Hog Hill Winter Series
Comments
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You have to take peoples personal circumstances into account here. Maybe some are quiet happy with racing an early season.
It works for me. I run my own business and the nature of it means I have a lot more available time in winter and spring...it will be a lot harder for me to find time and free weekends mid-summer.0 -
Yep, my plans are racing in Spring, ease off through June/July and race again Aug/Sept as it fits my other committments better.0
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oldwelshman wrote:If you get higher license this time of year it can have 2 problems.
1) You may get higher category then really struggle to stay in the higher cat race from the beginning, and it can get worse as the more experienced riders start racing.
I'm assuming you've not raced the winter series at Hillingdon etc. As the races are not easy, there are certainly no easy points, no-one getting to 2nd cat on the back of these races is going to be rubbish. Certainly they're going to be people who do well in short, flat circuit races rather than longer, hillier, road races but that's going to apply if they move up racing the shorter crits in the summer months too.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Oldwelshman, I think you've definitely got an point. Everyone has got there reasons for racing in the winter/summer, whether its because like 'Si C' has mentioned, its fits in with like work/life, or you may just love racing so much that you want to race all year. The Hillingdon series certainly has a great following, which has taken a few years to get to that stage and now is very popular and has a lot of publicity for its appeal too, i'd never seen the car park as full as it was on Saturday.
I do think that the points situation with winter races being greater or equal to that of summer races does also attract those who do the called 'points chasing', and it IS easier to get points in winter 'FACT'
I know of riders who have ridden the Nab B Hillingdon (30points max) races every week (whilst Hog Hill was only offering a regc+ event, 10 points max), only to go back to riding Hog Hill every week once the y started promoting Nat B points again. This is with the goal of getting an early season points boost to gain a 1st cat by the end of 2010. Each to their own, and the system is there to be taken advantage of, if that is what you want to do.
The Hillingdon winter series is great for new racers, as it gives them a chance to race a 3/4 every week, which you can't do in the summer, as the Tuesday races are E123 & 4. This gives a lot more riders a chance of success, and teams, with the Dulwich using great teamwork to salvage an overall victory.0 -
Yes the winter racing is great for some people like above who have difficulty racing mid summer, also for beginners as long as you dont progress to quick to get caught out soon
As for racing all year well there will definately be dips on performance, and do it yeat in year out you will be in trouble Thu guys who take a break in summer and start again August will be fine, but you cannot perform at optimum level all year, its physically impossible.
I don't ride the winter series for couple of reasons, being older means I feel the cold more I don't like getting my bike dirty ! and my targets are for July and October so for me personaly it is too ear;y for intensive stuff, I am trying (not very well with this weather) just to get base miles in for a couple of months and maybe race from May.
I remembr the time there were no races before May
The races definately get harder as it get nearer the traditional season as people are ramping up for bigger races and events and sort of use the circuits as training.
While not everyone does not try to use these races to get early points, lots do, I know many who do, even 1st cat riders.
There is not a huge amount of difference between a 2nd and 1st cat rider, it is mostl;y due to number of races entered to maintain enough points to keep a 1st, also there are riders who go fo events classed as Natinal B to get higher points.
I am probably old fashioned in that I race and not worry about points, if I am fit, I will get points and move up and will be fit enough to have a go, if I am not fit, I won't I also race lvrc where ther are no points or licences, just races.
Strange thing is, if I do well in my targetted track events this year it is possible to get a 2nd cat in a couple of track events, even worse if I chose to do grass track it is guarenteed as they generally only get 6 or 10 entries with bucket loads of points awarded for a few events through the day
Forget the points just give bigger prize money, that makes the best races 0 -
I've never raced, but am tempted to start - not to chase points, but so I can get an idea what it's all about for when I'm fitter in the summer. I'm posting on this thread as it's where the "don't race carbon bikes in winter" comment came from.
I have a winter bike, alu, mudguards, lights etc..... the lights come off easy enough, but I don't fancy taking the mudguards off just to race. I also have a carbon bike that's a summer bike, with a view to it becoming a race bike.
I've only been to watch summer races, where everything is pretty much carbon, and definitely no mudguards! I'm guessing for obvious reasons that no one races with mudguards in the winter too?
So I'd probably end up riding the carbon bike.0 -
I presume you are kind of defending me here, Jim. Well I guess we will see how I get on after my layoff. And yes, I realise its a long season.jibberjim wrote:oldwelshman wrote:If you get higher license this time of year it can have 2 problems.
1) You may get higher category then really struggle to stay in the higher cat race from the beginning, and it can get worse as the more experienced riders start racing.
I'm assuming you've not raced the winter series at Hillingdon etc. As the races are not easy, there are certainly no easy points, no-one getting to 2nd cat on the back of these races is going to be rubbish. Certainly they're going to be people who do well in short, flat circuit races rather than longer, hillier, road races but that's going to apply if they move up racing the shorter crits in the summer months too.0 -
felgen wrote:I presume you are kind of defending me here, Jim. Well I guess we will see how I get on after my layoff. And yes, I realise its a long season.
Nah, we all know you're just a big sprinter who got a few wins 'cos of the superior team you had behind you and are destined to fail spectacularly come the road season
Nah, Hillingdon just wasn't easy winter points...Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
But what about the race where I soloed to 3rd place? Ah no wait - it was my team blocking the packjibberjim wrote:felgen wrote:I presume you are kind of defending me here, Jim. Well I guess we will see how I get on after my layoff. And yes, I realise its a long season.
Nah, we all know you're just a big sprinter who got a few wins 'cos of the superior team you had behind you and are destined to fail spectacularly come the road season
Nah, Hillingdon just wasn't easy winter points...
And I am not so big any more.. lost 5 kg as I had no appetite... 0 -
hammerite wrote:I've never raced, but am tempted to start - not to chase points, but so I can get an idea what it's all about for when I'm fitter in the summer. I'm posting on this thread as it's where the "don't race carbon bikes in winter" comment came from.
I have a winter bike, alu, mudguards, lights etc..... the lights come off easy enough, but I don't fancy taking the mudguards off just to race. I also have a carbon bike that's a summer bike, with a view to it becoming a race bike.
I've only been to watch summer races, where everything is pretty much carbon, and definitely no mudguards! I'm guessing for obvious reasons that no one races with mudguards in the winter too?
So I'd probably end up riding the carbon bike.
Yes - nobody races with mudguards, lights etc.0 -
Thanks Gatto.... So I take it some people may have winter race bikes, as well as winter training bikes, and summer race bikes?0
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Unlikely - no reason not to use your normal race bikehammerite wrote:Thanks Gatto.... So I take it some people may have winter race bikes, as well as winter training bikes, and summer race bikes?0 -
Bronzie wrote:
Unlikely - no reason not to use your normal race bikehammerite wrote:Thanks Gatto.... So I take it some people may have winter race bikes, as well as winter training bikes, and summer race bikes?
That was going by the "don't race a carbon bike" comments on the previous page Bronzie. I only have a winter bike or a carbon "best" bike which may become a race bike when I eventually manage to do a race 0 -
Crashes happen in races............fact. Wet/damp conditions may make things a bit more dodgy, but there are plenty of crashes in dry summer races. If you don't want to risk your best bike, it's understandable to perhaps race on an old frame, but in my experience it's pretty rare that people actually do.hammerite wrote:That was going by the "don't race a carbon bike" comments on the previous page Bronzie. I only have a winter bike or a carbon "best" bike which may become a race bike when I eventually manage to do a race0 -
Anyone doing the San Fairy Ann crits at Hog Hill on Saturday? I'm planning to, but the forecast is rain, rain, rain, rain and rain for the rest of this week and for Saturday which isn't that enticing.0
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gattocattivo wrote:Anyone doing the San Fairy Ann crits at Hog Hill on Saturday? I'm planning to, but the forecast is rain, rain, rain, rain and rain for the rest of this week and for Saturday which isn't that enticing.
Sounds a good excuse to get out of the house for a few hours. 0 -
Si C wrote:gattocattivo wrote:Anyone doing the San Fairy Ann crits at Hog Hill on Saturday? I'm planning to, but the forecast is rain, rain, rain, rain and rain for the rest of this week and for Saturday which isn't that enticing.
Sounds a good excuse to get out of the house for a few hours.
....although I don't fancy gettiing drenched and blown off the track 0 -
Sunday looks to be worse. I would have been doing them, as they are my club crits, but I have a BC coaching course, so won't be able to do the first one at least.0
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Nothing like a Crit to keep you warm in the rain though Si C
and Hog Hill isn't too crowded so you shouldn't have to worry about getting taken out by another rider.
Personally I need base miles so I'll be somewhere in Kent getting cold, miserable and wondering what the hell I was thinking... Can't wait :!:0 -
I quite enjoyed it today (San Fairy Ann Spring Crits, 4th Cat). We went clockwise and there were some muddy puddles at the bottom of the 'Berg, so I made sure I was first down the hill on the first lap as I was a bit worried that someone would crash there. I was still leading on the straight bit of the lower circuit, but had no intention of staying at the front(!), so kept looking round for someone to come through. Suddenly someone attacked on the right (probably only a minute into the race) and as people came past I started to fall back through the bunch.
It got really strung out really quickly and broke to pieces within a couple of laps. There was a small leading group and a bigger chasing group (maybe 7 or 8 riders?) and then the rest of us blasted into ones and twos. I managed to chase down a few individual riders ahead of me, but they went backwards once I caught them so I didn't manage to get a proper chase organised, and the chasing group slowly disappeared from sight.
Eventually I managed to team up with a guy from London Phoenix and we worked together. After a few laps we caught up with one of his team mates and worked as a three. The leading group of four lapped us after 36 minutes, but we never saw the chasing group, and meanwhile we were lapping stragglers, so it must have been tricky for the commisaires to work out who was where.
On the last lap we caught a group of riders (who I think we were lapping) at the bottom of the hill and one of Phoenix blokes charged past them on the right. So I gave it everything I had left and attacked as hard as I could and managed to drop everyone and solo to the finish. Not really worth the effort: it probably meant I finished 16th instead of 18th (or something, haven't seen the results yet), but it made me feel good!0 -
gattocattivo wrote:So I gave it everything I had left and attacked as hard as I could and managed to drop everyone and solo to the finish. Not really worth the effort: it probably meant I finished 16th instead of 18th (or something, haven't seen the results yet), but it made me feel good!
No point sprinting for 16th instead of 18th when you're in the middle of a bunch - that's just silly dangerous. When there's just 3 of you, it's always worth sprinting - it's the only way to practice - well done!Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
It was a good training ride for me yesterday...no more than that.
More miles, less pies.0 -
gattocattivo wrote:The leading group of four lapped us after 36 minutes, but we never saw the chasing group, and meanwhile we were lapping stragglers, so it must have been tricky for the commisaires to work out who was where.
Just seen the official results and they've only done the top ten, which is a bit annoying. I don't know if that's because they couldn't work out who was where beyond the front two groups (which were eleven riders) seeing as everyone else had been lapped. It makes this:gattocattivo wrote:On the last lap we caught a group of riders (who I think we were lapping) at the bottom of the hill and one of Phoenix blokes charged past them on the right. So I gave it everything I had left and attacked as hard as I could and managed to drop everyone and solo to the finish. Not really worth the effort: it probably meant I finished 16th instead of 18th (or something, haven't seen the results yet), but it made me feel good!
...seem even more pointless.
There's a load of photos on the London Cyclesport website. Here's me lurking with the two Phoenixes with one lap to go:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/londoncyclesport/4397295893/sizes/m/in/set-72157623532085670/
And here's the guy in blue (who made the move on the very first lap) celebrating just that bit too soon and getting beaten by about a centimetre right on the line:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/londoncyclesport/4397296131/sizes/o/in/set-72157623532085670/0 -
not at all, don't be so harsh on yourself; always sprint when its safe, the practice may come in very handy one daygattocattivo wrote:
...seem even more pointless. ...iIs only march and all this experience will serve you well when you get the chance to show some legs come the summer! ...one of the most frustrating things about being dropped from a group is knowing that if you could've dug in a for a few more seconds the group frustratingly, more than not, settles down to a pace which you could've managed. [its easier to anticipate and respond to those match burning efforts when you're a few places back - and better yet, other wheel can pull you along]
As I'm sure you know its always worth staying in the front third of the pack but never on the front unless you've got a team plan, its training or you're helping drive a breakaway. Re not being on the the top ten in a chipper race don't worry about it. Its another incentive to get fitter and to be more tactically aware. I look forward to hearing how you progress in the coming months. Chapeau 0 -
Thanks for the link to the pictures Mr Gatto...some of me blowing like a steam train in there
One thing I noticed that helped split the field so quickly was that a lot of riders were nervous to attack the decent in those wet conditions.
Not sure how others feel, but the hill clockwise feels harder to me.0 -
Thanks for the encouragement, Toks.Si C wrote:One thing I noticed that helped split the field so quickly was that a lot of riders were nervous to attack the decent in those wet conditions.Not sure how others feel, but the hill clockwise feels harder to me.
Do you mean going down or coming up? Going up, I reckon it's harder anti-clockwise - it seems to be a bit steeper. Coming down, it can be a bit hairy in the wet going clockwise with the two bends on the descent.0
