The standard of 4th Cat racing?

Hunterg46

Anybody know roughly the standard of 4th Cat racing? Distance, Ave speed..?

Thanks

Infamous

The easiest of all races.

Hunterg46

I know that - but how easy?

softlad

there's no answer to that fella, because everyone's fitness is different. One person's 'easy' race is another person's grovelling pain-fest. Ride a few and make your own mind up...

Hunterg46

Any idea on the length of the races?

RoadieBob

Assuming you don't have any experience of racing or fast group rides, you'll probably find it tough until you learn how to sit in a pack comfortably. Regarding the distance, if you're looking at 4th cat only races, that probably means closed circuit, which will mean around 45 minutes to 1 hour. I wouldn't worry too much about the actual distance covered in these - just make sure you're fit enough to ride reasonably hard for an hour.

Hunterg46

okay thanks, i'll give it a try

gattocattivo

I've done a few 4th cat races at Hog Hill. As a very rough guide I'd say the average speed of the leaders is about 23mph, but that's not really telling you much because the pace varies so much: you'll be doing 36 on one stretch and 11 on another.

GiantMike

I'd treat the first few as experience only and get used to the bunch riding and speed changes. My first race was a disaster because I lost track of where I was in the bunch and within seconds I was 20ft off the back, soon 200m. I had to fight my way back on my own and eventually caught them, but lost them on the next fast section and was then totally dropped (I was suffering a cold though). Hard work, but good fun.

magicrhodes

I wasn't dropped it was just no one noticed I was about to lap them that is why I looked tired!

nolf

Infamous wrote:

The easiest of all races.

+1.

4th cat races on paved outdor tracks = easiest of the easy. Cruise around at 20mph for a bit, then a mad dangerous sprint as everyone chooses a line (not necessarily a straight one) and puts their head down to the finish.

Handicap TLI's are pretty easy as well (depending on the field).

Hunterg46

So it obviously varies then... :?

RoadieBob

Hunterg46 wrote:

So it obviously varies then... :?

Absolutely. The pace of a road (or closed circuit) race is determined by how fast everyone else is riding (unless you're feeling strong and decide to push things along). You'll find that you'll be sitting around in the pack, cruising along on someone's wheel for some of it, then when someone decides to go for it you might be flat out for a few minutes hanging on to the bunch, particularly if it's a hilly course. That is unless you're a really strong rider, in which case you should be able to hang on to a cat 4 pack without too much trouble, and might even dish out some pain yourself!

Best way to find out is to just give it a go, or join a club and go on some of their group rides. For the first couple of times concentrate on riding smoothly in the pack - stay relaxed, hold a steady line, and try to anticipate any changes in pace.

Chip \'oyler

nolf wrote:

Infamous wrote:

The easiest of all races.

+1.

4th cat races on paved outdor tracks = easiest of the easy. Cruise around at 20mph for a bit, then a mad dangerous sprint as everyone chooses a line (not necessarily a straight one) and puts their head down to the finish.

Handicap TLI's are pretty easy as well (depending on the field).

You must be one of them riders that does no work, and waits for the Elite/1st cat group to catch you

Tom1990

The average 4th cat race will be about 1 hour long, have a few crashes, lots of leg hair, and the average speed will vary according to conditions, location etc.

If you can ride faster than about 27 minutes for a 10 mile TT you will be fine.
The best advice is to just get out and give it a go, and keep at it.

Hunterg46

i dont like the sound of a few crashes :shock:

but yeah 27minutes no probs :P

Bhima

How many breaks in the final few km actually are successful on average? Although i'm an ok sprinter and have been in a few bunch sprints on training rides, I think I'm going to try a breakaway on my first race as I can imagine that there would be a lot of inexperienced sprinters there and people taking akward lines etc...

This is all assuming that the race conditions on the day are what I currently expect. Things might be different.

I know every race is different but I'd just like to know what my chances generally are. Does the peloton get faster in an attempt to stop breakaways close to the end or is there a lull in the action as nobody wants to create a lead-out for anyone else and people start to hesitate?

Either way, i'm looking forward to it and i'll probably end up changing tactics as the race goes on. There's no way you can plan a race to a certain extent...

Hunterg46

Yeah, thats what i was thinking, an early(ish) breakaway in the hope the others wont know what to do....

Anyone know what youth races are like aswell... ?

Tom1990

@Bhima: It would be better to just sit in the top 5 for the last few km's, and go early in the sprint (as long as you can hold it to the line). Breaks are best if you go early on and get a good lead built up, but in 4th cat races this is hard as people don't tend to work together and are inexperienced at through and off etc. Also, going by yourself is almost impossible. You need at least 2 others with you to have much of a chance usually. If you are a cancellara type rider then going from a few k's out might work, but its an all or nothing tactic. If it works, you win. If it fails, you don't place in the top 10 at all and don't get any points.

You will probably find that you just get caught up in the excitement of racing and tactics go out the window anyway.

@Hungerg46: Youth races normally have about 5 riders in them.

Chip \'oyler

Have you ever watched schoolboys play football? All 10 outfield players crowded round the ball chasing it all over the pitch and flailing wildly in a vain attempt to kick it?

That's 4th cat racing

nolf

Chip \'oyler wrote:

nolf wrote:

Infamous wrote:

The easiest of all races.

+1.

4th cat races on paved outdor tracks = easiest of the easy. Cruise around at 20mph for a bit, then a mad dangerous sprint as everyone chooses a line (not necessarily a straight one) and puts their head down to the finish.

Handicap TLI's are pretty easy as well (depending on the field).

You must be one of them riders that does no work, and waits for the Elite/1st cat group to catch you

No, I ride with that group

Bronzie

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Have you ever watched schoolboys play football? All 10 outfield players crowded round the ball chasing it all over the pitch and flailing wildly in a vain attempt to kick it?

That's 4th cat racing

Excellent analogy

Anonymous

My first race I did everything i was told not to. I got bosed in on the left, ( anti clockwise road race) and didn't pay attention to the riders creeping round the bunch, so I was slowly squeezed to the back without noticing. I got kicked out the back on the third lap at a hill, as the group just went and I could not get back on by myself.

If you are racing for the first time and on a road course, do a recce of the course, as I also had no idea where we started from the neutralised start, and where the finish was. I was so amp'ed up for my first race and it all went wrong. The rest have gotten better....

turnerjohn

dmclite wrote:

My first race I did everything i was told not to. I got bosed in on the left, ( anti clockwise road race) and didn't pay attention to the riders creeping round the bunch, so I was slowly squeezed to the back without noticing. I got kicked out the back on the third lap at a hill, as the group just went and I could not get back on by myself.

If you are racing for the first time and on a road course, do a recce of the course, as I also had no idea where we started from the neutralised start, and where the finish was. I was so amp'ed up for my first race and it all went wrong. The rest have gotten better....

+1 Exactly the same happened to me on my first !

Cat 4 only racing is one thing, try a Cat 3/4 its totally different; 2hrs approx racing, around 50+miles average approx 25mph...its hard !

genki

turnerjohn wrote:

Cat 4 only racing is one thing, try a Cat 3/4 its totally different; 2hrs approx racing, around 50+miles average approx 25mph...its hard !

Not always the case. I only did one Cat 4 race where the average pace was under 23mph. The other three I did were all about 24.5mph. I did a few handicap races where the Cat 4's were pretty organised and stayed away by doing 24-25mph (both when I've been in the pack and chasing it). I think each year you get some fit novices who can drive the pace up, until they get enough points to move up the ladder. Whereas some of the Cat 3 or 2/3 races I've done have been at a slower 23-24mph because you get more negative racing with breaks being chased down and then the whole pack slows up.

milese

Tom1990 wrote:

The average 4th cat race will be about 1 hour long, have a few crashes, lots of leg hair, and the average speed will vary according to conditions, location etc.

If you can ride faster than about 27 minutes for a 10 mile TT you will be fine.
The best advice is to just get out and give it a go, and keep at it.

How flat / hilly is your average 10 mile TT?

fastercyclist

Milese wrote:

Tom1990 wrote:

The average 4th cat race will be about 1 hour long, have a few crashes, lots of leg hair, and the average speed will vary according to conditions, location etc.

If you can ride faster than about 27 minutes for a 10 mile TT you will be fine.
The best advice is to just get out and give it a go, and keep at it.

How flat / hilly is your average 10 mile TT?

I've noticed time trial courses all seem designed to make you go as fast as you can. A good idea is to search local club websites to try and figure out the names of local time trial courses then see if you can find a copy of the course. This is what I did so I could gauge my fitness, also you can look up their results pages for benchmark times.

oldwelshman

Too complicated, just enter a race and ride.

Seanos

Have a look on youtube.

Tom Butcher

Most 4ths only races tend to be fairly flat circuit races. The combination of the course and the field being mainly novices will mean it's not that hard to stay in the bunch. The downside is the fairly flat circuit, the fact people aren't going to be so good at working a break and the relatively short distance of the racing means that it's harder to get a break established. Best thing to do is just enter, try and ride fairly near the front, have a few digs to try and get away or join others who have tried, and when that likely doesn't work open up your sprint fairly early - fewer people in front of you in the sprint means less chance of getting caught up in the occasional crashes in bunch sprints.

richard_l

While there are not many 4th only RR's, there are a few in the BC West Midlands Region. Try 47 miles on a road course, on 28th March.

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... sultspp=20


There are some 4ths only circuit races at Victoria Park Leamington on Saturday 27th March and Saturday 10th April as well.

Then 25th April, 4ths only road event (though similar geography to a circuit race) at Birmingham Business Park