2x20mins session

bigricky
bigricky Posts: 92
edited January 2010 in Training, fitness and health
Hi all,
what is this 2x20mins turbo intervals you all keep going on about? is it just if you have a power meter? or can you do it with a eart rate monitor? i take it it's good for training for 10 mile time trals?

Comments

  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Not being funny as I hate it when people say this, but do a search as there's loads of info. already there and much more than you'll ever get as a reply from one thread.
  • mask of sanity
    mask of sanity Posts: 610
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Not being funny as I hate it when people say this, but do a search as there's loads of info. already there and much more than you'll ever get as a reply from one thread.
    Not being funny either but you could have answered the question in the time it took you to type that...

    Heart rates will work it just isn't as good due to cardiac drift (natural rising of heart rate during exercise). I do mine with a ten minute warm up, twenty minutes at 80% max heart rate, 5 minute rest time (just spin with little resistance), another twenty minutes at 80% then a five minute cool down. I think that's how most people do it.

    I don't have a great deal of knowledge on how they benefit you but I would've thought they'd help a lot with TT's. They should also increase your tolerance for pain.
  • BeaconRuth
    BeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    mask of sanity wrote:
    Heart rates will work it just isn't as good due to cardiac drift (natural rising of heart rate during exercise). I do mine with a ten minute warm up, twenty minutes at 80% max heart rate, 5 minute rest time (just spin with little resistance), another twenty minutes at 80% then a five minute cool down. I think that's how most people do it.
    I think the idea of 2x20mins is that each 20mins is a bit harder than you could do for a more extended period. Most people can probably do a complete hour, if not longer, at 80%maxHR. At times I regularly do 2 hours continuously at that kind of pace, so you're not really pushing the boat out much to do 2x20mins at that pace. Why not do a continuous hour at 80%maxHR and go for something a bit more challenging for the 2x20s?

    Ruth
    http://www.rutheyles.co.uk/
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    mask of sanity wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Not being funny as I hate it when people say this, but do a search as there's loads of info. already there and much more than you'll ever get as a reply from one thread.
    Not being funny either but you could have answered the question in the time it took you to type that...

    Heart rates will work it just isn't as good due to cardiac drift (natural rising of heart rate during exercise). I do mine with a ten minute warm up, twenty minutes at 80% max heart rate, 5 minute rest time (just spin with little resistance), another twenty minutes at 80% then a five minute cool down. I think that's how most people do it.

    I don't have a great deal of knowledge on how they benefit you but I would've thought they'd help a lot with TT's. They should also increase your tolerance for pain.

    No, I couldn't of and neither have you. You've just scratched the surface of an answer.

    I'd also suggest that you read all the other threads as well before posting advice on what intensity they should be done at and what benefit they have.
  • mask of sanity
    mask of sanity Posts: 610
    Cheers for pointing that out Ruth. I think I meant 85% but I'd only just woken up so my brain wasn't functioning fully :oops: Apologies.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Apologies to me as well? I was actually trying to be helpful with my suggestion of doing a search rather than posting wrong info. :wink:

    85% may be a bit low as well... :)
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Apologies to me as well? I was actually trying to be helpful with my suggestion of doing a search rather than posting wrong info. :wink:

    85% may be a bit low as well... :)

    Be nice Chris. Don't always be so down on the noobs!! It was the way you 'suggested' he did a search that came across as catty.


    The short answer on 2x20 is yes - it is very beneficial for 10 mile TTs (as a good 10 mile TT is in the 20-25 minute range). Personally, I do mine at 90-95% HR (but also use a powermeter to target a specific wattage). 10 minutes easy pedaling in between.


    The second one is the tough one.
  • Sam Kennedy
    Sam Kennedy Posts: 32
    I do mine at 88-92% of my max heart rate.
    I start at 88%, and once the burning has gone I slightly up the intensity to 92%, then when I can no longer bear the pain I drop back to 88% until the burning has gone again.

    I'm guessing my LT is between 85-88%, because sometimes 88% is comfortable, sometimes it isn't.
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    I don't think Chris was being catty - just saying that there is a lot of information posted on this and if the OP is new to the forum they'd find some good stuff if they search for it. Skim reading it I can see how you can read it as being catty but perhaps that's because we are all so used to people replying with "do a search" it's easy to assume that's what he was saying rather than actually reading what he wrote - iyswim.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    I don't think Chris was being catty - just saying that there is a lot of information posted on this and if the OP is new to the forum they'd find some good stuff if they search for it. Skim reading it I can see how you can read it as being catty but perhaps that's because we are all so used to people replying with "do a search" it's easy to assume that's what he was saying rather than actually reading what he wrote - iyswim.

    Thanks Tom,

    I have never (I don't think) said do a search for the sake of saying it. It's just as you said there is such good information on this subject already posted. Anyone would do well to re-read some of those threads.
  • mask of sanity
    mask of sanity Posts: 610
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    I don't think Chris was being catty - just saying that there is a lot of information posted on this and if the OP is new to the forum they'd find some good stuff if they search for it. Skim reading it I can see how you can read it as being catty but perhaps that's because we are all so used to people replying with "do a search" it's easy to assume that's what he was saying rather than actually reading what he wrote - iyswim.

    Thanks Tom,

    I have never (I don't think) said do a search for the sake of saying it. It's just as you said there is such good information on this subject already posted. Anyone would do well to re-read some of those threads.
    :oops: :oops: I owe you an apology! I just re-read your post and I now know what you meant! I read it as you 'hate it when people ask without searching' rather than you 'hate it when people tell others to do a search', Sorry about that... :oops:
  • Toks
    Toks Posts: 1,143
    Here's agood thread on 2 x 20's
    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... +threshold
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Damn - glad I read this. I was working to 5 mins max recovery time and it didn't always work for me - I could have done with the extra recovery on those ocassions. Not sure where I got that idea from but clearly it is wrong.
  • freehub
    freehub Posts: 4,257
    Does everyone find it's easier to keep a higher HR on the turbo than it is on the road? I can sit at around 90-95% for quite a while on the turbo, on the road this is not the case. I was thinking despite this I should try to keep a HR of around 80%, allthough on the turbo it's a struggle to get my HR below 70% even.
  • smithy1.0
    smithy1.0 Posts: 439
    freehub wrote:
    Does everyone find it's easier to keep a higher HR on the turbo than it is on the road? I can sit at around 90-95% for quite a while on the turbo, on the road this is not the case. I was thinking despite this I should try to keep a HR of around 80%, allthough on the turbo it's a struggle to get my HR below 70% even.

    I actually find the exact opposite. Harder to get HR up indoors. A good fan helps some though. I find with the 2x20's, best to start out slightly under your target average wattage for the first 5mins, then increase as the interval goes on. Starting hard seems to kill you at the end and result in a lower mean power output.
    XC/RR'ing + Training Blog
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    smithy1.0 wrote:
    freehub wrote:
    Does everyone find it's easier to keep a higher HR on the turbo than it is on the road? I can sit at around 90-95% for quite a while on the turbo, on the road this is not the case. I was thinking despite this I should try to keep a HR of around 80%, allthough on the turbo it's a struggle to get my HR below 70% even.

    I actually find the exact opposite. Harder to get HR up indoors. A good fan helps some though. I find with the 2x20's, best to start out slightly under your target average wattage for the first 5mins, then increase as the interval goes on. Starting hard seems to kill you at the end and result in a lower mean power output.

    Isnt that a good indication that either your target wattage is too high for your current physical capacity. the benifit of the powermeter is you can do very specific measurable and repeatable exercises provinding your "calibration" is right. It sounds like you might benifit from checking yours again.
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Interesting your thoughts there Mark,

    I've been doing them the other way, starting hard and then power has declined to the target at the end (the classic bad pacing plan)

    Now that I've done more of them and am getting a bit more dialled in, my best power has come from keeping under target for first 16 mins then picking it up for the last 4, kind of what Smithy does (different time span though.) I never thought of this as 'target wattage too high' more like good pacing.

    Trouble is with starting low is that you've got to be brave and hope/have confidence that you'll get the watts back at the end.

    See, people say these 2x20's are boring but they can be a great experiment. Which pacing strategy gives the best power?
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    doyler78 wrote:
    Damn - glad I read this. I was working to 5 mins max recovery time and it didn't always work for me - I could have done with the extra recovery on those ocassions. Not sure where I got that idea from but clearly it is wrong.

    I don't think it's wrong!

    obviously you can do these with any variation you want but I thought the rest time was to be kept to a minimum, it was just there to give a mental break or turn around get a drink, whatever. So about 5 mins.

    If you think about it, if you are doing them at 1hour tt intensity, because you are only doing 40 mins of work (rather than one hour) you should be able to do them without any break, so the break is a bonus.

    I'll say again though, each to their own and find your own variations that also allows you to do them on a regular basis.

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