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Fred Whitton Entry changed - its a Lottery!

24

Posts

  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    nickwill wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    DaveMoss wrote:
    when I did it a "freeloader" on the FWC went and crashed quite badly, thus endagering bona fodi riders, but worse, tied up the event first aiders and created hassle for the organising team.

    If you live on the route, no one can complain if you go to collect the sunday papers during the event. But driving to an event to ride round when your not entered very very bad (and means your very sad as well, like you don't know how to do a bike ride unless it's with hundreds of others)

    The arguments just don't stand up.

    They are public roads.

    You can't stop the public riding on public roads.

    You are right to that extent. You can't stop the public riding on public roads. However the riders conscience should stop him from taking part in a sportive that he doesn't hold a valid entry to. We've all inadvertently found ourselves sharing the roads with sportive riders on part of a sportive route. There is nothing wrong with that.
    This isn't about legal rights, it's about showing respect to others.

    circles.jpg

    ;D
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 15,853
    NapoleonD wrote:
    DaveMoss wrote:
    when I did it a "freeloader" on the FWC went and crashed quite badly, thus endagering bona fodi riders, but worse, tied up the event first aiders and created hassle for the organising team.

    If you live on the route, no one can complain if you go to collect the sunday papers during the event. But driving to an event to ride round when your not entered very very bad (and means your very sad as well, like you don't know how to do a bike ride unless it's with hundreds of others)

    The arguments just don't stand up.

    They are public roads.

    You can't stop the public riding on public roads.


    You are entitled to ride on public roads but are not entitled to any of the facilities laid on and paid for by the organisers

    That would include the event first aiders.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
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    And cures and healing wells
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    NapoleonD wrote:
    DaveMoss wrote:
    when I did it a "freeloader" on the FWC went and crashed quite badly, thus endagering bona fodi riders, but worse, tied up the event first aiders and created hassle for the organising team.

    If you live on the route, no one can complain if you go to collect the sunday papers during the event. But driving to an event to ride round when your not entered very very bad (and means your very sad as well, like you don't know how to do a bike ride unless it's with hundreds of others)

    The arguments just don't stand up.

    They are public roads.

    You can't stop the public riding on public roads.


    You are entitled to ride on public roads but are not entitled to any of the facilities laid on and paid for by the organisers

    That would include the event first aiders.

    Fully aware of that, as I said earlier I'm just playing devil's advocate. I wouldn't personally do it as I have a conscience.
  • nickwillnickwill Posts: 2,735
    NapoleonD wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    DaveMoss wrote:
    when I did it a "freeloader" on the FWC went and crashed quite badly, thus endagering bona fodi riders, but worse, tied up the event first aiders and created hassle for the organising team.

    If you live on the route, no one can complain if you go to collect the sunday papers during the event. But driving to an event to ride round when your not entered very very bad (and means your very sad as well, like you don't know how to do a bike ride unless it's with hundreds of others)

    The arguments just don't stand up.

    They are public roads.

    You can't stop the public riding on public roads.




    You are entitled to ride on public roads but are not entitled to any of the facilities laid on and paid for by the organisers

    That would include the event first aiders.

    Fully aware of that, as I said earlier I'm just playing devil's advocate. I wouldn't personally do it as I have a conscience.

    I think we agree then! :D
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    nickwill wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    DaveMoss wrote:
    when I did it a "freeloader" on the FWC went and crashed quite badly, thus endagering bona fodi riders, but worse, tied up the event first aiders and created hassle for the organising team.

    If you live on the route, no one can complain if you go to collect the sunday papers during the event. But driving to an event to ride round when your not entered very very bad (and means your very sad as well, like you don't know how to do a bike ride unless it's with hundreds of others)

    The arguments just don't stand up.

    They are public roads.

    You can't stop the public riding on public roads.




    You are entitled to ride on public roads but are not entitled to any of the facilities laid on and paid for by the organisers

    That would include the event first aiders.

    Fully aware of that, as I said earlier I'm just playing devil's advocate. I wouldn't personally do it as I have a conscience.

    I think we agree then! :D

    I deal on a daily basis with people that don't and in this case there is nothing to stop them at all from joining in...

    Other than that - There are no offences civil or criminal, you aren't putting anyone out.
  • maddog 2maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    I rode some of it last year (Whinlatter to the end) without an entry as I was helping my wife and her mate, in case they had a mechanical.

    I did feel a bit cheeky at first but then, as NapD says, it's a public road so why should I ?

    Ironically, I ended up helping quite a few other people who'd had mechanicals/punctures and helped them finish 8)

    It all comes down to what you think the entry actually buys.

    If it's just the timing and the food then you should feel okay about riding round without an entry.

    If it buys everything - atmosphere, support etc. then you're a bit cheeky I think, joining without paying.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    There are 1250 riders doing the FWC? I thought that the safe limit was 500 - it was a few years ago anyway.

    I've never ridden a sportive without paying but if the event is full I wouldn't have a problem with people tagging along - clearly these safety limits are fairly flexible and the more riders on the road the more of an event it is. So long as you aren't using the facilities laid on by the organisers I can't see who loses out.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 8,630
    RICHYBOYcp wrote:
    nickwill wrote:
    Yes they are public roads, but the ride is a private event. You are riding on the day to be part of the atmosphere and buzz created by the organisers and other riders. If that isn't the case then ride it another day. If it is the case, you should abide by the wishes of the organisers, and stay away if you don't have an entry.
    Anything over the approved numbers could cause the organisers real hassle. As far as the public is concerned, if you are riding the route with other riders, you are part of the event!

    Yes and no... all sportives have a yield... meaning not all the entrants show up on the day. Depending on the event and the weather the yield can be as low as 50%. I assume for a pricey and very popular one like the FWC, on a good sunny day the yield is probably between 80 and 90%.
    That still leaves around 100 empty spaces... which in principle can be "filled" by non payers without exceeding the limits imposed by Health and Safety regulations.

    To be honest the problem has never materialised and it's only in our minds... if an event is so succesful that entering it becomes a lottery, then organisers can expect a few "fee dodgers" to show up on the day. As long as you don't deprive other riders of their paid for refreshments, there is no reason to point a "j'accuse" finger.

    Disagree...and had this same arguement many times....basically selfish behaviour....and thats it full stop. Legal as it is, its simply using an event for your own purposes...whether you eat at the feeds or not...you are still using the events unique atmosphere....but it is true that a good few will do this...afterall a good % of people are selfish and care nothing of anything apart from themsleves?

    If people are that desperate why not get a definate entry by raising £250 for the charity....I raised £500 for the 2007 FWC and it wasnt a huge effort? but then again thats unselfish behaviour :roll:

    +1

    especially this event with its quickly growing mythos
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • I think the 4 seasons system would suit me better as I've never done a sportive i think it would be too much pressure to get fit and even more on the day. the 4 season way i can do it later in the year when i feel up to it.
  • My 2p

    The FW has traditionally been highly supported by Cumbrian riders, from its infancy up to present day. The belief has been that us Cumbrians have had the priviledge of being able to hand deliver entries to ensure that we ride. I do not see this as a problem, it is local riders who supported the fledgling event, who return the faster times and who provide the majority of the marshalling. Bear in mind that Millom is not the most accessible place, a journey from Carlisle to Millom may take as long as from Manchester.

    A lottery entry tips the balance away from local riders, personally I think this is a bad thing, leading to more renegade entries and could prove damaging to the local support for the event.

    I suspect that someone high up in tourism has cottoned on to the event and the revenue it provides. The organisers may have been leaned on to open the event up to more riders from out of the area to increase this revenue. My suspicion has no basis in fact, only my own cynicism.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    3leggeddog wrote:
    My 2p

    The FW has traditionally been highly supported by Cumbrian riders, from its infancy up to present day. The belief has been that us Cumbrians have had the priviledge of being able to hand deliver entries to ensure that we ride. I do not see this as a problem, it is local riders who supported the fledgling event, who return the faster times and who provide the majority of the marshalling. Bear in mind that Millom is not the most accessible place, a journey from Carlisle to Millom may take as long as from Manchester.

    A lottery entry tips the balance away from local riders, personally I think this is a bad thing, leading to more renegade entries and could prove damaging to the local support for the event.

    I suspect that someone high up in tourism has cottoned on to the event and the revenue it provides. The organisers may have been leaned on to open the event up to more riders from out of the area to increase this revenue. My suspicion has no basis in fact, only my own cynicism.

    Faster times? How is this a factor? Its not a race so I do not see the merit in mentioning this?

    You have a right to your own viewpoints of course but I disagree with most of them....many many 'non cumbrians' have also contributed greatly to the FWC over the years...in terms of raising money and giving support in all other areas. I feel that since the FWC is the most sought after event then its very decent and noble that Lofty has agreed to this 'extremely fair' way of entering....
  • Well i will no doubt get shot down, but i'm sorry £40 for a sportive charity or not, problem is a lot of the sportive's open their events at the beginning of the year so if you want to get in them as an official rider you have to enter them all at once which could cost £200-to £400 in one go, i can not afford that (wife has a horse and they cost way more then a bike) so in the past i have turned up and ridden the course but i have put some money in the box and not taken any refresments etc.
    So come on shot me down "actung a spitfire"
  • wrt faster times

    People enter the FW for many different reasons; some as a challenge, some as a day out with mates, some with a time in mind others aim to win outright. Sportive events are not advertised as races as it would be illegal to do so. The cold reality is many treat them as such (even if it is just trying to beat your pal). This is obviously recognised by the organisers because finishing times are published and a prize awarded. Do you think the likes of Jebb, Wrigley etc would enter if times were not published? To say that finishing time is not a factor is blinkered to say the least.

    If you have completed the FW you will have appreciated the amount of support around the route, from cow bells and cheering to impromptu feed stops. Guesss who provides most of this? Will there be as much if the % of local riders participating falls, time will tell.

    It will be interesting analysing 2010 results to see if the "fairer" entry has an effect on finishing times.

    Bandits at 4 o' clock Ginger!
  • nickwillnickwill Posts: 2,735
    I'm a local and was definitely going to enter this year's Fred. It would have been my third participation. My current thinking is that I will probably go for the Etape du Dales instead for May, because at least I will know straight away whether I'm in or not.
    The atmosphere on the Fred has always been different from other sportives, largely because of a mix of people ranging from fell runners to keen sportive riders. It has been well supported by local clubs and communities partly because most people in the Lakes know someone who is taking part. If that changes, I wonder if the event will be so warmly received.
    Objectively I fully understand why the new system is fairer, but I do think some of the unique atmosphere will go.
  • holmeboyholmeboy Posts: 674
    One Question, should the Fred Whitton (And all Sportives) be for locals only? :lol:
  • nickwillnickwill Posts: 2,735
    holmeboy wrote:
    One Question, should the Fred Whitton (And all Sportives) be for locals only? :lol:
    No it shouldn't, and I think that the new system is fairer. I just think that, as with a lot of things, a positive change can also have drawbacks!
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I like the idea of the electronic timing system - I'd rather do that with mates on the non FW day than the day of the Sportif.
  • cougie wrote:
    I like the idea of the electronic timing system - I'd rather do that with mates on the non FW day than the day of the Sportif.

    Me too cougie, i was going to try my first sportive this year but when i see all the competitiveness, even over entries or following groups doing an event i think i'll give it a miss.
    What's wrong with just getting the route and doing it any time and with who you like????
  • The Four Seasons timing system is a brilliant idea if you just want to do the route and get an official time but doesn't work if you want to ride as fast as possible. All of the fast times from Rob Jebb downwards are based on being able to ride in an appropriate group for a good chunk of the course. This isn't about turning a sportive into a race, simply trying to ride the best time that you can. Having ridden the route on my own, with mates and on the day it is impossible to ride anything like as quick outside of the day itself. I'm a local so I won't get my 'guaranteed entry' this year but I'll be applying and hoping! It will be interesting to see if the level of support is the same this year and indeed if the times are as quick. It's not a race but it's a lot more than just a charity bike ride for a lot of people, I think about it and the time I'd like to ride in May every single time I ride my bike!
  • Brian BBrian B Posts: 2,071
    giner1961 wrote:
    Well i will no doubt get shot down, but i'm sorry £40 for a sportive charity or not, problem is a lot of the sportive's open their events at the beginning of the year so if you want to get in them as an official rider you have to enter them all at once which could cost £200-to £400 in one go, i can not afford that (wife has a horse and they cost way more then a bike) so in the past i have turned up and ridden the course but i have put some money in the box and not taken any refresments etc.
    So come on shot me down "actung a spitfire"

    Totally off topic here - but a horse costs more than a bike. I hope you have a good job! :lol:
    Brian B.
  • holmeboyholmeboy Posts: 674
    Who's going to enter tommorrow? Bet I can hammer round faster than any of you English wimps on the Day! :wink:
  • The MechanicThe Mechanic Posts: 1,277
    Entry applications are remaining open for a few days due to postal delays caused by the snow. Last chance for those not yet entered.
    I have only two things to say to that; Bo***cks
  • I'm in
  • BrakelessBrakeless Posts: 867
    I'm in :D . Better get training! :(
  • LeighBLeighB Posts: 326
    Just had a look at the list and I’m in too. Need a bit of good weather to get some time on the bike; I haven’t been out for a couple of weeks due to the snow and ice.
  • kfinlaykfinlay Posts: 763
    My mate was lucky enough to get in on his first try - I'd didn't enter as I'm not fit enough but hope to do it in 2011. At least I'm planning other events this year and this will be the first year I've entered any sportives :D
    Kev

    Summer Bike: Colnago C60
    Winter Bike: Vitus Alios
    MTB: 1997 GT Karakorum
  • suzesuze Posts: 302
    Brakeless wrote:
    I'm in :D . Better get training! :(


    +1
    �3 grand bike...30 Bob legs....Slowing with style
  • holmeboyholmeboy Posts: 674
    Bloody Hell I'm in Twice? :?
    269 Martin Holmes Team Spooner M
    714 Martin Holmes Torness Cycle Club M40

    Hills and miles here I come starting some time soon!

    Anybody out there know the Imposter? :D
  • Brian BBrian B Posts: 2,071
    Me and my mate George got in too. My other mate was not so lucky. I suppose its the luck of the draw.
    Brian B.
  • Booked my place, after three years of trying. If there is anyone out there from
    North London/South Herts who fancies a training partner, let me know.

    It aint going to be easy :(


    'A state of war only exists as an excuse for domestic tryanny.....'
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