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finger pointing in qatar (spoiler)

stefreesstefrees Posts: 137
edited February 2010 in Pro race
i put spoiler in here just in case dont want to be shot down.

hammond is blaming sky for ruining everyone elses race in qatar for not chasing the break on stage 1. wiggo said for first 25 k sky were disoreintated with loss of arvesen and dont forget it was skys first race together with those riders and de jongh's first as directeur (i know sunderland was also there).

is it fair of hammond to say this?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/news/qatar-gold-a-gift-from-the-sky-or-the-wind_104857
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Posts

  • The ProdigyThe Prodigy Posts: 832
    What a load of old tripe. Belt up Hammond.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Certainly it was a mistake to let the two build up such a big lead and the largest responsibility falls on the team in yellow, they lost the yellow jersey. But other teams were free to chase, including Cervélo.
  • The ProdigyThe Prodigy Posts: 832
    Kleber - spot on.
  • stefreesstefrees Posts: 137
    Kléber wrote:
    Certainly it was a mistake to let the two build up such a big lead and the largest responsibility falls on the team in yellow, they lost the yellow jersey. But other teams were free to chase, including Cervélo.

    i agree.

    sky can learn from their mistakes-there will be a few. but i dont think they can be blamed by other teams.
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    I dunno about letting the yellow jersey go thats the issue, plenty of teams do that, but normally the team in yellow ride to hold the gap at a sensible level. I guess racing is racing and anything goes, but there are also times later on in the season when Sky might need outside help and I guess at this rate other teams will not be rushing to provide it.

    Hmm, anyway should keep things interesting for the season :lol:
  • LangerDanLangerDan Posts: 6,132
    Cervelo screwed up in the TTT, Mol and Steurs took a big gamble on stage 2 and it paid off.
    Thats racing - suck it up, princess.

    (as the elder statesman of British pros, I though Roger was beyond that sort of sniping)
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • hammeritehammerite Posts: 3,408
    I know they held yellow on the first stage, but what was the time gap, 8s. Surely other teams in with a shout should do an equal amount of work.

    Sky ballsed it up, were all over the place, if I remember rightly there was a split in the field and Sky didn't have one rider in it, I'm sure that wasn't intentional! That said like people add, it was the first race with these riders together, and I'm guessing the likes of Wiggins and Boassen Hagen have higher priorities in the next couple of months. Probably the biggest priority for them was not to end up laid up for a few weeks with an injury crashing going for a needless sprint.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Hammond is just jealous of Sky.

    :wink:

    I love the jealousy angle - You just can't argue with it.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Slow1972Slow1972 Posts: 362
    Seems to me that everyone, Cervelo included, thought they'd make up the deficit due to the expected winds. The winds didn't really happen after St 2 and they weren't able to force breaks in the bunch as they's hoped to do. Also some of the riders, Cervelo included, were probably saving their legs in St 2, thinking there would be a few more days of hard riding in the wind to contend with. They can't really blame Sky for that either.

    That said, I know Sky won a short TTT, but Quatar has shown them they have work to do (tactically and in co-operating with other teams) in proper road stages. But they are a new team, its really early and I think you have to expect a few ups and downs along the way though. They have some experienced guys in the background and targetting and scoring wins where they are most likely to succeed (such as the short TTTs) does not seem a bad idea. It creates some confidence within the team and an instant winning profile with ASO/UCI etc.
  • greeny12greeny12 Posts: 759
    You could also argue that by creating the echelon split as they did, Cervelo also contributed to the breakaway's success because there were simply too few riders in what was left of the front selection to work togehter to close the break, especially as they'd dropped all of the yellow jersey's team!!

    A full-size, full-speed peleton bearing down on them might well have caught the breakaway pair before the line.
    My cycle racing blog: http://cyclingapprentice.wordpress.com/

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  • squiredsquired Posts: 1,153
    I hate all the "it is the responsibility of.." rubbish. If you want to win the race then you have the power to act accordingly. If you don't then you can't complain. It is a common problem in cycling though. I seem to remember a lot of finger pointing about responsibilities for chasing in the TDF that was eventually awarded to Pereiro. Had other teams taken the initiative they might have ended up getting the overall instead.
  • teagarteagar Posts: 2,100
    Why should Cervelo chase when they were put a minute down on everyone else?

    Fair enough, if Boonen wants to win it - Quick-Step should have chased, but he was happy to go for stage wins and have a crack at the GC if the winds picked up.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • The ProdigyThe Prodigy Posts: 832
    Cervelo may have been placed a minute down but I don't see why that means they shouldn't chase a break if it is in there interests to do so. Is that not cutting off your nose spite your face?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Don't read too much into this either, it's possible Hammond said a lot of other things but we are just picking up on the one controversial bit. Roger is a very unassuming and easy going guy, he's the exact opposite of a sheet-stirrer.
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Kléber wrote:
    Don't read too much into this either, it's possible Hammond said a lot of other things but we are just picking up on the one controversial bit. Roger is a very unassuming and easy going guy, he's the exact opposite of a sheet-stirrer.

    He doesn't even have a Twitter account for one thing.
  • teagarteagar Posts: 2,100
    The Prodigy wrote:
    Cervelo may have been placed a minute down but I don't see why that means they shouldn't chase a break if it is in there interests to do so. Is that not cutting off your nose spite your face?

    i thought it was more: why chase down someone for the GC only to tow people who are a minute ahead of us as well?
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    To be fair, when you have the lead, it's your responsibility to chase. That is just how it works!! Sky didn't and they put other's race plans to ruin...Of course the other teams were free to try and control the race. But why would you pull the yellow jersey to the finish, EBH might not be a top sprinter, but he clearly has a strong finish.

    Furthermore, if as a team, Sky want to contend GTs, they are going to need to be able to ride at the front for miles upon miles, days and days. They need the practice, and riding on the front at the tour of Qatar, would have been great practice.

    Finally, Sky are by no means guaranteed a place at le Tour, impressing ASO by defending the jersey would have been money in the bank!!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,649
    Second stage surely it was up to any team who fancied winning the stage to chase? Why would Sky chase only to let another team take the stage?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Because they keep the yellow jersey? :wink:

    They probably would have done this but got distracted by the retirement of Arvesen.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,649
    Maybe they weren't overly worried about winning the GC? In truth all the big teams messed up on what was a very tough, windy stage and probably none expected 2 breakaways to stay out in those conditions.
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Jez mon wrote:
    To be fair, when you have the lead, it's your responsibility to chase. That is just how it works!!

    Obviously not in this case !

    It's a race - there isn't a script.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • malcom xmalcom x Posts: 12
    rodger hammond,... same fat kid, that used to ride at eastway all those years ago, never gonna win big races, still the nearly man, allways will be. just sour grapes, missed the sky boat.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    So the last time you met Hammond was when Eastway was open? :roll:
  • malcom xmalcom x Posts: 12
    yep, mind you he was only 17, thirds and juniors,, he sat on, then won the sprint, guess this the break stayed away, same tactic though, nothing changes.
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    Maybe he won't win a big race but podiums at P-R and G-W, 2 national road titles, multiple national cyclocross and junior world cyclocross, suggest he is more than just some fat kid at Eastways, as you put it.

    In fact his palmares are not too dissimilar from Flecha's and much better than most of the Sky set up.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,304
    Crickey, even other Brits can't avoid the wrath of the Sky fanboy.
    It's only Qatar, ffs.
    Sky had yellow, but they didn't do the train pulling expected.
    I don't think that would happen in a bigger stager.
    Hammond isn't wrong, but who cares?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,649
    Yep, that same fat bloke who has a 3rd place in Paris - Roubaix and 2nd in Ghent - Wevelgem not to mention numerous GB champions jerseys in both road and cyclo cross. As you were obviously far slimmer than he was in the Eastway days I'm assuming you have more impressive palmares?
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 11,216
    Jez mon wrote:

    Finally, Sky are by no means guaranteed a place at le Tour, impressing ASO by defending the jersey would have been money in the bank!!

    yeah i was thinking this

    OTOH

    devils advocate,,,,

    on reflection I think sky would have found it hard to defend if they had controlled the race as they would have passed the time bonuses to rival sprinters seeing as EBH looked to be out of the top 3 each day

    how far were quickstep behind after the TTT? 20 secs...2 wins for boonen puts him equal on GC I think

    Haussler would have been hard to control (sans the 1 min penalty i suppose)


    as for Hammond...your right

    sky ruined the race for themselves no one else...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 11,216
    malcom x wrote:
    yep, mind you he was only 17, thirds and juniors,, he sat on, then won the sprint, guess this the break stayed away, same tactic though, nothing changes.

    if it works....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 11,216
    Pross wrote:
    Maybe they weren't overly worried about winning the GC? In truth all the big teams messed up on what was a very tough, windy stage and probably none expected 2 breakaways to stay out in those conditions.

    nahhh they had EBH in the jersey till the end in their minds....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
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