Wigola and Lance Dynamic

frenchfighter

I read a quote from Brad yesterday saying he thinks Lance's media presence etc is amazing and aspires to be like him. He is now having media training.

In addition I hear talk that if Lance has no hope of winning the Tour then he will make sure the Whack Shack helps other teams (read: Sky) to win over Astana.

warrior4life

Well it would be nice if The shack helped the sky...
I know lance is not a liked man on here but i cant think of many better cyclists to try to be like...
Its guna be a great tour..

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

In addition I hear talk that if Lance has no hope of winning the Tour then he will make sure the Whack Shack helps other teams (read: Sky) to win over Astana.

I would expect they'd ride for Levi or Klodi.

BikingBernie

frenchfighter wrote:

I read a quote from Brad yesterday saying he thinks Lance's media presence etc is amazing and aspires to be like him. He is now having media training.

So that's why he has gone from claiming that he was transformed into a Tour also-ran into a fourth placed finisher by virtue of losing 7 kg of fat and no muscle, sorry scratch that the figures don't add up, 11 kg of fat and upper body muscle...

It might also explain why he no longer seems to be adopting his previous role as an anti-doping spokesman who said things like 'It's about time someone had some balls and told it how it was....it's my role as a role-model to expose it and not pretend it isn't happening'.

It kind of reminds me of the old proverb 'You can judge a man by the company he keeps'.

It also brings to mind the Bill Hicks piece on PR...

"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising... kill yourself. Just planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here. Really. Seriously kill yourself. You have no rationalization for what you do. You are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Okay, back to the show..."

pontarlier_pete

frenchfighter wrote:

I read a quote from Brad yesterday saying he thinks Lance's media presence etc is amazing and aspires to be like him. He is now having media training.

In addition I hear talk that if Lance has no hope of winning the Tour then he will make sure the Whack Shack helps other teams (read: Sky) to win over Astana.

Do you have a link for this? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

If true, I'm a little disappointed with what Brad seems to be turning into. Not that he'll care, he has been exuding a certain smugness recently.

Have to agree that LA is not someone to aspire to be, on any level. Futhermore, if I were Brad I wouldn't trust him at all. We can all see that LA is ruthless and can bear a grudge for any perceived slight. After Brad's "better than Lance" comments, I'm sure LA won't forget and is just lulling Brad into a sense of security so that he can shaft him when it counts. As other people have said, LA doesn't do friends, just employees. Hopefully these comments from Brad are in a similar vein - treat the snake nicely but know it will turn and bite you at some point.

Kléber

Like or not but Armstrong is a very powerful figure in cycling and it literally pays to keep him on-side. It's a bit like a British politician knowing he can't afford to upset Rupert Murdoch etc.

frenchfighter

Kléber wrote:

Like or not but Armstrong is a very powerful figure in cycling and it literally pays to keep him on-side. It's a bit like a British politician knowing he can't afford to upset Rupert Murdoch etc.

The highest earner in this sport is Contador. The best Grand Tour rider by a long margin is Contador. He does not have Lance on his side, quite the opposite.

I'm not denying he has influence, way too much in my opinion, yet it isn't necessary (although can help some people I guess) as on the road the legs can settle any verbal drivel he puts out.

frenchfighter

Pontarlier Pete wrote:

Do you have a link for this? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

It was in the Guradian...no idea if it is on the web.

calvjones

frenchfighter wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Like or not but Armstrong is a very powerful figure in cycling and it literally pays to keep him on-side. It's a bit like a British politician knowing he can't afford to upset Rupert Murdoch etc.

The highest earner in this sport is Contador. The best Grand Tour rider by a long margin is Contador. He does not have Lance on his side, quite the opposite.

AC might have the best cycling contract. I strongly suspect he's not the highest earner. LA's Giro and TdU fees alone probably trumped ACs contract.

It's all very well being able to ignore Lance when you're Bertie; less so when you're anyone else.

Kléber

Armstrong earns way more FF. His salary is big but his payments from endorsements are huge, whether sports related like Trek, Nike and Oakley or the giant companies he represents. Armstrong collected massive appearance fees for the TDU and Giro alone.

I'm guessing but I'd suggest Armstrong's wealth is probably greater than every other top-10 rider from the Tour added together.

frenchfighter

From Cycle Sport: Contador ties with Lance, then it is Valverde then Gilbert. Cannot remember the figures or other earners off the top of my head. What Lance earns anyway isn't relevant as we are talking about all other riders (in terms of it pays to have him on side).

Chip \'oyler

BikingBernie wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I read a quote from Brad yesterday saying he thinks Lance's media presence etc is amazing and aspires to be like him. He is now having media training.

So that's why he has gone from claiming that he was transformed into a Tour also-ran into a fourth placed finisher by virtue of losing 7 kg of fat and no muscle, sorry scratch that the figures don't add up, 11 kg of fat and upper body muscle...

It might also explain why he no longer seems to be adopting his previous role as an anti-doping spokesman who said things like 'It's about time someone had some balls and told it how it was....it's my role as a role-model to expose it and not pretend it isn't happening'.

It kind of reminds me of the old proverb 'You can judge a man by the company he keeps'. It also brings to mind the Bill Hicks piece on PR...

"By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising... kill yourself. Just planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here. Really. Seriously kill yourself. You have no rationalization for what you do. You are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Okay, back to the show..."

Er... PR is completely different to advertising and marketing! Hick's monologue wasn't about PR.

And if it wasn't for advertising and marketing you wouldn't be sat here talking about professional cycling :roll:

frenchfighter

Kléber wrote:

Armstrong earns way more FF. His salary is big but his payments from endorsements are huge, whether sports related like Trek, Nike and Oakley or the giant companies he represents. Armstrong collected massive appearance fees for the TDU and Giro alone.

I'm guessing but I'd suggest Armstrong's wealth is probably greater than every other top-10 rider from the Tour added together.

frenchfighter wrote:

What Lance earns anyway isn't relevant as we are talking about all other riders (in terms of it pays to have him on side).

I know he has bucket loads of cash.

dulldave

Chip \'oyler wrote:

And if it wasn't for advertising and marketing you wouldn't be sat here talking about professional cycling :roll:

I think you hit a raw nerve there

stagehopper

The quotes are in The Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 976001.ece

“All these little things start adding up,” he said. “This year, it [my training] is far more specific to one thing.” Wiggins also said that he needs to be better armed for the psychological warfare on the road. “A lot of the cyclists are really good at bull*****ing,” he said. “That’s what I’ve got to get good at.” For that reason, he is receiving media training. “Lance is amazing in the press,” Wiggins said. “He’s the guy I aspire to be.”

micron

Cavendish, Wiggins and Armstrong - the unholy trinity. Why do English speaking sportsmen have to aspire to be rude, abrasive and charmless?

Kléber

Blacklisting tricky journalists, selective disclosure and attacking your own team mates via the media? By all accounts, Armstrong comes across as a knob in the press, uncharitable to many.

I hope Wiggo manages to keep his sense of humour and fun and doesn't come across as a prat.

DaveyL

Wiggo's certainly saying nice things about Lance - especially since he's the guy who kept him off the TdF podium.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer...

calvjones

I *hope* Wiggins is saying he'd like to emulate Lance's performance with the press, nothing else, but even here it seems a pretty stupid objective, given how crap Lance is with anyone but fawning US outlets (e.g. Procycling last year).

DaveyL

It's clear that that's the context but I am not sure why he wants to do that, as you say!

BikingBernie

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Er... PR is completely different to advertising and marketing! Hick's monologue wasn't about PR.

I would hardly say that it is 'completely' different. PR plays a central role in the 'marketing' of most big organisations. From what I can see the PR, advertising and marketing men might all be 'different' in some ways, but they all crawl out from under the same stone.

I can recall a couple of years back when a PR company was trying to get cyclists to "support the promotion of cycling alongside Chris Hoy". It turned out this actually involved taking part - without payment of course - in the opening of a supermarket! Even better was the blurb on the companies site which basically said "PR is important to your company because by creating positive impressions you will be able to reduce the impact when it is time to release 'bad news' to the public".

BikingBernie

stagehopper wrote:

“Lance is amazing in the press,” Wiggins said. “He’s the guy I aspire to be.”

I had to check that out as I could hardly believe Wiggins could have really said such a thing. I am sure the 'old' Wiggins certainly wouldn't have. Naturally, Yates has a hand in all this too, which hardly bodes well. Yates added: “We know that Brad gets on well with Lance; I get on well with Lance.”

Feck me, and I used to admire Wiggins so much for refusing to sell out his principles and being willing to speak his mind in an honest way. I hate to say this but I can't help but think that he has 'woken up and smelt the coffee' (whatever that means) and, how can I put it, 'put his wife and kids first' by deciding to do whatever it takes to rake in as much cash as is possible.

disgruntledgoat

Have you notified WADA, the UCI, British Cycling, Team Sky and the British Olympic Committee of this cast iron proof of wrongdoing?

BikingBernie

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Have you notified WADA, the UCI, British Cycling, Team Sky and the British Olympic Committee of this cast iron proof of wrongdoing?

Who claimed to have 'proof'? What I said was 'I hate to say this but I can't help but think...'

Still, I am sure that the UCI at the very least are on the ball with this one. They are probably using the very same team that in responsible for protecting Armstrong, sorry 'doing what is good for cycling'...

woodford2barbican

BikingBernie wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Have you notified WADA, the UCI, British Cycling, Team Sky and the British Olympic Committee of this cast iron proof of wrongdoing?

Who claimed to have 'proof'? What I said was 'I hate to say this but I can't help but think...'

Still, I am sure that the UCI at the very least are on the ball with this one. They are probably using the very same team that in responsible for protecting Armstrong, sorry 'doing what is good for cycling'...

Only a week ago on twitter Wigggins was moaning about procycling having a photo of Ricco on its cover....so he still does speat against doping.

disgruntledgoat

BikingBernie wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Have you notified WADA, the UCI, British Cycling, Team Sky and the British Olympic Committee of this cast iron proof of wrongdoing?

Who claimed to have 'proof'? What I said was 'I hate to say this but I can't help but think...'

Still, I am sure that the UCI at the very least are on the ball with this one. They are probably using the very same team that in responsible for protecting Armstrong, sorry 'doing what is good for cycling'...

So based on a quote in a newspaper saying (as I read it) that Wiggins recognisees that he needs to bluff his condition to the outside world more effectively and recognise that other people can lose the Tour for you, you are not only prepared to come up with baseless, snide insinuations that he is a cheat but also speculate that the sports governing body are covering up for him?

I'm as cynical as the next cycling fan, but that's just low.

pedro118118

Wiggo needs to be his own man, rather than use someone else as a template for what's good and what's bad.

Perhaps concentrate and racing and winning?

Frankly, he already receives far more media attention than his road palmares deserve.

BikingBernie

disgruntledgoat wrote:

So based on a quote in a newspaper saying (as I read it) that Wiggins recognisees that he needs to bluff his condition to the outside world more effectively and recognise that other people can lose the Tour for you, you are not only prepared to come up with baseless, snide insinuations that he is a cheat but also speculate that the sports governing body are covering up for him?.

My last comment was intended to be sarcastic, which it is said is the lowest form of wit, but there are certainly plenty of reasons to believe that the UCI will do almost anything to protect Armstrong. And my 'snide insinuations' are based on more than just the contents of that article, such as the rather dubious claims that his transformation can be put down to weight loss. (And surely no-one believes Armstrong's version of this tale any more?).

The bottom line is, what on earth is someone who used to say things about doping like 'It's about time someone had some balls and told it how it was....it's my role as a role-model to expose it and not pretend it isn't happening' doing praising Armstrong of all people!

disgruntledgoat

As usual Bernie, I reckon we need to agree to disagree... To my knowledge, Wiggins has only ever sounded off about riders who tested positive. That would seem, to me, to be his reason for not saying anything about him. Secondly, Armstrong and Radioshack have the ability to make his life much more difficult than it needs to be in his big goal for the year, making nice may not be such a bad move on that front.

As for the weight loss tale, I think the key difference between Armstrong's tale and Wiggins is firstly, it is demonstratably false that Armstrong lost a great deal of weight in his transformation from a one day powerhouse to a TT and Climbing machine. Secondly, it is visually obvious that Wiggins lost the weight, the performance gain was consistent through the year and he did it at Garmin which is a team who's integrity I choose to trust.

BikingBernie

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Armstrong and Radioshack have the ability to make his life much more difficult than it needs to be in his big goal for the year, making nice may not be such a bad move on that front.

A good point, and I would also like to believe that purely pragmatic reasons lay at the bottom of all this.

Anyhow, it did cheer me a little to see, in a link on the Times page about Wiggins, that not even fishing is immune for the sort of pressures that have corrupted cycle sport.

'...sleepy old angling, beguiling old angling, the angling that draws millions of us out to our sliding rivers and wraith-wreathed lakes — is prey, at its fringes, to the same human foibles as every other human activity, football, rugby and motor racing not excluded; that, for a few, the need to make a quick buck and to “win” at all costs, overwhelms.

Ethics still exist everywhere, although they keep themselves well hidden. The word sportsmanship is still used in football, cricket and motor racing if, gradually, the term is evolving to mean what is acceptable. It would be a great pity if angling — dotty old angling, innocent old angling, increasingly commercialised old angling — were to go the same way.'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 974571.ece

le_patron

I think Wiggins is just a little fragile in some areas and need to become more rounded as he takes on more responsibility.

He’s his own man, does his own thing and previously has been able to get away with it as a trackie and TdF also-ran. He hasn’t been too bothered about winning friends and influencing people, in fact if anything he’s revelled in his independence and non-conformity.

Everything’s changed now of course, in both business and sporting terms. He’s leading a team backed by a huge multi-national corporation with an enormous budget where he is responsible for delivering value on that investment, as well as the expectations of the nation. Handling the media well is probably a requirement of Sky and seems very sensible training.

He’s also now a very serious GC contender in the biggest race on the planet. As he is not in a different league to all the other riders (a la Contador), he will have to use every trick in the book to ensure he finishes as high up the GC as possible. He got a taste of what it is like to be targeted in the latter stages of the last year’s tour and he will have recognised the importance of doing whatever it takes to have the right people on side when the going gets tough in the tour and other races.

So I am not surprised he looks up to Armstrong in this regard, let’s face it he’s been great at all that sort of thing and the last thing Wiggins and Sky will want is to incur the wrath of camp Armstrong. LA is also extremely adept when facing the media (regardless of whether you agree with what he is saying) so it is no surprise that he seeks to emulate that skill either.

Previously I wouldn’t have thought that media training and Bradley Wiggins necessarily belong in the same sentence, so it’ll be interesting to see how polished he gets.