hypocricy from the government.

Frank the tank

Moan like chuff that the Chinese have executed a man who was supposedly mentally ill (but was deffinately carrying drugs). Whilst simultaniously preparing to extrodite a young man with mental issues to the USA to face trial over computer hacking.

Smokin Joe

You must realise that we are the only country in the world with any sort of fair justice system. Everywhere else is totally corrupt, particularly when they are trying one of Our Boys.

hopper1

Frank the tank wrote:

Moan like chuff that the Chinese have executed a man who was supposedly mentally ill (but was deffinately carrying drugs). Whilst simultaniously preparing to extrodite a young man with mental issues to the USA to face trial over computer hacking.

+1

Barrie_G

"Akmal Shaikh, 53, was put to death after losing a final appeal last week against his conviction for smuggling heroin."

"Shaikh, from Kentish Town, north London, suffered from bipolar disorder and could not have been responsible for his actions when he was arrested with 4kg of heroin."

I wonder if the government would be saying the same things if the guy had been called Smith?

4kg I don't think he could have been that mentally disturbed, some criminal group has entrusted him with a few quids worth of gear, I recon he must have been aware enough to attempt to get in out of China and into the UK

Anonymous

Barrie_G wrote:

"Akmal Shaikh, 53, was put to death after losing a final appeal last week against his conviction for smuggling heroin."

"Shaikh, from Kentish Town, north London, suffered from bipolar disorder and could not have been responsible for his actions when he was arrested with 4kg of heroin."

I wonder if the government would be saying the same things if the guy had been called Smith?

4kg I don't think he could have been that mentally disturbed, some criminal group has entrusted him with a few quids worth of gear, I recon he must have been aware enough to attempt to get in out of China and into the UK

Nice, hope you are on a jury soom. :roll:

finchy

Barrie_G wrote:

I wonder if the government would be saying the same things if the guy had been called Smith?

I'm pretty sure that they would.

hopper1

When in Rome.....

If you don't wish to subject yourself to the laws of another country, just, or not, then don't travel.

Chip \'oyler

Barrie_G wrote:

"Akmal Shaikh, 53, was put to death after losing a final appeal last week against his conviction for smuggling heroin."

"Shaikh, from Kentish Town, north London, suffered from bipolar disorder and could not have been responsible for his actions when he was arrested with 4kg of heroin."

I wonder if the government would be saying the same things if the guy had been called Smith?

4kg I don't think he could have been that mentally disturbed, some criminal group has entrusted him with a few quids worth of gear, I recon he must have been aware enough to attempt to get in out of China and into the UK

Why did he have two heart rate monitors?

rake

it should be the same penalty here.

Lagavulin

Quite a jump from a two-year suspended sentence and having to wear a tag to being machine gunned at dawn.

Forgive me here but did his defence - or the foreign office or whoever - ever account for his presence in China, or is the whole thing about his bi-polar dissorder that he shouldn't have been on the flight let alone in China with 4KG of scag?

afx237vi

Lagavulin wrote:

Quite a jump from a two-year suspended sentence and having to wear a tag to being machine gunned at dawn.

Forgive me here but did his defence - or the foreign office or whoever - ever account for his presence in China, or is the whole thing about his bi-polar dissorder that he shouldn't have been on the flight let alone in China with 4KG of scag?

Defence? Didn't his entire trial last half an hour?

I have no sympathy for drug dealers, believe me, but the lack of compassion here is shameful.

alfablue

Lagavulin wrote:

Quite a jump from a two-year suspended sentence and having to wear a tag to being machine gunned at dawn.

Forgive me here but did his defence - or the foreign office or whoever - ever account for his presence in China, or is the whole thing about his bi-polar dissorder that he shouldn't have been on the flight let alone in China with 4KG of scag?

He opted to mount his own defence (maybe another example of the grandiose ideas that may be due to his condition), and I understand that he was duped to carry a suitcase to China by people who said they would make him a music star there (an idea that he may have readily believed with his condition).

deptfordmarmoset

McKinnon, on the other hand, is not facing the death sentence.

whyamihere

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

McKinnon, on the other hand, is not facing the death sentence.

No, but he shouldn't be facing punishment at all.

If anything, he should be given a job with a ludicrously huge salary.

pastey_boy

i had a bird with bi-polar and she knew right and wrong. this filthy drugs mule got what he deserved.when a smack head smashes your nans face in for his next fix please remember your words of support for this ex human. ive got really bad hayfever and im currently planning a murder, how could they charge me when i suffer with such a cruel condition

pedylan

dmclite wrote:

Barrie_G wrote:

"Akmal Shaikh, 53, was put to death after losing a final appeal last week against his conviction for smuggling heroin."

"Shaikh, from Kentish Town, north London, suffered from bipolar disorder and could not have been responsible for his actions when he was arrested with 4kg of heroin."

I wonder if the government would be saying the same things if the guy had been called Smith?

4kg I don't think he could have been that mentally disturbed, some criminal group has entrusted him with a few quids worth of gear, I recon he must have been aware enough to attempt to get in out of China and into the UK

Nice, hope you are on a jury soom. :roll:

I've done Jury service (three times as it happens). It's compulsory under British law that irrelevant race/gender/religion views are expressed during all deliberations. It's also compulsory that there be at least one giant supposition unsupported by any evidence (eg he had 4kg so he must have come over to the drug runners as sane) that gets advanced before serious discussions can begin.

Not helpful or pretty to watch, just compulsory.

alfablue

an idiot :arrow:

pastey_boy wrote:

i had a bird with bi-polar and she knew right and wrong. this filthy drugs mule got what he deserved.when a smack head smashes your nans face in for his next fix please remember your words of support for this ex human. ive got really bad hayfever and im currently planning a murder, how could they charge me when i suffer with such a cruel condition

downfader

pastey_boy wrote:

i had a bird with bi-polar and she knew right and wrong. this filthy drugs mule got what he deserved.when a smack head smashes your nans face in for his next fix please remember your words of support for this ex human. ive got really bad hayfever and im currently planning a murder, how could they charge me when i suffer with such a cruel condition

And yoiu've just proved you have learned NOTHING from your ex. :roll:

Surely at the very least in that tiny mind of your you realise that even from your experience of allergy that there are many different levels of severity. The same applies to mental illness.

pastey_boy

the idiots are the ones crying over this sorry affair. if the man was so ill im sure he would not have been entrusted to carry a substantial amount of drugs. he got caught he paid the price. if he had made it through we would be none the wiser and the drugs would be on the street.

alfablue

pastey_boy wrote:

the idiots are the ones crying over this sorry affair. if the man was so ill im sure he would not have been entrusted to carry a substantial amount of drugs. he got caught he paid the price. if he had made it through we would be none the wiser and the drugs would be on the street.

You just show yourself up more! You claim your "bird" :roll: had bipolar disorder, but you don't seem to have the first clue about it.

pastey_boy

i dont want to get into a discussion about the torrid time i had with my mentally ill ex. i have experience of deep depression ,bi-polar and severe post natal depression but the point is he was caught and he paid the price, no amount of arguing about his mental state will change that. how many people plead insanity when caught . if i was facing a certain death penalty i would try every trick in the book to get off with it.

alfablue

pastey_boy wrote:

i dont want to get into a discussion about the torrid time i had with my mentally ill ex. i have experience of deep depression ,bi-polar and severe post natal depression but the point is he was caught and he paid the price, no amount of arguing about his mental state will change that. how many people plead insanity when caught . if i was facing a certain death penalty i would try every trick in the book to get off with it.

So your argument has changed from saying that bipolar disorder was no defence, to saying that the bipolar disorder was a fabrication . . . I see :roll:

My original statement stands!

pastey_boy

ok so your sat in a cell facing certain death, im sure some form of depression would set in.

downfader

pastey_boy wrote:

the idiots are the ones crying over this sorry affair. if the man was so ill im sure he would not have been entrusted to carry a substantial amount of drugs. he got caught he paid the price. if he had made it through we would be none the wiser and the drugs would be on the street.

FFS :roll:

I have a workmate, her son is in an institution and has severe Bi Polar. You would never know it to speak to him, he would just seem rather happy, a little eccentric. They realised he was sick when they went around to his flat and he was handing out all of his posessions to the local scallies (with a big grin on his face).

I think you need to look at the mind website. http://www.mind.org.uk/ or the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

The man had no control over his actions.

pastey_boy

so whats basically being said here is that if you suffer from severe bi-polar disorder you can commit any crime you like but face no punishment because your mentally ill and have no control of your actions ?

alfablue

pastey_boy wrote:

so whats basically being said here is that if you suffer from severe bi-polar disorder you can commit any crime you like but face no punishment because your mentally ill and have no control of your actions ?

the whole point of a "diminished responsibility" defence is that your responsibility is diminished by your mental disorder. This is simple stuff pastey!

You say you have experience of post natal depression - are you aware, for example, that some sufferers actually kill their babies? They are not evil people, they were not born killers, they were ill, during their illness they suffered psychoses which made them carry out acts that they would not have otherwise done. I guess you would have them shot.

Because we know that some mental health problems can be so severe that people lose their ability to think and act rationally, and can become a danger (more often) to themselves or (more rarely) others, we have legislation (the Mental Health Act) which allows the authorities to detain such people against their will, if necessary. We would not need such powers if the severely mentally ill were able to use good judgement during acute illness, they are not just being "silly"!

I think you have a lot to learn pastey, but lets hope this is a start. Until you gain a deeper understanding of such matters you may save yourself embarrassment by reserving your judgement of this man.

By the way, part of the outcry is because the Chinese authorities didn't even examine his mental health even though it is within their own legal code that they should do so, so it wasn't even that they rejected this claim, it was never even considered!

pastey_boy

the 3 week old baby boy i lost would bear out your statement. the man could act rational when it suited , as he made through airport checkouts etc etc. if your slightly drunk these days your not allowed to board so a man with no idea how to act in a rational manner would be stopped surely.

downfader

b*ll*cks, quoted the wrong bit. Apologies :oops:

alfablue

pastey_boy wrote:

the 3 week old baby boy i lost would bear out your statement. the man could act rational when it suited , as he made through airport checkouts etc etc. if your slightly drunk these days your not allowed to board so a man with no idea how to act in a rational manner would be stopped surely.

Sorry about your loss.

Its really not that black and white, he may have become irrational, it doesn't mean he would be acting overtly like a crazy man! I have worked with many people with hypomania, to a lay person they might appear to be fine, perhaps quite cheerful, full of energy maybe, perhaps overtalkative, perhaps very generous, maybe over familiar. If you spent a lot of time with them it would start to become exhausting (for both parties). With more experience you detect their grandiose ideas (this gentleman was apparently duped that he would be a music star in China) and other evidence of thought disorder. Some people with mania/hypomania are incredibly vulnerable because they can be exploited as they are ready to believe any fantastic story that fits in with their grandiose delusions.

you may find this informative http://www.bipolarhome.org/mania.html

pastey_boy

ive learned that many of these so called mentally ill people can manipulate situations to suit. i dont want to get into specifics but through conversations i had i know my ex knew exactly what she was doing but when it all got serious she turned it on and got the backing of professionals.

alfablue

pastey_boy wrote:

ive learned that many of these so called mentally ill people can manipulate situations to suit. i dont want to get into specifics but through conversations i had i know my ex knew exactly what she was doing but when it all got serious she turned it on and got the backing of professionals.

Well, it would be sensible not to generalise from your one experience and tar everyone else with mental health problems with the same brush, as it makes you seem inhuman and ignorant.