Hope Vision single LED for trail use?

Prowler · January 2010

I'm shopping for a front light and have read some encouraging reviews on Hope Vision single LED. I like the compactness etc, but also have doubts whether there is enough light for trail use, which is why I'm asking owners of said light to comment on the subject.

The reference here is my trusty old (13 yrs.) NiteRider 10w/6v halogen headlight upgraded with a Reflectalite bulb. Is it reasonable to expect similar lighting power from a single LED unit?

The Spiderman · January 2010

Don`t bother.Buy a DX P7 instead.

Have a read of this:http://www.mtbbritain.co.uk/mountain_bike_lights_review_led.html

Saves trawling the what lights thread!

afcbian · January 2010

I have just sold my Hope Vision 1 and ordered a DX C1 for the helmet and a DX P7 for the bars.
Incl the mounts, batteries and charger the cost was approx what I got for the Hope 1.
The Hope is OK off road and just about good enough but is found wanting when you pick up speed and the trail gets technical.

Prowler · January 2010

afcbian wrote:

I have just sold my Hope Vision 1 and ordered a DX C1 for the helmet and a DX P7 for the bars.
Incl the mounts, batteries and charger the cost was approx what I got for the Hope 1.
The Hope is OK off road and just about good enough but is found wanting when you pick up speed and the trail gets technical.

Would you say then, that combined with a decent helmet mounted light it would be sufficient?

afcbian · January 2010

Certainly a helmet light would improve the Hope to a point where it would be pretty good rather than OK.
Don't get me wrong I have been using the Hope for 2 months of offroad nightriding and it has been fine. The light is more than adequate for trail riding providing it's not too technical or too fast. The spread of light could be better but a helmet light would help this as it would shine where you are looking.
However, it's £80-£90 new and the DX lights are far cheaper for more lumens.
I bought my Hope 2nd hand for £45 and got back what I paid for it.

bails87 · January 2010

Have a read of the links here http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12660193

You don't need to pay the Hope/MTB tax on lights :P

Surf-Matt · January 2010

Prowler wrote:

afcbian wrote:

I have just sold my Hope Vision 1 and ordered a DX C1 for the helmet and a DX P7 for the bars.
Incl the mounts, batteries and charger the cost was approx what I got for the Hope 1.
The Hope is OK off road and just about good enough but is found wanting when you pick up speed and the trail gets technical.

Would you say then, that combined with a decent helmet mounted light it would be sufficient?

I use a Hope 1 and a helmet mounted £10 Tesco LED torch and it's fine.

Just bought a Petzl Myo XP though so might use this instead for the lid - it's twice as bright as the torch.

Prowler · January 2010

bails87 wrote:

Have a read of the links here http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12660193

You don't need to pay the Hope/MTB tax on lights :P

The 'What lights' thread is loaded with info for sure. Hate to admit it, but after wading through twenty or so pages about lumens and steradians I gave up.

Raymie · January 2010

i have one of these, absolute awsome, i do forest trails at night and this is honestly as good, if not better than a car headlight http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOUNTAIN-BIKE-LIG ... 3ca8d9573e

Northwind · January 2010

Prowler wrote:

Would you say then, that combined with a decent helmet mounted light it would be sufficient?

With a decent helmet light, it'd be irrelevant... A P7 on your head will make the output of the Hope barely noticable.

afcbian · January 2010

Northwind wrote:

Prowler wrote:

Would you say then, that combined with a decent helmet mounted light it would be sufficient?

With a decent helmet light, it'd be irrelevant... A P7 on your head will make the output of the Hope barely noticable.

That is probably right if you use a P7 on the helmet.

Surf-Matt · January 2010

A Hope 1 takes AA batteries so if you run out, you can get some anywhere
A Hope 1 lasts up to three days on min setting, 3-4 hours on maximum
A Hope 1 is much more robust
A Hope 1 is made for cycling
A Hope 1 doesn't overheat
A Hope 1 is VERY easy to remove and stash away

If I want a more powerful light, I'll get a Hope 4, not a torch.

bails87 · January 2010

A Hope 1 takes AA batteries so if you run out, you can get some anywhere

True, but I just take enough batteries with me, so 1 in the P7, 1 in the C1 on my helmet, and 2 spare in my camelbak. If I was really in trouble I could slow down and get about 12 hours of more than adequate light from that.

A Hope 1 lasts up to three days on min setting, 3-4 hours on maximum

It would do, because it's so much less powerful. A moped will do more mpg around town than the car-that-shall-not-be-named, but that doesn't make it better than it.

A Hope 1 is much more robust

Is it?

A Hope 1 is made for cycling

True, but not necessarily a problem. Although I'll admit it's nice to have something made for the job, in which case go for the MagicShine.

A Hope 1 doesn't overheat

Nor does my P7

A Hope 1 is VERY easy to remove and stash away

So is my P7

If I want a more powerful light, I'll get a Hope 4, not a torch

Fair enough, I think we're just trying to save someone a big wodge of cash.

afcbian · January 2010

Surf-Matt wrote:

A Hope 1 takes AA batteries so if you run out, you can get some anywhere
A Hope 1 lasts up to three days on min setting, 3-4 hours on maximum
A Hope 1 is much more robust
A Hope 1 is made for cycling
A Hope 1 doesn't overheat
A Hope 1 is VERY easy to remove and stash away

If I want a more powerful light, I'll get a Hope 4, not a torch.

Easy Tiger :shock: :shock:
It's a discussion not an argument :roll:

bails87 · January 2010

Oh, it's ALWAYS an argument

Surf-Matt · January 2010

So it's fine to write off the Hope 1 in favour of some Far East cheaply made torch thing but as soon as someone suggests that actually it's a decent bit of kit then...

Usual story. :roll:

supersonic · January 2010

Oh, it's nice kit, but about 50 quid too much lol.

CraigXXL · January 2010

I looked at the Chinese P7/Cree route but after reading all the problems that people are having with delivery, reliability and wrong beam spreads I just thought sod it and went down the Exposure route. I know I have paid many times more than the import route but it works every time and if doesn't Exposure have a great support service.

supersonic · January 2010

If it is a AA torch you want, 200 lumens then you can't go wrong with this:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28546

About £9.

bails87 · January 2010

Surf-Matt wrote:

So it's fine to write off the Hope 1 in favour of some Far East cheaply made torch thing but as soon as someone suggests that actually it's a decent bit of kit then...

Usual story. :roll:

I don't see your point?

I'm sure the Hope is good at what it does. But it's less bright and more expensive than the DX options. And for a lot of users the battery life and fittings aren't a significant problem. No-one has said that the Hope isn't "a decent bit of kit", but you've implied that about the DX lights.

Surf-Matt · January 2010

Hope have first class service too. In fact it's one brand I'm actually quite loyal to.

afcbian · January 2010

Surf-Matt wrote:

So it's fine to write off the Hope 1 in favour of some Far East cheaply made torch thing but as soon as someone suggests that actually it's a decent bit of kit then...

Usual story. :roll:

Who's written it off ??
The opinion above is based on actual use by someone in the real world based on requirement ?
The Hope is a good bit of kit, no question, and for road use is superb but for offroad night use it has it's limits. FACT. Any light with only 240 lumens compared to 900 would be similar.

I can't comment on the longevity of either light as I haven't used either for long enough.

afcbian · January 2010

Surf-Matt wrote:

Hope have first class service too. In fact it's one brand I'm actually quite loyal to.

Now that I agree with

bails87 · January 2010

Again, I don't see what the point of the previous comment was. No-one has knocked the Hope, the only thing said is that £ per lumen the DX lights make sense. If you want good (English speaking) service and local warranty then the Hope might be worth buying.

But if you just want a light for blasting around for an hour or 2 in the evening then the DX makes a lot of sense. That's what I use mine for, and it's great. If I was racing or was riding right out in the middle of nowhere for hours and hours then a more "reliable" make would tempt me, but for now, it's an unnecessary expense( for me personally).

Surf-Matt · January 2010

The Magicshine is a different kettle of fish to the P7 though - they seem good. I wouldn't get one however - I'd get a Hope 4 or a basic Lupine if I needed that kind of light output (I don't).

It's not just about the lumens - it's about the reliability, quality and spread of light and very importantly, the battery type.

My Hope 1 has lasted me two years and it REALLY gets abused - jetwashed (by mistake!), knocked about, soaked, frozen solid, etc - it still looks like new when cleaned up and hasn't missed a beat. For £70 it's a bargain.

afcbian · January 2010

bails87 wrote:

but for now, it's an unnecessary expense( for me personally).

Amen to that. It's about pounds and pence right now. I too, simply don't have the spare dosh to splash out on anything else.
But lets face it, if they work, why would you want to

supersonic · January 2010

There are loads of P7 torches about though - P7 is just the name of the LED chip (which is also used in the Magicshine, NukeProof Reactor, OnOne, Lupine Tesla, Exposure Toro and Diablo) - prabably 50 or so varieties of torches. Some are unfortunately fake MTEs from certain sites, and others not so good. Best to check the reviews.

The Hope Vision 1 scored a 6 in WMB, and was marked down for low output and poor spread of light, so it is not just torches that can suffer from this. But as with bike lights, the torches vary too from big floods to tight beams. Get what you feel is best for you.

prowbiker · January 2010

Raymie wrote:

i have one of these, absolute awsome, i do forest trails at night and this is honestly as good, if not better than a car headlight http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOUNTAIN-BIKE-LIG ... 3ca8d9573e

I got one of these last week - used it twice so far and its amazing !!

Paid just under £50 for mine from DX

The quality of this light is very good, beam/spread is exactly what you need for biking etc.

Very happy with my purchase.

delcol · January 2010

i have the vision 1 i use it for commuting on my road bike i have used it once off road.. they are decent quality,, i tend to use mine on high for commuting it annoys drivers but at least i konw i can be seen. so it does its job well...

for off road duties i use a hope vision 4 i rate it.. i have a fenix tk11 torch on my helmet to.. plenty bright enough..

my brother uses a fenix tk11 and a wolfeyes led torch bars and helmet mounted they give off plenty of light for night riding..

at the end of the day who can say which is better it's all down to are you happy to pay the price for a hope light or a cheaper torch..

my torches are good and give ample light and were cheaper a lot cheaper than my hope lights,,
i don't regret spending the money on the vision 1 or 4...

Northwind · January 2010

Surf-Matt wrote:

A Hope 1 takes AA batteries so if you run out, you can get some anywhere
A Hope 1 lasts up to three days on min setting, 3-4 hours on maximum
A Hope 1 is much more robust
A Hope 1 is made for cycling
A Hope 1 doesn't overheat
A Hope 1 is VERY easy to remove and stash away

Unfortunately, it doesn't make much light. And it doesn't have a particularily useful beam either. Great build quality and aftermarket customer service can't make up for this really, not when you're paying a premium price for something that's so out of date and uncompetitive. To me, good customer service would be improving the thing.

(Longer, step by step nitpicking response follows

)

The AAs can be an advantage but are mainly an achilles heel since rechargables undervolt it and cut its output at full power. Most AAs will also rapidly lose output as they drain, having the same effect. Being able to get more if you run out is an advantage, but the better option is just to not run out, no? It's not brain surgery to take a spare battery for a torch with you. Especially a 18650 lipo, since they weigh very little.

Of course, it's perfectly possible to buy XP-G and P7 torches with AAs and even AAAs. Just that very few people do, as given the option it makes more sense to get a more up to date battery type.

The 3 day low power option is just plain odd, it's completely useless in a bike light as it makes so little light, and lasts longer than it needs to. It's actually exactly the sort of annoying feature you'd expect to get in a cheap torch.

Robustness and construction... Why do you think there's a robustness issue? You can choose torches from a number of sources, Fenix and others are very well made and extremely durable.

My own P7s are cheaper, and only decently made but they still work fine. No reliability problems whatsoever after a lot of use... And no durability issues either, and mine have taken a beating. I did break a lens in one by dropping it about 30, 35 feet straight down a stone stairwell but then you'd not want to drop the Hope like that either- and it was easily fixed (spares are available) They don't overheat either, I stress tested my replacement lens and ran one with no airflow from full to discharged on max power and it got hot, but didn't overheat. That's a harsher test than they'll ever get in use.

With a QR fitted (cost £2, took 5 minutes) it's exactly as easy to remove as the Hope, and actually easier to stash as it's smaller and lighter.

Either one of my P7 torches- either one of which cost less than a Hope 1- can be set to low power, at which setting they last longer and make more light, and have a wider and more useful beam than the Hope 1 can manage at full power, even with top quality fresh batteries- and they retain that performance for most of their burn time, unlike the Hope. They also have the option of throwing 3 times as much light on full power (though only for an hour before a battery change).

All in all, you've given a list of advantages which are without a single exception either not advantages at all, or areas where the Hope actually loses out to a cheaper torch.

And before you say it, yes, I've ridden with a Hope 1. And a Hope 2 and a Hope 4. The 4's the only one I'd consider owning, but it's still too expensive (and very optimistic in its output claims, which isn't exactly great customer service). The 1 I'd consider as a commuting light if it cost £20

Surf-Matt · January 2010

I use very decent AAs and have a decent charger that helps them last longer - both help.

I'm waiting for the market to sort itself out and will then get something better but for now the Hope 1 is a decent bit of kit and plenty bright enough for me. And about 10x brighter than Cateyes supposed "MTB" lights that cost similar money.

Hope Vision single LED for trail use?

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