Armstrong conundrum

blazing_saddles

It would be much simpler, if we ban any Italians or Spanish from riding in pro races.
Then, we could do away with dope tests altogether and promote a "clean" sport to it's potential sponsors.

As for Armstrong.
He should be forgiven for any past possible doping infractions, because we all know these were a product of a French conspiracy.
Instead, the French should award him the "legion d'honneur" for single handedly rejuevenating their little race and becoming the global pin up boy, for fair play within PED free cycling.

Just trying to stay in step with some of the opinion on this thread. :roll:

Monty Dog

So it's perfectly acceptable to detract $millions from sponsors and donors to create your own personal fortune based on your own 'brand' when the circumstancial evidence demonstrates that they've been participationg in a systematic doping programme since 1994?

Of course the difficultly is that the governing body has been complicit is 'covering up' in order to protect the image of 'their' sport. There's only one way to draw a line in the sand, and that's for those who benefitted from these practises to come clean.
There's still a hardcore of cycling fans who'll stick with the sport whilst the hero-worshippers can take their delusions elsewhere

DaveyL

Blazing Saddles wrote:

It would be much simpler, if we ban any Italians or Spanish from riding in pro races.
Then, we could do away with dope tests altogether and promote a "clean" sport to it's potential sponsors.

As for Armstrong.
He should be forgiven for any past possible doping infractions, because we all know these were a product of a French conspiracy.
Instead, the French should award him the "legion d'honneur" for single handedly rejuevenating their little race and becoming the global pin up boy, for fair play within PED free cycling.

Just trying to stay in step with some of the opinion on this thread. :roll:

We can't ban all the filthy Italian dopers, can we? You'd have nowt left for your avatars.

afx237vi

Moray Gub wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

...who did LA cheat in the races? You really think the others didn't use? Do we really want that laundry washed in public? I'd prefer he wasn't caught even though have not doubt he used... but simply..on a cost benefit anaylsis it isn't worth it....he'll be retired in 12 months from road racing

So you think Wiggins is dirty, eh? Interesting.

clue ... 1999-2005

Sorry, my psychic abilities appear to be on the wane. Must get that checked.
.

Rather than getting your psychic abilities checked It would be much simpler for you if read the original post which Dave was replying to as it contained this


"If Armstrong was a doper for his 7 tour wins"

If you're responding to an OP halfway down the page it usually helps to push this ->

giner1961

Mmm i rode in France as amateur early 80's and i was offerd drugs by my team manager and other riders, my own conscience would not let me take anything, call it naivety but i was not prepeared to take drugs to achive my results and at the end of the day that's what it comes down to a persons own integrity.

:roll:

carl_p

ressac wrote:

I can't believe this childish naivety!

Unfortunately, the using of drugs is in-wrought with professional sports. Every pro athlete is using them, that's for sure. Even chess players using drugs that help them to concentrate better.
Of course Wiggins is using them, and of course Armstrong, Ulrich and everyone in the peloton uses them... Come on...

Not sure if this is a tongue in cheek comment or not, but the use of the word "allegedly" might help

ressac

giner1961 wrote:

Mmm i rode in France as amateur early 80's and i was offerd drugs by my team manager and other riders, my own conscience would not let me take anything, call it naivety but i was not prepeared to take drugs to achive my results and at the end of the day that's what it comes down to a persons own integrity.

:roll:

Maybe you are right, but i wrote about pro's...

jerry3571

OOH! This is fun!!

I think doping goes back to the first ever races in the 1800's so I can't see how riders will stop if they can get around the tests. No point in thinking that Batman will arrive and out the baddies. Not going to happen; anyone who thinks there is a Nirvana in Cycling; please leave now.

We, my dears, seem to be fixated with have a blood fest and the Anti Doping lot are doing it to stop young fool hardy riders from killing themselves; that is the reason. Not because it's not good sport and the Public feel cheated. People/riders die doping. I think these riders are nuts to put themselves in mortal danger for a little bit of the X Factor; to stand on the top spot for a newspaper headline. Insane.

The main driver for doping is that a Company sponsors a Team for a rider to win and get their Company name in the press for shifting a little stock to help profits. Cycling is a lucrative sport for Business. Win and keep clean and the rewards are great. The X Factor hype is also a powerful drug which bike riders love. Be the top guy and everyone loves you and the American Dream is yours. From Zero to Hero.

If we had the 'know how' to get a 100% accurate effective tests, the time the Doping Community would take to get around it would be very short. A fantastic amount of money and brains goes into getting around doping controls. It's it's own arms race. The Doping Agencies are always one step behind. What we have now is as good as it gets.
I have a saying; "the harder you look, the more you will find."
I know a young man who was into Rugby and he says Testosterone is widely used as well as other agents. Rugby doesn't have much of a doping problems as it chooses to look the other way. It doesn't want to know.

Answer- Lance and Bruyneel fascinate me as they get huge success without the doping problems. If Lance and Co are outed then I'd like to know what was this mechanism to which the success was brought about. Was Bruyneel's squad given special rights and who was involved?
On the other hand; I think Lance's anti cancer story is an overwhelming good thing which helps the uninformed beleive that Cancer is not always the end and it gives hope. So in that sense; I don't mind seeing Lance retire a clean man. Bruyneel though, needs looking at.

Ciao Jerry

moray_gub

Monty Dog wrote:

There's still a hardcore of cycling fans who'll stick with the sport whilst the hero-worshippers can take their delusions elsewhere

Gotta laugh at this i am better cycling fan than you routine thats gets trotted out on this forum from time to time. How arrogant to think that you are somehow more of a cycling fan than somebody else based on a like/dislike of a certain cyclist.

moray_gub

afx237vi wrote:

If you're responding to an OP halfway down the page it usually helps to push this ->

Or read the thread properly .

giner1961

Ressac
It starts at ameture level, riders do not just turn pro and start taking stuff they will already have been on stuff before they turned pro.

Monty Dog

Moray Gub wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

There's still a hardcore of cycling fans who'll stick with the sport whilst the hero-worshippers can take their delusions elsewhere

Gotta laugh at this i am better cycling fan than you routine thats gets trotted out on this forum from time to time. How arrogant to think that you are somehow more of a cycling fan than somebody else based on a like/dislike of a certain cyclist.

Ha Ha - brings to mind the Denis Healey quote: "it's like being savaged by a dead sheep!"

jerry3571

Just watched the trailer for Black Sheep film. Never watched it but it looks scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gEDUDmZkyc

-Jerry