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What is best to drink while training and riding

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  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,463
    Initially I said water, water, water. I doubt anyone disagrees with the need for it being critical for human survival(as opposed to beer, wine, milk, etc.). Well, maybe not beer.
    Therefore, it's the BEST thing to drink. That's all. I don't dispute the need for all the other
    things that are necessary for survival(electrolytes, etc.) but you can lose enough water in a single day to cause DEATH and all the electrolytes in the world won't replace your need for water.
  • sampras38sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    For pure hydration and electrolytes I've been using the new product from Elete and I have to say I've noticed an improvement over my usual Nuun tablets. It works slightly different in the fact that it's tasteless and you can add it to water, energy drinks or even food, and the main thing I've noticed is I have less of a desire to pee, even on long rides where I'm drinking loads. Supposed to really help with cramp too but then I've never been much of a sufferer so can't comment.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,463
    Edwin
    How do you explain conditioned athletes sweating more volume but less salt. Sweat is salty because the body can only move water by altering concentration gradients rather than any sort of bulk transport from within. (other than peeing)

    Most excess dietary electrolytes are removed by the kidneys and leave in urine.

    You can drink seawater rectally.

    You cannot drink seawater orally due to the levels of salt being very high and so it completely ballses up your homeostatic balance.

    I actually looked up the rectum thing(very slow day at work). Seems that you can absorb
    saline water by this method i.e. saline enema, to kill parasites. This is at much lower salt levels though, and most people couldn't hold sea water in as saline causes peristalsis and sea water would be way to strong.
    Now wasn't that interesting.
  • ScrumpleScrumple Posts: 2,666
    Is this thread still going????

    It can't be that difficult. Water, suger, and salt.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    Scrumple wrote:
    Is this thread still going????

    It can't be that difficult. Water, suger, and salt.

    Minus sugar. Minus salt. Apparently. Until July anyway.
  • dennisn wrote:
    I would play devils advocate and note that "This web page is brought to you by Gatorade".
    But it would appear you have glossed over the following:

    What should athletes drink?

    Research shows that fluid intake is enhanced when beverages are cool (~15 °C), flavoured and contain sodium (salt). This makes sports drinks an ideal choice during exercise. Sports drinks are not gimmicks. They are legitimate products that are well researched and proven to improve fluid intake and performance.

    A great deal of science has gone into developing the flavour profile of sports drinks so that they encourage fluid intake during exercise. In addition, sports drinks contain carbohydrate at a concentration (4-8%) that allows refueling to take place during exercise.

    Several studies demonstrate that use of sports drinks will improve fluid intake. A study conducted with AIS netball and basketball players in 1999 demonstrated better fluid balance with a sports drink compared to water. This is consistently observed across our sporting programs.

    Even athletes who prefer to drink water during exercise, demonstrate better fluid intake when forced to drink sports drink.
  • jacster wrote:
    You might find this, and several of the other items on this website to be of help in sorting the wheat from the chaff (or the water from the sports drinks):
    http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... o_needs_it

    Good to see they put emphasis on strength and conditioning Alex. :wink:
    Program interruption brought to you by Jacster...

    Sure, but they also do so on a sports specific basis, with S&C advice like the following:

    Understand the exercise and training protocol and the effect it will have on the athlete: increases in strength, power, endurance, general fitness or hypertrophy (note: for the majority of sports an increase in body weight hypertrophy without a proportionally high increase in strength or power is counterproductive).

    Fortunately I have been to the gym used by the AIS cycling program and spoken with their S&C specialist (an exercise physiologist) while there. The endurance cyclists don't do all that much gym work. Their work is done on their bikes. The track sprint riders do of course but even that work is quite specialised and focussed on explosiveness, not so much on strength. Even the trackies are usually strong enough already.

    Now, back to your regular programming.
  • jacsterjacster Posts: 177
    The endurance cyclists don't do all that much gym work. Their work is done on their bikes.

    Bit of a woolly statement there Alex.
    But it's great you finally link to experts who believe in such work. :wink:
  • jacster wrote:
    The endurance cyclists don't do all that much gym work. Their work is done on their bikes.

    Bit of a woolly statement there Alex.
    But it's great you finally link to experts who believe in such work. :wink:
    No, I linked to expert information from those who have thoroughly examined the use of sports drinks versus plain water for elite athletes and those in hard training. Whether that' helps the OP or not I'm not sure, depends on their training really.

    At least it was on topic.

    As for the AIS S&C guys, I'm not entirely sure what you think they believe? I went back and looked at my notes from the 4 hour session with the AIS S&C coach. The enduros do NO strength work. So that's a pretty clear statement of what they believe.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program....
  • jacsterjacster Posts: 177
    Sorry OP for going off-topic.

    Alex,
    Strange how you initially thought they did some with your assertion that they "don't do all that much".
    Anyway the AIS - the institute you linked to - says that "strength and conditioning forms an integral part of the development of all AIS athletes".
    And it goes on to say that "Each athlete is required to fill in a training diary for each weight training session".
    The AIS also advises to:
    "Use multi-joint free weight exercises where possible (and where safe) as they are more effective for the development of sporting specific qualities."
    And it adds: "Lifting weights can is beneficial for all athletes (including endurance athletes and female athletes) and if done correctly will not increase muscle mass at all."

    Not sure which athletes you were monitoring, but if they weren't adhering to AIS policy then perhaps this ought to be brought to the AIS's attention. :wink:
  • jacster wrote:
    Sorry OP for going off-topic.

    Alex,
    Strange how you initially thought they did some with your assertion that they "don't do all that much".
    Anyway the AIS - the institute you linked to - says that "strength and conditioning forms an integral part of the development of all AIS athletes".
    And it goes on to say that "Each athlete is required to fill in a training diary for each weight training session".
    The AIS also advises to:
    "Use multi-joint free weight exercises where possible (and where safe) as they are more effective for the development of sporting specific qualities."
    And it adds: "Lifting weights can is beneficial for all athletes (including endurance athletes and female athletes) and if done correctly will not increase muscle mass at all."

    Not sure which athletes you were monitoring, but if they weren't adhering to AIS policy then perhaps this ought to be brought to the AIS's attention. :wink:
    Yes, that would be correct for endurance athletes where strength training would make sense. No mention of endurance cycling in that lot.

    There is, for example, reasonable evidence of the benefits of some strength work for those involved in aerobic endurance sport with ballistic/impact style activity, e.g. runners, footballers, tennis players etc. But not for endurance cyclists, hence the AIS endurance cyclists don't do strength work. It's the specificity principle.

    But if you are so concerned about the AIS "policies", I'm sure they would love to hear from you.

    The reason I said they may be in the gym is they have had some enduros do remedial work, e.g. after cycling crash injury, or need to set up indoor training when such an injury prevents them riding the bike normally. Hence not much. Some do a bit of gym stuff for something different/fun, but under heavy supervision to ensure they don't injure themselves, but not strength work.

    Also, of course the sprint cyclists do a lot of gym work, since that does have some benefit to sprint cycling performance.

    Why do you persist with your logical fallcies? It's rather tedious.
  • jacster wrote:
    Sorry OP for going off-topic.
    If you were truly sorry, you wouldn't do it in the first place. :roll:
  • EdwinEdwin Posts: 785
    Agreed, please start yet another thread on whether cyclists should do weights. I feel we haven't discussed this enough yet :roll:

    Although if you insist.....what's the best thing to drink whilst doing weights? :lol:
  • jacsterjacster Posts: 177
    Yes, that would be correct for endurance athletes where strength training would make sense. No mention of endurance cycling in that lot.

    There is, for example, reasonable evidence of the benefits of some strength work for those involved in aerobic endurance sport with ballistic/impact style activity, e.g. runners, footballers, tennis players etc. But not for endurance cyclists, hence the AIS endurance cyclists don't do strength work. It's the specificity principle.

    But if you are so concerned about the AIS "policies", I'm sure they would love to hear from you.

    The reason I said they may be in the gym is they have had some enduros do remedial work, e.g. after cycling crash injury, or need to set up indoor training when such an injury prevents them riding the bike normally. Hence not much. Some do a bit of gym stuff for something different/fun, but under heavy supervision to ensure they don't injure themselves, but not strength work.

    Also, of course the sprint cyclists do a lot of gym work, since that does have some benefit to sprint cycling performance.

    Why do you persist with your logical fallcies? It's rather tedious.

    Alex,
    I'm pointing to the advice from the institute YOU linked to. No fallacies there. Just facts.
    Cyclists are athletes, just like any of the other sportsmen/women looked after by the institute.
    And that institute states that strength and conditioning forms an integral part of the development of ALL athletes. It doesn't discriminate.
    To argue differently, because of your own viewpoints, is simply wrong.
    The facts are there on the AIS's website..the same AIS you linked to to provide information on the use of sports drinks.
  • Alex_Simmons/RSTAlex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    edited January 2010
    jacster wrote:
    Alex,
    I'm pointing to the advice from the institute YOU linked to. No fallacies there. Just facts.
    Cyclists are athletes, just like any of the other sportsmen/women looked after by the institute.
    And that institute states that strength and conditioning forms an integral part of the development of ALL athletes. It doesn't discriminate.
    To argue differently, because of your own viewpoints, is simply wrong.
    The facts are there on the AIS's website..the same AIS you linked to to provide information on the use of sports drinks.
    This has nothing to do with my viewpoint - it is the viewpoint of the S&C guy in charge of all cyclists at the AIS.

    As to their website's reference to ALL athletes, well for some it's less about strength and more about conditioning (and for others it more about strength and less about conditioning). In the case of the endurance cyclists, it's zippo strength and all about conditioning. That is still S&C advice.

    I don't suppose that by any slim chance this occured to you when reading the generic S&C statement on their web site? Presumably not.
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    Alex - that hydration article seems to suggest that a major part of successful hydration seems to be the athlete's motivation to actually drink. Quite true - If i'm only on water with added sodium, it tastes weird and I find I drink a LOT more if I add some fruit juice to it. I had no idea there was so much science behind the odd (but addictive) flavourings of some sports drinks.
  • jacsterjacster Posts: 177
    This has nothing to do with my viewpoint - it is the viewpoint of the S&C guy in charge of all cyclists at the AIS.

    As to their website's reference to ALL athletes, well for some it's less about strength and more about conditioning (and for others it more about strength and less about conditioning). In the case of the endurance cyclists, it's zippo strength and all about conditioning. That is still S&C advice.

    I don't suppose that by any slim chance this occured to you when reading the generic S&C statement on their web site? Presumably not.

    You can put all the spin on it you like, saying so and so believes this, so and so believes that. (For someone who likes evidence there's a distinct lack of it on your part in this case! :wink::wink: )
    But the fact is it's there in black and white for all to see.
  • jacster wrote:
    You can put all the spin on it you like, saying so and so believes this, so and so believes that. (For someone who likes evidence there's a distinct lack of it on your part in this case! :wink::wink: )
    But the fact is it's there in black and white for all to see.
    jacster, you appear to have comprehension difficulties as well as knack for argument via logical fallacies which simply serves to continually undermine your own position (whatever that is, who can tell?). Fortunately I don't think most others reading this have the same problem.

    I really do suggest you get to understand what logical fallacies are. There's lots of good resources on them. What will happen of course by recognising and avoiding such logical fallacies is you will probably find there isn't much to argue with me over. But where there is a legitimate argument, it would make you a much more interesting person to debate with.

    As it is now, you're just boring us with your petty fallacious (not to mentioned OT) ways instead of adding something constructive to the OP's question.
  • jacsterjacster Posts: 177
    I'd say you've been rumbled kid. :wink:
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