Running on empty
Team Banana Spokesman
Posts: 538
Any truth in this?? http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/running-on-empty
Especially this bit?
Especially this bit?
How low-level glycogen training affects performance
Generally, athletes of all levels are told to have a carbohydrate-rich meal two to three hours before any training occurs, ensuring their glycogen levels are fully topped up.
But these studies suggest that purposefully manipulating your glycogen level so that it's around one third depleted results in improved signalling, hence greater muscular mitochondrial mass and better endurance performance.
"The exact mechanism is still being investigated, but this could work in a number of ways," says Baar.
"For example, training on low glycogen puts the body under extra stress, meaning it produces more adrenaline. Therefore the body adapts to dampen the body's response to adrenaline, which in turn helps to increase the lactate threshold".
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Comments
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I Like the bit:
"training on low glycogen puts the body under extra stress"
I'm under enough stress as it is when training, don't think I need less food to add to the fun.
Where did I put that Mars bar?Mike B
Cannondale CAAD9
Kinesis Pro 5 cross bike
Lots of bits0 -
Attempting to train without fuelling yourself properly sounds like a recipe for disaster to me."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Attempting to train without fuelling yourself properly sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
+1
WTF is that all about?0 -
NapoleonD wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:Attempting to train without fuelling yourself properly sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
+1
WTF is that all about?
I have no idea, I'd just rather not bonk. Just forwarded this article to one of the Physiology lecturers/coaches at my uni, and this is his reply:
"interesting, heard similar things before. want some scientfic evidence before i believe that. worst case scenario, you'll be completely depleted, knackered and can't train the next day""A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
I don't buy all this. Just eat properly FFS!
Correct fuelling with carbs allows you to cycle harder for longer and recover better, giving you the same benefits and more, as you can potentially cycle at a higher level day-in-day-out.0 -
I've heard of this before. Apparently it's bloody hard mentally (no sh!t sherlock) but effective.
I'll stick to the old-fashioned eating method though.0 -
Remember the "bonk rides" cycling weekly couldn't go a week without mentioning a few years back?
Idea was you had one cup of black coffee for breakfast then set off and did an hour and a half before you allowed any sugar or carbs to pass your lips to increase the rate at which you burned fat... even at that kind of Will/Bhima stage of my cycling life I took one look at that and went "Naaaaaaaaaahhhhh!"
How irresponsible is pedalling that to people?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Interesting one I used (Yes I know a while ago...) to ride 65miles of a morn around ye olde north coast racking up a tad under 3000mtrs climbing with some nice? Cornish hills managed this at about 19mph av speed. Light cereal brekkie straight out a couple of fig rolls possibly a banana normally water but maybe one smaller bottle of enegy drink.
Your body does get accustomed to it but the old advice little and often is way better...after all I got really sick but can`t really blame it just on this......
Impressive food per miles ratio....wish my car was the same...0 -
NapoleonD wrote:ShockedSoShocked wrote:Attempting to train without fuelling yourself properly sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
+1
WTF is that all about?
No it works and is not a necesarily new concept, been round for years but guess these days they analyse results more scientificaly.
It does not mean you starve yourself and bonk, it just means you dont stuff yourself before you train
It is also not wise to do this for longer rides.
I do these type of rides with no breakfast and just take one bottle ( gel and banana just in case!!) and do 30 to 40 miles hardish rise.
I have seen guys on sportive pigging out on 2 bowls of pasta night before a sportive, pockets full of gels, aiming to get a bronze
Unless your riding 120 miles and trying to complete at av speed of 23mph, not really required to carbo load, just a balanced diet for the days before ride.
Wonder why some of them feel sick during the rides ?
My problem is stopping eating after the rides 0 -
ShockedSoShocked wrote:Attempting to train without fuelling yourself properly sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.
Not necessarily. I'm doing a couple of sessions a week at the moment before breakfast - not because that gives any special benefit, but I simply don't have time to eat first and then allow time for digestion.
It's nothing more intense than tempo work though. I couldn't do threshold or vo2 work without being fueled up.--
"Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."0 -
As welshie says this isn't new and neither is Baar's research.
See here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/running-on-empty for example
See also this .pdf http://www.nutrifit.co.uk/Conference_Mu ... 20Baar.pdf
Baar is not suggesting you actually train until you hit the wall. We have enough glycogen to fuel about 2 hr exercise (give or take, depending on intensity). Baar suggests exercising for 60-90 min without fuel, in order to deplete the glyocgen levels and get the benefits described in the link.
This "train low, race high" glycogen strategy has been discussed for a while in cycling and triathlon circles - we just need to be clear what he is and is not advocating.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:As welshie says this isn't new and neither is Baar's research.
See here: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/running-on-empty for example
Baar is not suggesting you actually train until you hit the wall. We have enough glycogen to fuel about 2 hr exercise (give or take, depending on intensity). Baar suggests exercising for 60-90 min without fuel, in order to deplete the glyocgen levels and get the benefits described in the link.
This "train low, race high" glycogen strategy has been discussed for a while in cycling and triathlon circles - we just need to be clear what he is and is not advocating.
I only have food on rides over 2hrs anyway, unless I'm planning a total hammerfest!
(I always take emergency rations though...)0 -
Well, the other part of it is to train in a fasted state (i.e. first thing in the morning) or have only a low-carb meal before training. Still, I'm sure a lot of folk do this kind of training at some point, whether intended or not.Le Blaireau (1)0
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Marathon runners have been doing this for a while. Doing a long run about once a month slightly glycogen depleted. The received wisdom was that this helps simulate the later stages of a marathon and encourages the body to adapt, but maybe there's more to it than that.
Interesting stuff, but definitely the sort of thing you should be a cautious with.0
