Garmin 500

amcgill69

Anyone got one of these? Looking at pairing it up with new SRM's and keen to know if it's a good unit.

Cheers

chrisw12

Do an internet search if I was you, on the major triathlon and cycling sites and at garmin forums, sporttracks forums.

For what it's worth, over the years I've gone from forerunner to edge 305 to the 500 and I think it's (500) the absolute business, the dogs ...

For power training it's superb. I've got average power, 3s av. 30s av, lap av all going on the same screen at the same time. I haven't even started playing with some of the other things it does.

Also changing between bikes is very very easy, calibration is easy and satellite fix is almost instantaneous (which it wasn't on the 305 units). It seems that they did listen to what team garmin said about having ease and speed of operation.

Now some of these things might be applicable to the 705, I never had one of them.

the downside and this is biggy, it's blue!

amcgill69

Hi Chris, thanks for that. Yeah, the web reviews look good. Looks like I'll be ordering one to go with my new SRM's

doyler78

Garmin + power = frustration.

Do your research first, particularly on the power training sites as the Garmin's have been getting a very rough ride for their inability to sort existing problems without introducing more problems. How long is the 705 out now and it is still not stable so far as I can tell from my reading around.

I've been so far put off going down that route yet.

APIII

doyler78 wrote:

Garmin + power = frustration.

Do your research first, particularly on the power training sites as the Garmin's have been getting a very rough ride for their inability to sort existing problems without introducing more problems. How long is the 705 out now and it is still not stable so far as I can tell from my reading around.

I've been so far put off going down that route yet.

People generally tend to post on the net only when they have bad experiences! Garmin have sorted the 705 now as far as I'm concerned. It is an excellent device for power measurement, and I see no reason why the 500 would be any different.

chrisw12

Doyler, I hear what you are saying and I agree that some garmin products have had teething problems but the 500 seems sorted. It's as if they've learnt from the mistakes they made on the 750.

I agree with you there Ap' if you look at the garmin site you'll see one person asking about an edge which looks like it's died, it would be very easy from reading that ONE negative post to conclude that the product is rubbish

doyler78

You would think from those replies that the problems with the 705 were stupid user issues. The problems were fundamental and Garmin protracted in their attempts to sort them. How long has it take to get to stable release? Is that length of time really acceptable?

Just done a check and does seem that they have finally got their act together as there were many fewer complaints on 2.9 and now 3.1 firmwares (though I do note some still complaining about data corruption however these are now much reduced in their volume). However given the length of time it has taken them to sort really fundamental issues with their device firmware I do still have reservations about their ability to in future deal with any new issues.

I may now actually buy one of these devices. We will see...

chrisw12

doyler78 wrote:

You would think from those replies that the problems with the 705 were stupid user issues. The problems were fundamental and Garmin protracted in their attempts to sort them. How long has it take to get to stable release? Is that length of time really acceptable?

Just done a check and does seem that they have finally got their act together as there were many fewer complaints on 2.9 and now 3.1 firmwares (though I do note some still complaining about data corruption however these are now much reduced in their volume). However given the length of time it has taken them to sort really fundamental issues with their device firmware I do still have reservations about their ability to in future deal with any new issues.

I may now actually buy one of these devices. We will see...

On the face of it, yes perhaps it is unacceptable, but then when you think about the way garmin does things and think how far they are ahead of the game, then you just have to go with it, it's the price you pay for having the product early.

Is there anything anywhere near as good as the 705? If 50% of the features don't work initially it still does a hell of a lot more than every other bike computer does.[/u]

ultralight

Wait for the Cyclops Joule 2 PERFECT. End of January

doyler78

chrisw12 wrote:

doyler78 wrote:

You would think from those replies that the problems with the 705 were stupid user issues. The problems were fundamental and Garmin protracted in their attempts to sort them. How long has it take to get to stable release? Is that length of time really acceptable?

Just done a check and does seem that they have finally got their act together as there were many fewer complaints on 2.9 and now 3.1 firmwares (though I do note some still complaining about data corruption however these are now much reduced in their volume). However given the length of time it has taken them to sort really fundamental issues with their device firmware I do still have reservations about their ability to in future deal with any new issues.

I may now actually buy one of these devices. We will see...

On the face of it, yes perhaps it is unacceptable, but then when you think about the way garmin does things and think how far they are ahead of the game, then you just have to go with it, it's the price you pay for having the product early.

Is there anything anywhere near as good as the 705? If 50% of the features don't work initially it still does a hell of a lot more than every other bike computer does.[/u]

Chris I understand that early adopters have a price to pay in terms of reliability however I believe the issues were so fundamental and the process of finding solutions so protracted that they were beyond reasonable even for early adopters.

I don't accept the analogy about having the vast the majority of features and therefore if I were consumer I should be thankful for that. As a power meter owner you have spent a considerable amount of money and as a return for that investment you expect to see results however if you can't even rely on the data which another unit which you purchase, at yet more serious expense, provides and you are frustrated month after month after month with release after release which sort one problem only to create a multitude more then that affects the usefullness of that serious investment. That is what I find totally unacceptable. I'm sorry the device was in such a state that it could only be called an alpha release let alone a beta release. The major issues should have be ironed out in pre market testing and I don't understand how anyone can accept these huge failings however as always everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As regards the joule. Overpriced is my first thought however I may be tempted once there is some user feedback. I think there are some other devices which are goign to be coming out so might be worth me holding tight for a few months just to see what comes along.

chrisw12

Yeah, Doyler I don't disagree with you, you buy a power meter for accuracy and good data so the computer has to be able to use that good data, otherwise it's pointless.

In fairness to Garmin(again) wasn't the 705 released more as a mapping computer rather than a power measuring computer and wasn't the power measuring aspect added later?

If that was the case then perhaps we should be saying well done garmin in adding to the spec of an already existing piece of hardware.

As far as the Joule is concerned, totally agree over priced seems the case and it will be a case of wait and see.

The problem is that by the time the joule comes out, Garmin will have sown up the market (which again perhaps justifies their aggressive strategy of getting 'alpha tested' products out early.) A case in point weren't the joule and 500 both announced at the same time (interbike), which one is out first?

I'm starting to sound like a garmin fanboy but the powertap is a great product and I hope that the joule is a success as I'd hate to see cycleops take a hit on this.

Zippmania

Are there any problems with data transfers from Garmin Edge 500 to WKO+ software. I use a power tap hub and Edge 500 for data collection and the Garmin Connect sw seems a little limited in analysis. Is anyone using this combo?
Z

chrisw12

Yes I'm using that exact combo and no problems at all using trainingpeaks?? downloader to convert the .fit file to a wko file.

I suppose this is the only major problem at the moment with the 500 in that it uses .fit as it's file format where other software as of now are not using it eg sporttracks (but there are easy workarounds.)

luckily for me and you Zipp' wko works very well.

hopper1

ultralight wrote:

Wait for the Cyclops Joule 2 PERFECT. End of January

At £359.99 :shock: ... I don't think so!

jibberjim

chrisw12 wrote:

In fairness to Garmin(again) wasn't the 705 released more as a mapping computer rather than a power measuring computer and wasn't the power measuring aspect added later?

And also many of the complaints were unreasonable, as they were complaints born out of user configuration. Smart Recording was, and still is, derided endlessly simply because WKO did not support it - but only a fool caring about accuracy on a device which can store 8000 hours of riding would be using smart recording. That was not a Garmin failing, other than in the default settings being inappropriate for power users - but power users aren't the main audience.

Zero averaging - so what? indeed many triathletes want the zero averaging behaviour (as they want to coast certain downhills etc, but want to know they're in wattage target)

The big problem is drop outs of course, now there are many and varied causes for this - From under powered CPU in the Garmin compared to everything it had to - ie all the non power related things taking away processing time. To simply a worse antenna position to get a reading. One thing to remember is that all current power head units have drop outs, so the problem is not unique to garmin.

All the head units also process the data before recording it, which is why the Qollector, or GoldenEmbed may be a good recording option (when they work...)

chrisw12 wrote:

I'm starting to sound like a garmin fanboy but the powertap is a great product and I hope that the joule is a success as I'd hate to see cycleops take a hit on this.

Over-priced, over-complicated, but lacking in features. I know some people don't need a map to go with there Power logs, but it's the only way I can associate efforts in the log with the point in the race where they occured. For me a GPS is essential.

Mind you I might just extend GoldenEmbed to have a screen, and then I can just moan about my own head unit endlessly.

hopper1

Even with a few 'teething' problems, I'm still finding this offer hard to pass by... :roll:

EDITTED!

APIII

I think the issues discussed have been inconsistent across users, some people seem to have had a lot of problems, others very few. My experience is this: I started using the 705 with SRM cranks in August 2008. I did have some data drops initially, just a few seconds here and there, no long chunks of data missing, but a bit frustrating. I can't remember which firmware version fixed it, but it was a long time ago. I have lost 2 rides data due to corruption issues, and I've had 1 ride which had data spikes (up to 2300 watts!). I've not had any issues since update 2.9.
So is this acceptable? In 17 months, I think it's ok. Like someone said, the garmin was primarily a mapping device. The power measurement was an add-on for those like me, too cheap to fork out for the SRM head unit The non-zero averaging was never much of an issue for me, once it was imported into WKO, the data was correct.
Re: the Joule. Once these become available, they will also be subject to further firmware upgrades. From what I can gather, the intial version doesn't allow you to customise the report screen, amongst other things. I'm interested to see the user reports once it comes out though.

doyler78

Interesting how power was never a major feature now that there have been all the problems because I can distinctly remember all the fuss being made about it's ANT+ capability, both by Garmin and an eager power meter owning public.

As regards the robustness of the Garmin devices themselves in their "core" functions well I found this interesting. Wasn't looking for anything specific at all - just browsing this forum and guess what - a few gripes here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthre ... 590&page=1

Just found this funny in light of the current discussion and not a mention of power at all

APIII

It was never an important feature for me because I had the 705 long before I got the SRM. It just so happened that when I decided to get an SRM, the wireless version had just come out, and it just so happened that my 705 would work with it, saving me £700 on a SRM head unit (at least until I'd tried the garmin). I would imagine that the % of powermeter users amongst 705 owners is still pretty small. Guess that comes back to why they've launched the 500.

Zippmania

I upgraded my hub to ant + with the firmware updater from Cycleops. Do you know if this can be used on multiple occasions?
I am going to be using the WKO+ sw now due to the limited information from the Garmin connect sw. How is everyone getting on with the new version?
Zippmania

haggisinlondon

On a seperate subject on the Garmin 500, I am thinking of getting one as I need a new computer, love the GPS idea and all the data you get, but if I use it on an indoor trainer when the weather is rubbish will I get the cadence working okay and does it give average and max cadence?

hopper1

haggisinlondon wrote:

On a seperate subject on the Garmin 500, I am thinking of getting one as I need a new computer, love the GPS idea and all the data you get, but if I use it on an indoor trainer when the weather is rubbish will I get the cadence working okay and does it give average and max cadence?

Should be no problem with cadence readings, provided you've fitted the sensor!

redvision

im on verge of buying the 500. i have a 205 which i will sell, as i now need a hrm and cadence.
but im really torn between the 500 and the 705. is the 705 that much better than the 500? is it worth the extra money just for the maps?

has anyone used the 500? how good is it?
ive been reading lots of reviews about the device switching itself off and not coming back on. anyone experience this?

hopper1

redvision wrote:

im on verge of buying the 500. i have a 205 which i will sell, as i now need a hrm and cadence.
but im really torn between the 500 and the 705. is the 705 that much better than the 500? is it worth the extra money just for the maps?

has anyone used the 500? how good is it?
ive been reading lots of reviews about the device switching itself off and not coming back on. anyone experience this?

More info here

simon t

the garmin can be had for about £160 which is a fair bit cheaper!