1st Time Dragon Rider

The Running Man

Morning all :

I've bitten the bullet and entered the Dragon Ride 190 kms route. I'm an old fella (54) currently doing appx 200-250 miles per week, made up of 4 x morning commute into work of 20 miles and a homeward journey of around 30 miles. I can usually manage to get out on the weekend to do a 50-60 miler. I've not yet done anything over 65 miles. I can average around 17 mph over my commutes.

I've looked at the elevation profile of the ride and it looks absolutely horrific and there aren't that many decent longer climbs in my area though I guess I could always travel to find some.

Anyway I like structure in my life so is there a basic plan anyone can suggest that I can follow to make my first one as relatively pain free as possible??

e999sam

I did it last year on a lot less miles a week than you are doing now I averaged about 135 miles a week and my max ride up to the dragon was no more than 70 miles. The climbs are not that bad they are long but not to steep I managed on 39x23.

The Running Man

Thanks e999sam.

And I've just starting reading the Marmotte thread below which answers a lot of my questions too : DOH!!

I've stuck a compact on my race bike just to be sure I can get up the hills and get round!!

I can see a few trips home to the Valleys coming ..........

mackdaddy

The thing that caught me out on my first dragon was that although I'd prepared for doing the hills, I wasn't ready for how quickly the next one came.
Draggin up the long first hill was okay, but flying down the other side so quick meant the next hill, while being shorter, came around rapidly. After a couple of these I was struggling a bit. I did alright in the end but I feel I know better now and will be a bit better prepared for this next time around. I'd be aiming to do an equivalent of the 2x20,s but as 5x20's with 5 minutes between in the last month to prepare me for that.
So in summary, it isn't the big hills necessarily but the frequency of them that caught me out.

softlad

The Running Man wrote:

Anyway I like structure in my life so is there a basic plan anyone can suggest that I can follow to make my first one as relatively pain free as possible??

with that kind of regular mileage, I would not be worrying at all. As said, people get round with a lot less miles under their belt than that.

Obviously, a few longer rides nearer the time would give you some good prep, but from a fitness point of view, I'd be suprised if you had any problems. Not sure about 'the running man' - maybe you should think about changing your name to 'the cycling man'..

sampras38

I don't mean to derail, but what sort of average speed would you need to get a 6hrs 30 or 7hr Dragon on the 190km route?

The Running Man

Cheers guys :

My regular nasty hills in Wiltshire are Clyffe Pypard and Hackpen on the weekend which are steep but they're probably only half a mile each in length. Plenty of long drags like Box Hill on the A4 most evenings or Bowden Hill at Lacock.

I guess I should start chucking them in at the end of 3 or 4 hour rides just to get the feel for climbing tired.

I'll be hoping to get round in anything starting with a 7.

@ sampras38 : it's 118 miles so a 6hrs 30 mins finish will require an average speed of just over 18mph : I shan't be doing anything remotely like that!!

sampras38

The Running Man wrote:

Cheers guys :

My regular nasty hills in Wiltshire are Clyffe Pypard and Hackpen on the weekend which are steep but they're probably only half a mile each in length. Plenty of long drags like Box Hill on the A4 most evenings or Bowden Hill at Lacock.

I guess I should start chucking them in at the end of 3 or 4 hour rides just to get the feel for climbing tired.

I'll be hoping to get round in anything starting with a 7.

@ sampras38 : it's 118 miles so a 6hrs 30 mins finish will require an average speed of just over 18mph : I shan't be doing anything remotely like that!!

I did it last year for the first time with little prep and got 7.25, so just trying to improve this year. i'd like to knock an hour off if I can.

The Running Man

Wow!! An hour faster over appx 120 miles is an increase of 2mph on your average.

You must have been putting the work in

Genuinely as long as I can get round in daylight hours I'll be thrilled just to have completed it. I've only been back on the bike since the summer after spending most of my time running so this is a real challenge.

I've a 100km Audax ride this Sunday so I'm planning to take it relatively quietly for the first half as I'd like to finish feeling strong.

I guess I should also enter a few 100's perhaps in the run-up just to get used to spending that amount of time on my backside!!

sampras38

The Running Man wrote:

Wow!! An hour faster over appx 120 miles is an increase of 2mph on your average.

You must have been putting the work in

Genuinely as long as I can get round in daylight hours I'll be thrilled just to have completed it. I've only been back on the bike since the summer after spending most of my time running so this is a real challenge.

I've a 100km Audax ride this Sunday so I'm planning to take it relatively quietly for the first half as I'd like to finish feeling strong.

I guess I should also enter a few 100's perhaps in the run-up just to get used to spending that amount of time on my backside!!

Certain things I did in wales due to lack of experience that I have since changed at more recent Sportives such as spending too much time at feed stops and stopping when i really didn't need to. Not doing enough group riding. I've done a lot better at sportives since then so thought I could knock a fair amount of time off next time. My climbing and descending has also improved a lot (did some stuff in france) so all this and more dedicated training should yield good results.

GeorgeShaw

On that mileage, you'll be fine. I did it first time last year, aged 55, on much less - 150-200 miles per week, but quite a few 100km rides and plenty of hills in them.

More important, I think, is to know the terrain. The three big hills may be big, but they're not steep. So each is more like a TT effort - sustained power over 20-30 minutes - than most hills in the UK. If I were you I would arrange a trip to park at BlackMills and then do the shorter Dragon as a training ride - so you take in the three main climbs. It'll take around 4 hours.

The extra loop towards Brecon is just long drags really, so easy enough as long as you get your feeding correct.

The nastiest climb is Cymla, out of Neath, up to the last feeding stop. So make sure that you save something until then, and then once you're over the Bwlch the second time, the rest is a breeze.

The Running Man

Sound advice GS :

She who must be obeyed has a regular trip to Cowbridge to have her hair done (don't ask) so it'll gives me a chance to pop up the valley and have a reccy of the route. I'm planning on riding Cymla as part of the familiarisation process.

Although I don't want to scare myself silly

Bronzie

The Running Man wrote:

Wow!! An hour faster over appx 120 miles is an increase of 2mph on your average.

You must have been putting the work in

Not belittling Sampras38's time, but the roads used for the Dragon are fairly quick (quite a few well-surfaced A & B roads), the climbs are long but not particularly steep and with the big groups that form it's surprisingly easy to achieve a good average speed.

Learining how to make the most of riding in a group will stand you in good stead.

DaSy

I live near Reading, but the other half is from Skewen (near Neath), and she used to make a regular trip down to Skewen to get her hair done.

I fully encourage it, as it means I get to ride the valleys at least one or twice a month, what with trips to see her parents chucked in...

There are lots of nice circular routes that get the Bwlch, Rhigos and Cimla in about a 60 mile route. In fact that is my mission for Saturday, although I may scarifice the Rhigos for Maerdy mountain as it's a lovely ride down to Maerdy from Aberdare.

The Running Man

@ Da Sy

I feel your pain

I'm originally a Caerphilly boy so it's almost a home fixture for me!!

Dave P1

Running Man the climbs are more like Box Hill than Bowden Hill, none of the climbs are as steep as Bowden Hill. If you are doing that sort of mileage per week then you should have no trouble getting round, I would go long and train for the length of ride. I did hill reps in Bath every now and again just to make sure I could do the hills but concentrated on getting long rides in.

I agree that Cimla felt the nastiest climb, it isn't any steeper than the others but its position towards the end and after a long flat, fast section can be a shock to the system and can be cramp inducing. The food stop at the top was most welcome.

chrisw12

DaSy wrote:

I live near Reading, but the other half is from Skewen (near Neath), and she used to make a regular trip down to Skewen to get her hair done.

I fully encourage it, as it means I get to ride the valleys at least one or twice a month, what with trips to see her parents chucked in...

There are lots of nice circular routes that get the Bwlch, Rhigos and Cimla in about a 60 mile route. In fact that is my mission for Saturday, although I may scarifice the Rhigos for Maerdy mountain as it's a lovely ride down to Maerdy from Aberdare.

It wasn't a lovely ride tonight in the p ing down rain.

But aint I the lucky one, those mountains are my commute home. Maerdy if I want a quick ride or Rhigos twice for my 2x20's. Too cold up there at the moment though.

DaSy

chrisw12 wrote:

It wasn't a lovely ride tonight in the p ing down rain.

But aint I the lucky one, those mountains are my commute home. Maerdy if I want a quick ride or Rhigos twice for my 2x20's. Too cold up there at the moment though.

Yeah, I'm not too hopeful for a glorius ride in the the Welsh Alps this weekend to be honest, but I have done way too much turboing recently and think that even a wet and windy Bwlch will be a nice ride for me....

Edit to ask - is the tea van braving the weather at the top of the Rhigos at the moment?

chrisw12

Don't know tbh. I'm usually suffering too much to notice him

Anyway, save your money and buy two cups for the same price at the bottom.

acidstrato

well looking forward to the dragon ride however havent started getting the regular miles in yet due to weather/light. not too concerned with the distance tbh although whether i can do it in under 7 hours i'm not sure. i think 7-7.5hrs will be my target

The Running Man

Thanks Dave P1 : that's really reassuring. Box gradient I can manage comfortably and the compact will come in handy for anything sharper.

I will go down to the course and have a bit of a ride round anyway. The biggest thing for me will be getting time in the saddle now and gradually building up to regular 5 and 6 hour rides on the weekends and as I said chucking some bigger climbs in at the end of my rides.

AND getting a good eating discpline sorted is my next task!! I am dreadful at eating only when I'm hanging rather than re-fuelling consistently. I'm off down to Total Fitness to get a carton full of energy bars and gels

sampras38

Dave P1 wrote:

Running Man the climbs are more like Box Hill than Bowden Hill, none of the climbs are as steep as Bowden Hill. If you are doing that sort of mileage per week then you should have no trouble getting round, I would go long and train for the length of ride. I did hill reps in Bath every now and again just to make sure I could do the hills but concentrated on getting long rides in.

I agree that Cimla felt the nastiest climb, it isn't any steeper than the others but its position towards the end and after a long flat, fast section can be a shock to the system and can be cramp inducing. The food stop at the top was most welcome.

I didn't find the climbs in wales anything like Box Hill, apart from perhaps the Cimla. And a friend of mine who had never done a sportive before rode with me in Wales last year and he actually commented up one of them by saying "is this it?". I think he'd heard a few riders big the dragon up a bit too much..

pontarlier_pete

I'm also doing it for the first time this year (190k version). For the climbs, if anyone has the iCols app on their iPhone, the Bwlch is on there. Average gradient is 4.2% apparently, 6.4k rising 268m. That doesn't make it sound too bad* really.

*Don't quote me on that at the end though....

sampras38

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

I'm also doing it for the first time this year (190k version). For the climbs, if anyone has the iCols app on their iPhone, the Bwlch is on there. Average gradient is 4.2% apparently, 6.4k rising 268m. That doesn't make it sound too bad* really.

*Don't quote me on that at the end though....

Nahh, they're not all that really.

Just take your time, eat and drink well and make sure you have enough left for the last Cimla. After that just enjoy it..;-)

GeorgeShaw

The Running Man wrote:

AND getting a good eating discpline sorted is my next task!! I am dreadful at eating only when I'm hanging rather than re-fuelling consistently. I'm off down to Total Fitness to get a carton full of energy bars and gels

Plenty of opportunity to re-fuel outside of the the big climbs and descents. Most of the rest of the route is long draggy climbs and gradual descents so, for example, plenty of time to relax and re-fuel comprehensively while wheelsucking down the valley to Neath before the final climbs up Cimla and the Bwlch.

oldwelshman

Bronzie wrote:

The Running Man wrote:

Wow!! An hour faster over appx 120 miles is an increase of 2mph on your average.

You must have been putting the work in

Not belittling Sampras38's time, but the roads used for the Dragon are fairly quick (quite a few well-surfaced A & B roads), the climbs are long but not particularly steep and with the big groups that form it's surprisingly easy to achieve a good average speed.

Learining how to make the most of riding in a group will stand you in good stead.

+ 1, but from what I remember Bronzie, you had a bit of a tumble the once, due to the timing mat not the road
I managed 19mph av on this route quite easily even though I was alone for lots of the ride, but the difference on this route is the speed at which you can descend down the Bwlch, Rhigos, Brecon etc.
You should try the tour of pembroke!! Worked my ass off for 120 miles and did not av 17moh as the descents and twisty, narrow coastal roads so can't get up more than 30mph even on the faster bits, stunning route though.
Don't under estimate the dragon in some parts, if you happen to get a windy day over to Pen Y Fan you could end up in first gear into a block wind, but they have been lucky last couple of years, much better to be in a group over there.
I have also seen many die on Cimla as it is quite steep in parts and not far short of a mile, but its on the back end of the ride and you still have the long part of the Bwlch to do.
For those claiming the ride does not have many steep climbs, well thats not the point of a sportive, if the oprganisers wanted to, believe me theres more than enough absolute basxxrds of stupidly steep climbs they cpould have chosen but this route is a good route as it can cater for such high entry numbers safely, and not too difficult that beginners cannot do it, and quite good prep for foreign sportives.
Anyone want go go there for specific steep climbs,(off the dragon route) let me know and I will join you on some training rides there as I often go back training there

LeighB

As a rough guide I use a marathon runners training schedule; 3 x average daily distance to point of collapse. So if The Running Man is covering 250 miles a week this works out at about 35 a day so 35 x 3 = 105 miles. You should be fine on the ride you have entered but don't make the mistake of setting off too fast (as I have on a few occasions) and struggling at the end.
Good luck.

sampras38

oldwelshman wrote:

Bronzie wrote:

The Running Man wrote:

Wow!! An hour faster over appx 120 miles is an increase of 2mph on your average.

You must have been putting the work in

Not belittling Sampras38's time, but the roads used for the Dragon are fairly quick (quite a few well-surfaced A & B roads), the climbs are long but not particularly steep and with the big groups that form it's surprisingly easy to achieve a good average speed.

Learining how to make the most of riding in a group will stand you in good stead.

+ 1, but from what I remember Bronzie, you had a bit of a tumble the once, due to the timing mat not the road
I managed 19mph av on this route quite easily even though I was alone for lots of the ride, but the difference on this route is the speed at which you can descend down the Bwlch, Rhigos, Brecon etc.
You should try the tour of pembroke!! Worked my ass off for 120 miles and did not av 17moh as the descents and twisty, narrow coastal roads so can't get up more than 30mph even on the faster bits, stunning route though.
Don't under estimate the dragon in some parts, if you happen to get a windy day over to Pen Y Fan you could end up in first gear into a block wind, but they have been lucky last couple of years, much better to be in a group over there.
I have also seen many die on Cimla as it is quite steep in parts and not far short of a mile, but its on the back end of the ride and you still have the long part of the Bwlch to do.
For those claiming the ride does not have many steep climbs, well thats not the point of a sportive, if the oprganisers wanted to, believe me theres more than enough absolute basxxrds of stupidly steep climbs they cpould have chosen but this route is a good route as it can cater for such high entry numbers safely, and not too difficult that beginners cannot do it, and quite good prep for foreign sportives.
Anyone want go go there for specific steep climbs,(off the dragon route) let me know and I will join you on some training rides there as I often go back training there

Spot on

The Running Man

Cheers guys : will keep you posted on progress.

Took a detour home last night to get in a steady 1.5 mile climb up Bannerdown (one of the other hillier routes out of Bath) followed by a gentle climb out of Castle Combe up to Chippenham and then Chippenham up the A4 to Calne.

There's another good climb up out of Bath past the golf club at Kingsdown that I'm going to do at least twice a week as well so I get some regualr long efforts under my belt.

It's funny how the discipline of having entered the ride is making me look for hilly routes and in a completely perverse kind of way to enjoy them!!