How would you change the structure of racing in the UK?

alan_sherman

The thrust of my point is that cycling exists today because of voluneers. The number of volunteers is falling despite cycling increasing in popularity. Therfore UNLESS we get more volunteering then there will be a void which a commercial organisation might fill.

Regarding BC - I think it is comparable to other sporting bodies in terms of membership - but don't know how it compares for the organiser side of things.

MikeWW

Feel a bit like the odd one out but I have been really impressed with BC and the whole cycling club scene.
Me and my son only started to get more serious mid July last year. Since then and after joining a club he has been on an RSR coaching session (as have some of his friends) which was really well run and attended presentations on how the sport is being developed.
There is a wealth of races to enter-many of which are less than an hour away and it all seems incredibly well organised and very performance orientated.
I'm sure its not perfect but how many other sports can boast the achievements of British Cycling on the track?

Dess1e

nolf wrote:

When I tried to organise a road races for universities of the North, on the nationals circuit in Yorkshire, I was given a quote from an insurance company for around £350-£400 for the event as a whole (3rd party cover). With a maximum of 80 participants, so long as the BC criteria for marshalling and support was met. I was told that an insurer would be required, despite the event being run under the umbrella of BC.

Pretty much everything I did independantly, including finding an insurance company that would insure us. BC were singularly unhelpful in prividing a race handbook, or offering any advice whatsoever. Why aren't they actively encouraging people to set up races and making it as easy as possible?

The point about BC levies is an excellent one.
Why do individual events need to get their own insurance backing, when to race you have to be insured by the governing body?
Take away the dispraportionate insurance costs and you've got a heck of a lot of money to pay for everything, even if race fees were £10. And you could pay the volunteers.

Your BC permit application fee includes the event insurance. Or at least it has with all of the events (20+) that I've organised under the BC umbrella over the last few years.

One very important cost missing from all of the above is first aid, NEG is also a cost (that I wouldn't do without these days)

Tom Butcher

I'm not sure why the University event mentioned above required insurance. I've organised three 2/3/4 events over the last 3 years and each time the insurance (think it was for about £6 million or something) was included in the BC fees.

As for what you get for BC fees. Well I suppose the insurance for one, but also stuff like the training of the commissaires (my race had three), advertising the race in the calendar, support from BC on any questions you have and so on. I think the levies are something like £3 a rider plus a regional fee (varies but no more than a pound a rider) and then race/HQ registration - so for a field of 80 you are looking at maybe £400. I don't blindly support BC in everything but in my opinion they aren't using the levies as a money making racket.

Looking at budgeting I reckon £12-£15 for a full field RR is about right - that's funding the race just from entries so no income from sponsorship etc. That's the sort of entry fee you need to be sure of covering costs - for me that covered 4 St Johns including their car, 3 commissaires, 2 moto marshalls etc. If NEG becomes a requirement then it might go up but that depends on how many NEG bikes, if accredited marshalls are required and they require expenses then depending on how many I reckon road races will go up quite a bit or more organisers will have to look at getting sponsorship to cover costs - again depends if all marshalls are accredited or just a couple I don't know how it works in Wales.

So basically I think BC do a good job but I still wouldn't favour giving them a monopoly because TLI/LVRC offer an alternative if ever BC are not doing a good job.

Edit : cross post with Des there

barrybridges

So, if BC are the ones providing the insurance, you are agreed that there are no other insurance costs for an event to be run? As in, that's what you pay your BC fees for.

So, looking at the pure costs for an event:

BC (which covers insurance)
First aid
Possible hire of venue/meeting point
Possible payment for commissaires
Printing costs
Prizes

Let's say the average cost for entering an event is £10 (which it's not, it's more). A field of 80 = £800 income.

So, HALF of your income goes towards BC?

And then...why do riders need to be BC members in order to race? Sorry to sound like a broken record, but if BC are providing insurance, support and resources to the organiser for a fee, why do racers (outside of entry level events) have to £32 a year for a racing licence? It can't be for insurance - as that's already covered on a race-by-race basis - so what is it?

I just don't see why someone can't turn up, pay and ride...

Dess1e

There are two types of insurance at play here Barry. Event insurance, paid for by levies etc, cover the event itself and officials and Rider 3rd party insurance covered by the riders membership.

Added to that the service to the rider provided by BC includes collating race results and rider rankings, and catagories. Then in the background you have Regional event officals liaising with clubs, promoters, local highways authorities and the police to try and keep us on the road.

barrybridges

Dess1e wrote:

There are two types of insurance at play here Barry. Event insurance, paid for by levies etc, cover the event itself and officials and Rider 3rd party insurance covered by the riders membership.

Ah right...I thought it would be more complicated! But am I right in thinking that the organiser only pays ONE lot of insurance (in the form of BC fees) - and that the rider pays the other (via BC membership)?

Tom Butcher

Correct

nolf

Dess1e wrote:

Your BC permit application fee includes the event insurance. Or at least it has with all of the events (20+) that I've organised under the BC umbrella over the last few years.

One very important cost missing from all of the above is first aid, NEG is also a cost (that I wouldn't do without these days)

It was setup within the BC, but due to it being an AU event we had to have extra insurance cover for all racers who did not have BC licenses (which we couldn't make compulsory), and BC event insurance didn't cover them. So that was the extra insurance.

First aid was included under the "BC requirements".

Dess1e

Couldn't you have used "Day Licences"?

Slow1972

There seems to be two competing threads here, on the one hand saving cost and the other running races more professionally. I raced quite a few RRs last year and our club puts one on (as well as few CTT TTs, a cross race and this year a TLI race as well )

I don't know about anyone else but I wouldnt consider a race to be professionally run if they had attempted to run a race without having a HQ for changing/ sign on etc. Likewise, I am happy to pay a bit more more money on an entrance fees to have NEG riders rather just a lead car.

In the area I live in membership numbers in clubs are increasing and most races have full fields (as reflected by record numbers of BC membership) So if anything, what is required is more availability of races for people coming into the sport. Closed circuit races, whcih should supplement rather than replace road racing help in this regard as although there is the circuit hire costs, there is no need fo cars and NEG and fields can be larger with many run as EOL events. These offer a safer entry point for new racers.

With regard to the commisaires picking on riders who break rules, I dont know what region you are in but in the North West there were Cat 3/4 races last year where riders were disqualified for crossing solid white lines.