using anaerobic efforts all the time, which will hardly register on your heart as you react to attacks.
Also spending lots of time at 168-172, but no time at 173 is somewhat odd since the HR thresholds can move a few beats through various factors suggesting that the 170 is quite likely to be the same as 173 on another day.
Still that's not to say it's bad coaching, using the rule as a way to limit excessive but not prevent the top level work is possibly a good way of explaining it.
Mind you, I wouldn't want to ride with someone who's looking at that current heart rate in the middle of a race - I'd rather they watched what's going on around them.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
jibberjim wrote:NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
Why are you so sure? There's a lot of coaches who have no idea, and a lot of other coaches who have some idea, and some really excellent coaches, we don't have anywhere near enough information to decide if the coach knows what he's doing. I'd love to hear the motivation behind an HR cap, since the anaerobic threshold is gibberish (since particularly in cycle racing you'll be using anaerobic efforts all the time, which will hardly register on your heart as you react to attacks.
Also spending lots of time at 168-172, but no time at 173 is somewhat odd since the HR thresholds can move a few beats through various factors suggesting that the 170 is quite likely to be the same as 173 on another day.
Still that's not to say it's bad coaching, using the rule as a way to limit excessive but not prevent the top level work is possibly a good way of explaining it.
Mind you, I wouldn't want to ride with someone who's looking at that current heart rate in the middle of a race - I'd rather they watched what's going on around them.
I stand by my comment...
As stated, the coach has coached some big winners including a Vuelta champion. That'll do for me...0 -
172 works out at i dont know how much lactate, but this week the limit is 172bpm... for racing he's set it at around that BUT, since at varies on the actual amount of lactate, tiredness, etc... mine is usually between 168-175 and then you have to factor in what the power readings are (yesterdays race 172, was around 360-370 watts)
its quite easy to pay attn to the pulsemeter, in a race, it bleeps! ;-)0 -
After reading this thread, I won't ever be spending money on a coach.0
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NapoleonD wrote:jibberjim wrote:NapoleonD wrote:freehub wrote:You must be joking? If you'd have a chance of winning you'd give up that chance cause your HR is 173? I'd have my HR go sky high if I was in that situation, doing that would not cause problems with training.
Don't wish to pi55 on your chips Will but I'm sure both he and his coach know what they are doing.
Why are you so sure? There's a lot of coaches who have no idea, and a lot of other coaches who have some idea, and some really excellent coaches, we don't have anywhere near enough information to decide if the coach knows what he's doing. I'd love to hear the motivation behind an HR cap, since the anaerobic threshold is gibberish (since particularly in cycle racing you'll be using anaerobic efforts all the time, which will hardly register on your heart as you react to attacks.
Also spending lots of time at 168-172, but no time at 173 is somewhat odd since the HR thresholds can move a few beats through various factors suggesting that the 170 is quite likely to be the same as 173 on another day.
Still that's not to say it's bad coaching, using the rule as a way to limit excessive but not prevent the top level work is possibly a good way of explaining it.
Mind you, I wouldn't want to ride with someone who's looking at that current heart rate in the middle of a race - I'd rather they watched what's going on around them.
I stand by my comment...
As stated, the coach has coached some big winners including a Vuelta champion. That'll do for me...
If I was him I'd ask the coach if it's ok to go over 172 in the sprint if it means the difference between winning and loosing? I'd be surprised if he said no don't do it.
My coach, told me anyway that I should not be relying on all this equipment all the time, infact he went into the thing about racing, he told me a story, can't remember it in detail, but it went something like, in a race, someone was going by his HR monitor, and he would not go any faster because it would go over the specified HR, now this cause him to loose the race, and since people are getting trained to race, it seems abit odd to loose races because you're going by HR.0 -
Will, please, FFS, it's LOSE, not LOOSE!!!
It appears to me that rvokes has a clearly defined goal that he wants to peak for, i.e. an important race. Now, you may want to try and win every race but at rvokes level that is, as far as I am aware, impossible...
Why jeapardise a big big race by going for it in smaller races?0 -
NapoleonD wrote:Will, please, FFS, it's LOSE, not LOOSE!!!
It appears to me that rvokes has a clearly defined goal that he wants to peak for, i.e. an important race. Now, you may want to try and win every race but at rvokes level that is, as far as I am aware, impossible...
Why jeapardise a big big race by going for it in smaller races?
NapD, no need to loose your temper over a spelling mistake :?
No, but the point is, he said that he'd not go over a certain HR if he was in a WINNING position, not if you're not going to go over a certain HR, then I'd have thought it would be unlikely to even get in a winning position, but if you got in a position to win, you'd not throw it away....
To be honest, I don't see the point in doing races that you have no intention what so ever in winning.0 -
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I would suggest that it's a waste of time/money/effort to be in a race if you're not going to compete. If you want to sit at <172 HR you can fart around on the club run or whatever, surely the point of using a race for training is to ride at race speed...
A mate told me how he was in a crit and was on the wheel of a strong elite rider who with half a lap to go, just sat up in the pack! My mate got stuck behind him and couldn't contest the sprint
(not really the point i'm making though). 0 -
Infamous wrote:I would suggest that it's a waste of time/money/effort to be in a race if you're not going to compete. If you want to sit at <172 HR you can fart around on the club run or whatever, surely the point of using a race for training is to ride at race speed...
A mate told me how he was in a crit and was on the wheel of a strong elite rider who with half a lap to go, just sat up in the pack! My mate got stuck behind him and couldn't contest the sprint (not really the point i'm making though).
How about asking rvokes? He races at elite level and it's his coach...
If it's not an important race then would you risk getting injured contesting a sprint?0 -
Infamous wrote:
Well why race at all, if you're not going to ride at full effort at some point?NapoleonD wrote:How about asking rvokes? He races at elite level and it's his coach...
If it's not an important race then would you risk getting injured contesting a sprint?
To keep your bike handling and positioning skills topped up?
Ask the Elite racer, not me!0 -
You defended him. I was agreeing with freehub (imagine that).0
