hypocricy from the government.

rake

hes well shot. good job. :arrow:

andy162

Kerry Katona is bi polar. I'd throw a few bob in to help pay for a ticket to China.

" here Kerry, you just carry my case & I'll make you a singing star in China"

" sure Mister, I'll do it!"

Make good telly would that. If it did really well her fella could splash out on a new Aston.

Le Commentateur

The Chinese have little sympathy for westerners bringing drugs into the country. They remember that their country was forced by the imperial nations, led by Britain, to import opium in the 19th century in order to create a demand for the stuff among the general population that the trading nations could then exploit. Nowadays it's Columbian cartels we blame for this kind of activity, forgetting our own sinister involvement in the drugs trade not so long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Chip \'oyler

Le Commentateur wrote:

The Chinese have little sympathy for westerners bringing drugs into the country. They remember that their country was forced by the imperial nations, led by Britain, to import opium in the 19th century in order to create a demand for the stuff among the general population that the trading nations could then exploit. Nowadays it's Columbian cartels we blame for this kind of activity, forgetting our own sinister involvement in the drugs trade not so long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Well said.

Frank the tank

whyamihere wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

McKinnon, on the other hand, is not facing the death sentence.

No, but he shouldn't be facing punishment at all.

If anything, he should be given a job with a ludicrously huge salary.

I agree Mckinnon should be thanked for pointing out the weaknesses of the system, as well it was him and not some Al Queda numpty, yes.

As for the drug smuggler personally I've no problem ALL drug smugglers should be put to death as should all drug (Illegal ones that is) users, wherever they are in the world.

The OP was just to point out "double standards" suprise,suprise of the British govenment. I don't think there has been a lot of dis-agreement about that point on here.

Chip \'oyler

Frank the tank wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

McKinnon, on the other hand, is not facing the death sentence.

No, but he shouldn't be facing punishment at all.

If anything, he should be given a job with a ludicrously huge salary.

I agree Mckinnon should be thanked for pointing out the weaknesses of the system, as well it was him and not some Al Queda numpty, yes.

As for the drug smuggler personally I've no problem ALL drug smugglers should be put to death as should all drug (Illegal ones that is) users, wherever they are in the world.

The OP was just to point out "double standards" suprise,suprise of the British govenment. I don't think there has been a lot of dis-agreement about that point on here.

Yet again another sweeping statement on an internet forum!

So in your world, my wife who suffers from Multiple Sclerosis, and uses cannabis as pain relief, would be sentenced to death?

Mind you with the suffering she has to go through it wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose

finchy

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

whyamihere wrote:

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

McKinnon, on the other hand, is not facing the death sentence.

No, but he shouldn't be facing punishment at all.

If anything, he should be given a job with a ludicrously huge salary.

I agree Mckinnon should be thanked for pointing out the weaknesses of the system, as well it was him and not some Al Queda numpty, yes.

As for the drug smuggler personally I've no problem ALL drug smugglers should be put to death as should all drug (Illegal ones that is) users, wherever they are in the world.

The OP was just to point out "double standards" suprise,suprise of the British govenment. I don't think there has been a lot of dis-agreement about that point on here.

Yet again another sweeping statement on an internet forum!

So in your world, my wife who suffers from Multiple Sclerosis, and uses cannabis as pain relief, would be sentenced to death?

Mind you with the suffering she has to go through it wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose

I used to have a girlfriend who suffers MS, and although she never got bad enough to need cannabis (she's French, and the French government pay for proper medical treatment unlike the British), I would have grown it myself for her if she had needed it. Guess I'll be joining her on death row.

Frank the tank

Yes, a bit of a sweeping statement.

Is there NO OTHER drugs/medication your loved one could take to alleviate her pain?

I'm a believer in alternate medication I wouldn't condone the use of illegal drugs.

I must admit Cannibis would not be the top of my list of drugs to erradicate from use within our society but eventually not withstanding a change in medical opinion and the law it would eventually have to be (weeded) out.

0scar

Frank the tank wrote:

ALL drug smugglers should be put to death as should all drug (Illegal ones that is) users, wherever they are in the world.

The 2005/06 British Crime Survey estimates that almost 35% of Britons aged 16 - 59 have used illegal drugs. People such as Barrack Obama, David Cameron and Richard Branson have admitted use. Do we not need that third of society?

Frank the tank

Can certainly do without the criminal element in society. If you're unfotunate enough to be burgled or have you're bike nicked the chances are there will be a connection to illegal drugs somewhere down the line.

But hey-ho, perhaps you're more tollerant of scumbags than I am.

As for statistics, I dare say in the 1970's drink driving was illegal but for whatever reason not seen as particularly unacceptible and the majority of drivers did it, don't make it right though.

Jez mon

Frank the tank wrote:

Can certainly do without the criminal element in society. If you're unfotunate enough to be burgled or have you're bike nicked the chances are there will be a connection to illegal drugs somewhere down the line.

But hey-ho, perhaps you're more tollerant of scumbags than I am.

As for statistics, I dare say in the 1970's drink driving was illegal but for whatever reason not seen as particularly unacceptible and the majority of drivers did it, don't make it right though.

Which came first the criminal element or the drugs. Getting rid of the drug users and dealers wouldn't put an end to the criminal element of society, it would just get rid of quite a bit of our society.

shouldbeinbed

Jez mon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Can certainly do without the criminal element in society. If you're unfotunate enough to be burgled or have you're bike nicked the chances are there will be a connection to illegal drugs somewhere down the line.

But hey-ho, perhaps you're more tollerant of scumbags than I am.

As for statistics, I dare say in the 1970's drink driving was illegal but for whatever reason not seen as particularly unacceptible and the majority of drivers did it, don't make it right though.

Which came first the criminal element or the drugs. Getting rid of the drug users and dealers wouldn't put an end to the criminal element of society, it would just get rid of quite a bit of our society.

Hmm I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yes there will always be a criminal element in society, habitual thieves, manipulators, violent thugs, sexual predators - sadly its human nature some people are just like that in the same way some pople are selflessly good or philanthropic.

however an awful lot of run of the mill criminality, vehicle crime, burglary, street robbery, prostitution, gangsterism is entirely dependent on drugs, either addicts unable to feed their need through legitimate means or the more 'natural' criminal exploiting these users for personal profit.

remove drugs and you will remove a vast swathe of people who are criminals by necessity rather than criminals by choice.

On topic though surprise surprise hypocrisy from the British Government but no doubt they'd argue America is far more judicially advanced and civilised in its treatment of criminals than China is, just ask the Guantanamo detainees.

Frank the tank

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Can certainly do without the criminal element in society. If you're unfotunate enough to be burgled or have you're bike nicked the chances are there will be a connection to illegal drugs somewhere down the line.

But hey-ho, perhaps you're more tollerant of scumbags than I am.

As for statistics, I dare say in the 1970's drink driving was illegal but for whatever reason not seen as particularly unacceptible and the majority of drivers did it, don't make it right though.

Which came first the criminal element or the drugs. Getting rid of the drug users and dealers wouldn't put an end to the criminal element of society, it would just get rid of quite a bit of our society.

Hmm I'm not sure what you're saying here. Yes there will always be a criminal element in society, habitual thieves, manipulators, violent thugs, sexual predators - sadly its human nature some people are just like that in the same way some pople are selflessly good or philanthropic.

however an awful lot of run of the mill criminality, vehicle crime, burglary, street robbery, prostitution, gangsterism is entirely dependent on drugs, either addicts unable to feed their need through legitimate means or the more 'natural' criminal exploiting these users for personal profit.

remove drugs and you will remove a vast swathe of people who are criminals by necessity rather than criminals by choice.

On topic though surprise surprise hypocrisy from the British Government but no doubt they'd argue America is far more judicially advanced and civilised in its treatment of criminals than China is, just ask the Guantanamo detainees.

Totally agree with that post.

finchy

Frank the tank wrote:

Yes, a bit of a sweeping statement.

Is there NO OTHER drugs/medication your loved one could take to alleviate her pain?

I'm a believer in alternate medication I wouldn't condone the use of illegal drugs.

I must admit Cannibis would not be the top of my list of drugs to erradicate from use within our society but eventually not withstanding a change in medical opinion and the law it would eventually have to be (weeded) out.

There is a medicine called beta-interferon which is used to treat multiple scerlosis. Unfortunately it's heavily rationed in the UK, and MS sufferers are subject to a "postcode lottery". After that cannabis is probably the best pain relief. If someone with MS reached for painkillers everytime they were in pain (which can happen several times a day), then I doubt their system would hold up for much longer than a few years. There is a limit to how much medicine the human body can take.

I hope that neither you nor any of your loved ones ever suffer from this nasty condition, but if you did, I can 100% guarantee that you would change your mind about the morality of using illegal drugs to treat it.

Frank the tank

But Cannabis itself has side effects, so is it not a case as being as bad burned as scalded?

finchy

Frank the tank wrote:

But Cannabis itself has side effects, so is it not a case as being as bad burned as scalded?

Not half as bad as taking too much medicine can be. My Mum was in hospital a few years ago and the woman in the bed next to her had a collapsed stomach from too many painkillers.

alfablue

Frank the tank wrote:

But Cannabis itself has side effects, so is it not a case as being as bad burned as scalded?

I would presume that those people suffering with severe degenerative diseases would be better placed to make these judgements. If you were seriously ill I would expect you to try everything to alleviate your condition. The main side effect of concern is the link with psychosis particularly in young people who have some vulnerability, though this link is still the subject of debate. I am not sure that the small risk of psychoses is of much concern to someone suffering with MS. I think it is rather sad to moralise about such a person using illegal drugs in these circumstances. A lot of people would favour turning a benevolent blind eye. Yes, the rules may be being broken, but who is being hurt? There are sources of cannabis that do not line the pockets of drug barons.

Chip \'oyler

johnfinch wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Yes, a bit of a sweeping statement.

Is there NO OTHER drugs/medication your loved one could take to alleviate her pain?

I'm a believer in alternate medication I wouldn't condone the use of illegal drugs.

I must admit Cannibis would not be the top of my list of drugs to erradicate from use within our society but eventually not withstanding a change in medical opinion and the law it would eventually have to be (weeded) out.

There is a medicine called beta-interferon which is used to treat multiple scerlosis. Unfortunately it's heavily rationed in the UK, and MS sufferers are subject to a "postcode lottery". After that cannabis is probably the best pain relief. If someone with MS reached for painkillers everytime they were in pain (which can happen several times a day), then I doubt their system would hold up for much longer than a few years. There is a limit to how much medicine the human body can take.

I hope that neither you nor any of your loved ones ever suffer from this nasty condition, but if you did, I can 100% guarantee that you would change your mind about the morality of using illegal drugs to treat it.

John - Beta Interferon is a disease modifying drug - not a pain alleviator. It's used to stop relapses or make the relapses milder in MS people who suffer with the Relapse-Remmiting version of the illness.

Unfortunately by the time Beta Interferon (and other DMDs) was on the market my wife's MS had turned into Secondary Progressive. However you are right about the postcode lottery. TBH - since my wife was diagnosed 11 years ago she's more or less been left to her own devices. An absolute sham.

finchy

Chip \'oyler wrote:

John - Beta Interferon is a disease modifying drug - not a pain alleviator. It's used to stop relapses or make the relapses milder in MS people who suffer with the Relapse-Remmiting version of the illness.

Unfortunately by the time Beta Interferon (and other DMDs) was on the market my wife's MS had turned into Secondary Progressive. However you are right about the postcode lottery. TBH - since my wife was diagnosed 11 years ago she's more or less been left to her own devices. An absolute sham.

BI isn't a pain alleviator, but it can stop or delay the progression of MS, therefore effectively acting to prevent the disease becoming more serious and painful with time. Probably pain relief was the wrong phrase for me to use.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife, it is an absolute disgrace that people with conditions such as MS, which occur through no fault of the patient whatsoever, can go without the necessary treatment. Here's hoping for a more effective treatment some time soon.

rake

dont forget china has 100 times our population. its the only way they can keep a lid on drugdealering.

alfablue

rake wrote:

dont forget china has 100 times our population. its the only way they can keep a lid on drugdealering.

Jeez, you people are sensationally intelligent! So, the only way is to execute people with severe mental disorders without proper judicial process or psychiatric examination. I am just thankful that I am more civilised than you or the Chinese, and that thankfully your "sort" are not in a position of power in this country. In the scheme of things I would have thought the Chinese state itself was the overwhelming menace that their society needed protection from (political prisoners, policies condoning infanticide, human rights in Tibet, threat to Taiwan, support for North Korea to name just a few slight issues!). I can't quite decide if some contributors to this thread with such extreme barbaric views are evil, hateful, ignorant, or a combination of all three.

Chip \'oyler

johnfinch wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

John - Beta Interferon is a disease modifying drug - not a pain alleviator. It's used to stop relapses or make the relapses milder in MS people who suffer with the Relapse-Remmiting version of the illness.

Unfortunately by the time Beta Interferon (and other DMDs) was on the market my wife's MS had turned into Secondary Progressive. However you are right about the postcode lottery. TBH - since my wife was diagnosed 11 years ago she's more or less been left to her own devices. An absolute sham.

BI isn't a pain alleviator, but it can stop or delay the progression of MS, therefore effectively acting to prevent the disease becoming more serious and painful with time. Probably pain relief was the wrong phrase for me to use.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife, it is an absolute disgrace that people with conditions such as MS, which occur through no fault of the patient whatsoever, can go without the necessary treatment. Here's hoping for a more effective treatment some time soon.

Thanks John I'm hoping too

rake

im not any of them three. just tired of scumbags making life a misery for reasonable people.6 months probation isnt going to stop them.

alfablue

rake wrote:

im not any of them three. just tired of scumbags making life a misery for reasonable people.6 months probation isnt going to stop them.

so execute people who have severe mental disorders without judicial process; Hitler advocated that sort of approach, so I presume you are happy to be aligned with his views. Nice bloke!

rake

they execute 100's each year, alleged mental state didnt come into it. he got the same treatment as the rest. lots of people have depression but it doesnt exempt them from the law. its straight forward. dont smuggle drugs and you wont get done. its got nowt to do with hitler.

markwalker

alfablue wrote:

rake wrote:

im not any of them three. just tired of scumbags making life a misery for reasonable people.6 months probation isnt going to stop them.

so execute people who have severe mental disorders without judicial process; Hitler advocated that sort of approach, so I presume you are happy to be aligned with his views. Nice bloke!

Alfa, people have different views. non are right or wrong in themselves. theyre just different. Calling names is hardly likely to convince others of your opinion

markwalker

Chip \'oyler wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

John - Beta Interferon is a disease modifying drug - not a pain alleviator. It's used to stop relapses or make the relapses milder in MS people who suffer with the Relapse-Remmiting version of the illness.

Unfortunately by the time Beta Interferon (and other DMDs) was on the market my wife's MS had turned into Secondary Progressive. However you are right about the postcode lottery. TBH - since my wife was diagnosed 11 years ago she's more or less been left to her own devices. An absolute sham.

BI isn't a pain alleviator, but it can stop or delay the progression of MS, therefore effectively acting to prevent the disease becoming more serious and painful with time. Probably pain relief was the wrong phrase for me to use.

I'm sorry to hear about your wife, it is an absolute disgrace that people with conditions such as MS, which occur through no fault of the patient whatsoever, can go without the necessary treatment. Here's hoping for a more effective treatment some time soon.

Thanks John I'm hoping too

Good luck Chip and Missus

alfablue

rake wrote:

they execute 100's each year, alleged mental state didnt come into it. he got the same treatment as the rest. lots of people have depression but it doesnt exempt them from the law. its straight forward. dont smuggle drugs and you wont get done. its got nowt to do with hitler.

If you are not of sound mind because of severe mental disorder then your actions are not those of a sane person. What you are saying is that people who commit crimes because of their illness should be executed in the same way as people who are of sound mind and make a rational choice. What you are saying is ignorant and barbaric, and belongs to the 13th century. You show that you have zero understanding of the nature of mental disorders, and therefore you have zero ability to make informed comment.

markwalker

alfablue wrote:

rake wrote:

they execute 100's each year, alleged mental state didnt come into it. he got the same treatment as the rest. lots of people have depression but it doesnt exempt them from the law. its straight forward. dont smuggle drugs and you wont get done. its got nowt to do with hitler.

If you are not of sound mind because of severe mental disorder then your actions are not those of a sane person. What you are saying is that people who commit crimes because of their illness should be executed in the same way. What you are saying is ignorant and barbaric, and belongs to the 13th century. You show that you have zero understanding of the nature of mental disorders, and therefore you have zero ability to make informed comment.

Another ill informed statement Alfa. FFS stop calling names get a more convincing argument

alfablue

markwalker wrote:

alfablue wrote:

rake wrote:

they execute 100's each year, alleged mental state didnt come into it. he got the same treatment as the rest. lots of people have depression but it doesnt exempt them from the law. its straight forward. dont smuggle drugs and you wont get done. its got nowt to do with hitler.

If you are not of sound mind because of severe mental disorder then your actions are not those of a sane person. What you are saying is that people who commit crimes because of their illness should be executed in the same way. What you are saying is ignorant and barbaric, and belongs to the 13th century. You show that you have zero understanding of the nature of mental disorders, and therefore you have zero ability to make informed comment.

Another ill informed statement Alfa. FFS stop calling names get a more convincing argument

If you cannot grasp the basics of the issues such as the nature of mental disorder, the nature of mental capacity, plus you have no idea of morality, then no argument I can make will change your mind. Please explain in what way my statement is ill informed, rather than just making empty comments.