Beppu Hishacked!

blazing_saddles

More bad smells coming out of the Shack.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/skil-sh ... with-beppu

Where are the UCI when you need them? The guy signed a new contract.
Everyone knew, but Bruyneel feined ignorance. Didn't stop him going on with the scheming, though.
Now, Beppu ends up at the Shack, because they wanted his ethnicity?
Another example of the corruption of inertia, that passes between HQ and certain favoured indivduals.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

More bad smells coming out of the Shack.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/skil-sh ... with-beppu

Where are the UCI when you need them? The guy signed a new contract.
Everyone knew, but Bruyneel feined ignorance. Didn't stop him going on with the scheming, though.
Now, Beppu ends up at the Shack, because they wanted his ethnicity?
Another example of the corruption of inertia, that passes between HQ and certain favoured indivduals.

According to that article he had a year left on a three year contract . Is there much difference here from Wiggins and Swift moving to Sky or Heras moving to Liberty a few years back ? Welcome to the world of professional sport this is what happens in all walks of pro sport why should cycling be any different.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

More bad smells coming out of the Shack.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/skil-sh ... with-beppu

Where are the UCI when you need them? The guy signed a new contract.
Everyone knew, but Bruyneel feined ignorance. Didn't stop him going on with the scheming, though.
Now, Beppu ends up at the Shack, because they wanted his ethnicity?
Another example of the corruption of inertia, that passes between HQ and certain favoured indivduals.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/radiosh ... il-shimano


RadioShack had engaged Beppu on the basis of information provided by the rider.

Skil-Shimano informed the International Cycling Union (UCI) of the situation on Tuesday. However, the sport's governing body is unlikely to be drawn further into the matter after RadioShack agreed to let Skil-Shimano resolve the conflict with Beppu themselves.

"Bruyneel agreed that we have a valid contract with Beppu and said he would step back and allow us to sort it out," said Ceulen. "He [Bruyneel] does not want to be involved in the discussions as it is a matter between our team and our rider."

andyp

Sounds to me that there are direct correlations between the Swift affair with Katusha and this one.

Personally I've no problem with riders changing teams whilst still under contract, but would prefer to see some kind of standardised transfer system in place.

blazing_saddles

I was going to type; "cue Moray". :P
...and yet....here he is, at the Shack. Funny that.
Disappear and don't attend any training camps or the team presentations. Basically refusing to ride. Not the thing to do, if you don't already know someone is waiting to catch you.

I agree Andy, much like Swift. Another very poor show.
Only difference being Beppu is very late in the day and after this proclamation:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid ... egulations

Another case of the tail wagging the dog and UCI inertia.

Tom Butcher

It's poor form - perhaps no different to Wiggins or Swift but Sky were slated for that so the Shack deserves similar condemnation. I

Moray - it would be thought equally out of order were it to happen in football or other sports - eg - of course everyone knows teams tap up players but can you imagine a footballer refusing to attend pre season because he wanted a move having been tapped up and not being criticised for it ?

DaveyL

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Where are the UCI when you need them?

Busting filthy Italian dopers?

dennisn

It's Pro sports. I don't see why anyone is surprised. H*ll, amateur and collegiate sports are
dicey enough, but the Pros..... :roll: :roll:

iainf72

dennisn wrote:

It's Pro sports. I don't see why anyone is surprised. H*ll, amateur and collegiate sports are
dicey enough, but the Pros..... :roll: :roll:

It is. But then, can you name a previous season where these has been this level of contract breaking?

dennisn

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

It's Pro sports. I don't see why anyone is surprised. H*ll, amateur and collegiate sports are
dicey enough, but the Pros..... :roll: :roll:

It is. But then, can you name a previous season where these has been this level of contract breaking?

Couldn't say. Haven't ever really followed things that closely until I started hanging on this forum. Although you do tend to hear about it from many other sports. This and that person holding out for more money or want to be traded. There have even been a few cases of American football players sitting out a season to get out of a contract. Doesn't seem like too many sports teams have very many actual TEAM players. Most play for a team for a year or two and then move on. Money being the major factor.

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

It's Pro sports. I don't see why anyone is surprised. H*ll, amateur and collegiate sports are
dicey enough, but the Pros..... :roll: :roll:

It is. But then, can you name a previous season where these has been this level of contract breaking?

This is the crux. We have had two "wealthy" teams poaching. Contracts appear worthless, at least, as far as teams are concerned.
While this might appear lucrative, from individual riders standpoint, it makes for instability and could have far reaching effects upon smaller teams in the future, were this practice to continue. I'm thinking here, with possible race invites, short rosters,etc.
The UCI need to sort it, fast.

Stone Glider

Many interviews of professional cyclists, especially of a certain age, tend to dwell on their "legacy" and palmares. I have found this acknowledgement of their place in the history of the sport rather engaging. Such people may find an incident in their career as described above a significant embarassment as the years unfold.

Comparisons with other professional sports may be misleading as only cycling demands the levels of commitment/madness for so many years. Many professional cyclists seem thoughtful/intelligent people capable of nuanced thinking. Leaving "stains" on their record would be unattractive. However, as others have said, money talks.

iainf72

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The UCI need to sort it, fast.

I expect they will. JV's proposals about it in the new Procycling seem sensible to me.

frenchfighter

Tom Butcher I like the sentiment in your signature.

Kléber

It's fine to let riders move teams, after all slavery was abolished 200 years ago. You can't force someone to work for you.

But there needs to be a framework for transactions, otherwise you have teams "tapping up" riders and then the rider in question starts shafting his employer, avoiding training camps or maybe ducking races and generally creating a mess until their existing employer gives up and lets them move. This can only destabilise the small teams, it leaves the big teams with even more power.

I'd suggest something like that team that wants to buy a rider should buy out the rider's existing contract in full and then pay a second premium on top and then in addition, pay a chunk of the riders new wage to his old team, subject to the old team being in place. In other words, if a team invests in making a rider from average to exceptional then they can share some of the benefits if the rider flees to another team.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

I was going to type; "cue Moray". :P
...and yet....here he is, at the Shack. Funny that.

funny as in strange or funny as in haha ? I post on all sorts of threads so why shouldnt i post in this one .

moray_gub

Tom Butcher wrote:

It's poor form - perhaps no different to Wiggins or Swift but Sky were slated for that so the Shack deserves similar condemnation. I

Moray - it would be thought equally out of order were it to happen in football or other sports - eg - of course everyone knows teams tap up players but can you imagine a footballer refusing to attend pre season because he wanted a move having been tapped up and not being criticised for it ?

Ok so why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth towards the Shack i know you guys think JB is the devil incanate but come on !, if there is any fault here its looks like the rider himself. After all he told JB he was free to move and he wasnt.

blazing_saddles

What potential employer doesn't check on a potential employee's employment record?
The "I had no idea he was under contract" defence just doesn't wash.
Especially, as we all knew Beppu had a Skil contract.

Another brown envelope has been passed. This time, a buyout, in the direction of Skil.
It never ceases to amaze me, how the business world mimics the underworld.

Kléber

I'm not sure Bruyneel can claim ignorance here, after all it is not as if the Belgian said "sorry son, I didn't know you're under contract, you'd better go back to them", he followed through with the transfer.

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

What potential employer doesn't check on a potential employee's employment record?
The "I had no idea he was under contract" defence just doesn't wash.
Especially, as we all knew Beppu had a Skil contract.

The rider himself told him he was free ,no question where the blame (if any)lies here and it aint old bum face. What gets me here is how naive you lot are when it comes to these things . Issues concerning contracts with riders and teams they have been going since about the inception of rider contracts...............pretty much like a lot of team professional sports. In an ideal world sure riders would see out all contracts without angling for a move and teams wouldnt try to sign contracted riders...............but we dont live in an ideal world now do we .

moray_gub

Kléber wrote:

I'm not sure Bruyneel can claim ignorance here, after all it is not as if the Belgian said "sorry son, I didn't know you're under contract, you'd better go back to them", he followed through with the transfer.

According to that link he followed through with the transfer after Beppu had his contract terminated.

Jeff Jones

It's because employment law ranks higher than UCI rules.

The gentleman's agreement that UCI currently has in place doesn't really work.

What the UCI could do, as JV suggests in Procycling, is to implement a more formal transfer system a la some other professional sports. But even that is window dressing, IMO. It might affect the amount of money changing hands but that's it.

If Team X wants to poach a willing Brad Wiggins from Team JV and has the cash to do so, then nothing is going to stop them (because of employment law). Team JV may end up with a bit more cash but they've still lost their big rider, so they haven't really won. Sure they could go and poach Alberto Contador from Team Vino, but they could do that already.

rockmount

Jeff Jones wrote:

Sure they could go and poach Alberto Contador from Team Vino, but they could do that already.

Just goes to show the little pistolero just ain't as valuable as some seem to think !

micron

I'm struggling with this - Beppu gets poached, UCI says no problem. Swift, same thing. So why exactly couldn't AC break his contract with Astana - after all there were several teams queuing up to pay the price?

Or is this one rule for teams the UCI likes who are rich and have names beginning with S and another for everyone else?

DaveyL

micron wrote:

after all there were several teams queuing up to pay the price?

There were?

dennisn

micron wrote:

I'm struggling with this - Beppu gets poached, UCI says no problem. Swift, same thing. So why exactly couldn't AC break his contract with Astana - after all there were several teams queuing up to pay the price?

Maybe you're assuming that AC wanted to break his contract. Despite all the talk on this forum about how he could have, should have, would have, "gotten out", he's still there.
Money talks very powerfully to people, even AC, and while people think, and claim to know, the inner workings of pro racing and pro cyclist, well, I have my doubts that they / we know the WHOLE story.

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

micron wrote:

after all there were several teams queuing up to pay the price?

There were?

I think the teams interested didn't have the cash. Caisse - well, considering what's happened this year it's unlikely they could've afforded him. Q.S - Reduced schedule due to lack of funds. Garmin - They talked before the Tour but I get the feeling there was not much talk post-Tour.

DaveyL

Quite

blazing_saddles

rockmount wrote:

Jeff Jones wrote:

Sure they could go and poach Alberto Contador from Team Vino, but they could do that already.

Just goes to show the little pistolero just ain't as valuable as some seem to think !

It actually shows the complete opposite.
Cost too much to buy him out.
As Iain points out, Caisse, nor Garmin didn't have the readies, even with their Wiggins windfall.

DaveyL

I suspect JV's wine cellar is particularly well-stocked right now...

iainf72

Blazing Saddles wrote:

It actually shows the complete opposite.
Cost too much to buy him out.
As Iain points out, Caisse, nor Garmin didn't have the readies, even with their Wiggins windfall.

He's got the biggest salary I think. He also has requirements to take 3 or 4 team mates with him, mechanic etc. But if you look at his sponsorship deal with Spesh he's very highly valued.