WKO+ manual input?

hopper1

Guys,
I'm trying to use WKO+ to my best advantage as a training tool, etc.
Because of my work, I only log training rides, through PT when I'm at home, consequently WKO is based on 50% of training input as it doesn't realise I'm doing other training on a turbo/gym bike, etc...
If I record all my ride data (basics) when I'm at work, can I manually feed it into WKO+, to help get a better overview of how my training is going?
I also run 4 days a week, when home, so should that be manually input, too? Will the running help the overall view, or confuse it/me?
If not WKO+, are one of the other software options better for this?

Thanks,

Paul

doyler78

hopper1 wrote:

Guys,
I'm trying to use WKO+ to my best advantage as a training tool, etc.
Because of my work, I only log training rides, through PT when I'm at home, consequently WKO is based on 50% of training input as it doesn't realise I'm doing other training on a turbo/gym bike, etc...
If I record all my ride data (basics) when I'm at work, can I manually feed it into WKO+, to help get a better overview of how my training is going?
I also run 4 days a week, when home, so should that be manually input, too? Will the running help the overall view, or confuse it/me?
If not WKO+, are one of the other software options better for this?

Thanks,

Paul

You may find this useful. rTSS & WKO+

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/01/w ... lable.html

Well if you use, or are wanting to use the performance manager then it will be much more useful for you if you include all your training. I myself estimate TSS. The only sessions I do in the gym are threshold efforts and I always do them at threshold that way I can make a pretty good estimate of TSS ie what a comparable session on the turbo at home would yield.

Why not use your powertap on your home turbo sessions? That would at least take some of the uncertainty out of your guesstimates.

There are of course other factors that affect training stress and your ability to recover such as stress, etc however there is no model for that yet - soon we'll be chomping on foam swabs and analyzing those for cortisol levels in our salvia on our portable machines to factor that in and Training Peaks will have a metric for it and everyone else will use pretty much the same type of formula and build it into their own system

hopper1

doyler78 wrote:

You may find this useful. rTSS & WKO+

http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/2008/01/w ... lable.html

Well if you use, or are wanting to use the performance manager then it will be much more useful for you if you include all your training. I myself estimate TSS. The only sessions I do in the gym are threshold efforts and I always do them at threshold that way I can make a pretty good estimate of TSS ie what a comparable session on the turbo at home would yield.

Why not use your powertap on your home turbo sessions? That would at least take some of the uncertainty out of your guesstimates.

There are of course other factors that affect training stress and your ability to recover such as stress, etc however there is no model for that yet - soon we'll be chomping on foam swabs and analyzing those for cortisol levels in our salvia on our portable machines to factor that in and Training Peaks will have a metric for it and everyone else will use pretty much the same type of formula and build it into their own system

I do use my PT if I'm on my home turbo.
Some places I go to for work have turbos in the gym (usually with a one size fit's all MTB on slicks!), others have gym bikes. It's these sessions I can't record, well only with pen and paper!

chrisw12

hopper1 wrote:

Guys,

If I record all my ride data (basics) when I'm at work, can I manually feed it into WKO+, to help get a better overview of how my training is going?


Thanks,

Paul

Yes you can.

What I would do if I were you, would be to do a session at home using your powertap and record the tss value. Then when you're away from home do exactly the same session and give it the same score.

Build up a bank of workouts at home that you can then repeat when your away,

Obviously you wont be able to track improvement when away like this but it will keep your pmc chart relatively up to date.

hopper1

chrisw12 wrote:

Yes you can.

What I would do if I were you, would be to do a session at home using your powertap and record the tss value. Then when you're away from home do exactly the same session and give it the same score.

Build up a bank of workouts at home that you can then repeat when your away,

Obviously you wont be able to track improvement when away like this but it will keep your pmc chart relatively up to date.

I had thought about doing something along those lines...
If I do a session at home, then replicate that session offshore, at work, I would be ok with copying the initial file and saving as a different date, to coincide with the session done.
This would then keep my WKO+ records up to date... Yes/ No?
It's not perfect, but it wouldn't be cheating either, would it?

chrisw12

You don't even need to save and copy the original file, you can just enter the dyration and if values manually or enter the tss manualy.

Saying that, yes, you're idea is probably easier. Can you just change the date like you suggest though? Wko can sometime be a bit awkward on editing things and/or I'm a bit useless at messing around with this sort of thing.

I don't think it's cheating, as long as you keep the same intensity on your work turbo sessions, a hr monitor is probably a good idea here as well.

DaveyL

Friel has a blog about estimating TSS from HR or RPE:

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2 ... g-tss.html

Maybe not accurate but at least gives you a ballpark figure.

jibberjim

hopper1 wrote:

I also run 4 days a week, when home, so should that be manually input, too? Will the running help the overall view, or confuse it/me?

It depends what you're measuring TSS for. WKO is unfortunately extremely poor for running unless you do it on the treadmill or identical surface all the time as soon as you introduce cross country where you're schlepping through mud for not much speed the pace based calcs go off. I would recommend a TRIMP based HR score for tracking running fitness, although looking at paces is useful too.

The big thing about a combined chart is that it doesn't really tell you much, since it talks nothing about specificity (even less than single sport, but at least as long as your training plan is specific it doesn't matter much) Because your running won't help your cycling hardly at all, but your cycling will help your running. So how you integrate the two becomes complicated for the analysis.

Even using purely the ATL to decide when you need a break isn't going to work that will since it could be overload in a completely different sport that has caused the ATL spike and you'd be fine for another sport.

I'd advocate tracking run and cycling entirely seperately, with seperate sustainable ramp rates, and seperate thought. Looking at overall CTL for kicks and ATL still to indicate if you are hitting it too hard - although that should likely be visible from the seperate sports. That's certainly worked for some triathletes I know well.

chrisw12

DaveyL wrote:

Friel has a blog about estimating TSS from HR or RPE:

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009/09/estimating-tss.html

Maybe not accurate but at least gives you a ballpark figure.

another sport scientist that doesn't understand basic algebra and the concept of simplifying formulas. (look at his formula for tss)