jolly Wear Union Jack skinsuit for open time trials?

pauli

Been looking for a skinsuit on the net and found one I like with a union jack on the back and is made by jolly Wear. Under the flag is written " British Tribe" Would this be classed as advertising or would it be ok to wear in an open tt :?:

Pokerface

How big is the writing?

pauli

Probably about 2 inch high and go right across the back.it is on amazon website under cycling skinsuits.

bikeboy123

in an open tt can you not even wear your teams skinsuit? why?

evilnailman

bikeboy123 wrote:

in an open tt can you not even wear your teams skinsuit? why?

If your club has paid the fee to CTT for carrying advertising on kit, you can wear any (sleeved) skinsuit you want.

blackhands

Not quite - you can't wear the kit of UCI registered teams.

pauli

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

evilnailman

pauli wrote:

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

Yes, PROVIDED your club has paid CTT he clothing advertising fee.

John.T

evilnailman wrote:

pauli wrote:

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

Yes, PROVIDED your club has paid CTT he clothing advertising fee.

Only if it is the official registered club strip and sponsor. See CTT rule 16.

16. Competitor’s Clothing

Competitors must be clothed from the neck to at least mid-thigh. Sleeves shall be at least mid upper arm length. To be allowed to start all clothing shall be clean and tidy.
No competitor may carry advertising or the name of a commercial business on his race clothing except:
1. where he is a member of a club or team that has paid the advertising fee, he may carry advertising, but must not compete in clothing of a trade team that is/has been registered with the UCI unless he is a member of that team: or
2. when competing in club events
N.B. The inclusion of a manufacturer’s logo shall be permitted.

sub55

John.T wrote:

evilnailman wrote:

pauli wrote:

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

Yes, PROVIDED your club has paid CTT he clothing advertising fee.

Only if it is the official registered club strip and sponsor. See CTT rule 16.

16. Competitor’s Clothing

Competitors must be clothed from the neck to at least mid-thigh. Sleeves shall be at least mid upper arm length. To be allowed to start all clothing shall be clean and tidy.
No competitor may carry advertising or the name of a commercial business on his race clothing except:
1. where he is a member of a club or team that has paid the advertising fee, he may carry advertising, but must not compete in clothing of a trade team that is/has been registered with the UCI unless he is a member of that team: or
2. when competing in club events
N.B. The inclusion of a manufacturer’s logo shall be permitted.

Only if it is the official registered club strip and sponsor

i think you`ll find your wrong there . clubs dont register their kit or any sponsers with the CTT. as long as the clubs name on the entry form has paid its advertisers fees and you are a member of that club , you can ride in anything you like. the advertising on your clothing does`nt have to be that of the company that sponers your club.

sub55

pauli wrote:

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

if you could post a link to a picture and tell me which club your a member of , i could give you a definate answer. but , from what i have read so far ,the answer is yes. i`ve googled "british tri" and it does`nt seem to be a commercial concern. so you are not advertising anything.

andy_wrx

sub55 wrote:

John.T wrote:

evilnailman wrote:

pauli wrote:

Thanks for all the info but can I wear it in an open?

Yes, PROVIDED your club has paid CTT he clothing advertising fee.

Only if it is the official registered club strip and sponsor. See CTT rule 16.

16. Competitor’s Clothing

Competitors must be clothed from the neck to at least mid-thigh. Sleeves shall be at least mid upper arm length. To be allowed to start all clothing shall be clean and tidy.
No competitor may carry advertising or the name of a commercial business on his race clothing except:
1. where he is a member of a club or team that has paid the advertising fee, he may carry advertising, but must not compete in clothing of a trade team that is/has been registered with the UCI unless he is a member of that team: or
2. when competing in club events
N.B. The inclusion of a manufacturer’s logo shall be permitted.

Only if it is the official registered club strip and sponsor

i think you`ll find your wrong there . clubs dont register their kit or any sponsers with the CTT. as long as the clubs name on the entry form has paid its advertisers fees and you are a member of that club , you can ride in anything you like. the advertising on your clothing does`nt have to be that of the company that sponers your club.

I agree, to me that wording in 16.1 says that if your club has paid the advertising fee, you can ride in kit with any advertising on it, so long as it isn't the kit of a UCI trade team
- i.e. if your club has paid the advertising fee, you can ride in kit with 'Bloggs Roofing' or 'Gromit's Cheese' or whatever on it
- not that you have to ride in your registered club kit, that your club kit has to be sponsored by 'Bloggs Roofing' or 'Gromit's Cheese' or whatever
- but you can't ride in Discovery Channel or CSC or Columbia replica team kit, unless you are actually a member of Discovery/CSC/Columbia
(like Bradley Wiggins turning-up at the Levens TT in his Garmin kit - he could wear it because he was a member of Garmin, but you or I couldn't)

If your club hasn't paid the advertising fee, you can't ride in kit with any advertising on it - if it's got little discreet Assos or whatever manufacturer's logos on it then they're OK, but if it were one of those jerseys with Campagnolo or Castelli written in big letters all the way across the chest, that would be deemed 'advertising'
- I heard of one guy who tried to and was made to wear his jersey inside-out...

Now if the skinsuit the OP is on about is this one, I think it would fall foul of that...

Ollieda

When I enquired for my club about what is and isn't allowed I was told basically if not paying advertising fee then can only wear a top that is blank or has the club name (as long as it's not a commercial name i.e. "Bob's Bike Shop Cycling Club") or the top's manufacturer's name (although double branding is not included - i.e. if Endura made a top then Shimano took it and put their name on it as well as Endura's name) . There was no limit to the size of naming and I checked this as our proposed plan for a top had big lettering. If advertising was paid for then the same as above but also including commercial club names and club sponsor names.

If no advertising fee is paid, as long as "British Tribe" is not a UCI registered trade team, a commercial business name or the name of anyone who sponsors cycling in some form then there is nothing wrong with it surley? The only problem I could see with it is if jollywear.com would count as advertising or would it count as a manufacturers name, if it is made by someone else, say, Endura then jollywear put their name on it then its advertising.

Monty Dog

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

dulldave

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

sub55

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

John.T

sub55 wrote:

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

Quite right. They may not be perfect but the rules are not particularly onerous.

pauli

Thankyou Everyone for the advice- gonna buy it, still love it. Shame it wont make me any faster but what the heck.

dulldave

John.T wrote:

sub55 wrote:

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

Quite right. They may not be perfect but the rules are not particularly onerous.

Sorry you're quite right, it should be "And this whole debate demonstrates why cycling racing cannot be taken seriously" My gripe isn't with TTs in particular, more with pedantic bureaucracy that stops a lot of newcomers taking part in cycle racing generally.

John.T

dulldave wrote:

John.T wrote:

sub55 wrote:

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

Quite right. They may not be perfect but the rules are not particularly onerous.

Sorry you're quite right, it should be "And this whole debate demonstrates why cycling racing cannot be taken seriously" My gripe isn't with TTs in particular, more with pedantic bureaucracy that stops a lot of newcomers taking part in cycle racing generally.

And what have you personaly and the other people complaining about how things are run done about it. Much of the work done by the national bodies and organising of events is done by older people who have been doing it for years and in many cases would dearly love to step aside but there are no takers. If you want a modern dynamic sport then do something about it, not just whingeing on forums.

Slow1972

John.T wrote:

dulldave wrote:

John.T wrote:

sub55 wrote:

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

Quite right. They may not be perfect but the rules are not particularly onerous.

Sorry you're quite right, it should be "And this whole debate demonstrates why cycling racing cannot be taken seriously" My gripe isn't with TTs in particular, more with pedantic bureaucracy that stops a lot of newcomers taking part in cycle racing generally.

And what have you personaly and the other people complaining about how things are run done about it. Much of the work done by the national bodies and organising of events is done by older people who have been doing it for years and in many cases would dearly love to step aside but there are no takers. If you want a modern dynamic sport then do something about it, not just whingeing on forums.

+1

Changes are made from the inside by getting involved. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and take pot shots at the efforts of other people who are giving up their free time to support the sport without doing anything yourself beyond criticising others

dulldave

John.T wrote:

dulldave wrote:

John.T wrote:

sub55 wrote:

dulldave wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

And this whole debate demonstrates why TT's cannot be taken seriously - rules like this are a barrier to participation - does anyone give a to$$ about people wearing sponsored kits apart from old farts who rather have us riding on 72" fixed in black alpaca at 5am? These are the same idiots who banned tri-bars for years as being 'dangerous' and yet insisted that you had to wear black shorts and stuck to holding events on dual-carriageways like the A1 and A12 because you could draft the trucks.

+ 1,000,000

well dont really know what your on about.
TT`s are the easiest form of racing to get into , damn site less idiotic rules than anything under BC regs(clothing regs in bc regs are horrendous, you cant even wear overshoes, unless the chief commesaire deems it cold enough as they are deemed to be a fairing. which is banned.) you dont need to have a racing licence and you can enter events from as little as £7.
TT`s attract more riders to more events than all other forms of cycle sports, put together. this is because they are a simple challange of your own ability. you race against yourself and the clock. pure sport. you can race in any form of event that takes your fancy, from extremely hilly mountain tt`s through underlating circuit races to dead flat dc`s over fixed distances. you pay your money, you take your choice.
what more do you want out of a sport.

Quite right. They may not be perfect but the rules are not particularly onerous.

Sorry you're quite right, it should be "And this whole debate demonstrates why cycling racing cannot be taken seriously" My gripe isn't with TTs in particular, more with pedantic bureaucracy that stops a lot of newcomers taking part in cycle racing generally.

And what have you personaly and the other people complaining about how things are run done about it. Much of the work done by the national bodies and organising of events is done by older people who have been doing it for years and in many cases would dearly love to step aside but there are no takers. If you want a modern dynamic sport then do something about it, not just whingeing on forums.

Sorry, I'm talking as someone who is quite new to the concept of cycle racing and am basing this on my initial experiences of even trying to approach it. It is exactly that sort of attitude that means there is nobody to step up and take their place.

So, I'm not allowed an opinion cos I'm not one of the elders of British cycling? Funnily enough, this is kinda related to my point.

John.T

You are allowed an opinion as we all are. It is whether you get stuck in and do something or just whinge that is important. Fresh ideas need fresh minds which are not coming along. I am on the committee of BMBO (British Mountain Bike Orienteering). Half of us are over 60 and the rest are all vets. We get no one standing at the AGM so we just have to carry on. If we just quit the whole thing would fold. Most other committees have the same problem. What is needed is a constant supply of young minds replacing the older experienced ones. A mix is essential as too many old fogies and the sport will stagnate but not enough and the experience will be lost.

BeaconRuth

I'm interested to know exactly what you mean by the

dulldave wrote:

........ pedantic bureaucracy that stops a lot of newcomers taking part in cycle racing generally.

I wouldn't have thought there is a lot of bureaucracy for a beginner to worry about, but sometimes it's hard for someone who is heavily involved in something to understand how a sport appears to an outsider. Can you explain? It must be a very serious problem for you to conclude that

......cycling racing cannot be taken seriously.

Many thousands of us do take cycle sport very seriously indeed, as do the media, the government through lottery funding, sponsors, equipment manufacturers, retailers....... the challenges of getting started in racing can't really be so bad surely?

Ruth

Pross

There's not many sports where you can just turn up and wear what you like. Try turning up in trainers and jeans on your latest golf course! I've been stopped from going onto the rugby field because I was wearing moulded studs. Getting into cycle racing isn't hard but is easier if you join a club as there will always be someone to advise you. I was once the whinger who didn't like the way the old codgers were running my club so stood for election and ended up on the committee. It was then that I appreciated all the work the "old codgers" put in as without them we struggled for time keepers / pusher off for all our club TT's as everyone else wanted to ride. You need to have rules and regulations for a sport and in many cases they are dictated by rules that the governing body may have to follow such as H&S or insurance requirements. OK, it wouldn't harm anyone if people rode in TT's in sleeveless tops but if that were permitted maybe people would want to ride without a top and so on but why would such a simple rule stop anyone who really wanted to from taking part in a race? Most clothing available in a bike shop will comply with clothing regs with the exception of replica or overly branded kit. I suspect the more likely reason putting people off racing is the fear that it is far harder than it actually is.

dulldave

To be fair, I think pedantic bureacraucy is a bit harsh and the rest of that was just me agreeing with what someone else said. I've re-read that post and I now see that the poster was having a go at organisers and I'm not in a position to be miffed with them yet

Let me clarify.

My issue is really about how difficult it all is. If you go to the BC website to find out how to race they just tell you to join a club. Some of us aren't really club people so I don't think this is a very helpful approach.

It was quite a while before someone explained all the categories stuff and how it all worked. I'm still not certain about what all the classification stuff is about. Then there's finding events. The BC calendar is showing 0 results for events in Scotland. I know they exist but the details of them are often impossible to find on the internet.

I find the notion that I can't ride wearing a top with large logos a nonsense. Funnily enough it's fine if I give BC a wod of cash for the privilege first.

My only gripe with event organisers is that often impossible to find their events on the internet.

For a beginner, it really isn't easy to start racing. I've had to have a lot of things explained to me in person before I understood half of it. I'm still not that sure but having spent this year hearing about specific races through other people, I at least now know of some that will take place this year.

I'll give that a bash and let you know how I get on.

BeaconRuth

dulldave wrote:

My issue is really about how difficult it all is. If you go to the BC website to find out how to race they just tell you to join a club. Some of us aren't really club people so I don't think this is a very helpful approach.

It might not seem a very helpful approach but I'm afraid it reflects the fact that cycle races are generally run by clubs. There are very very few people running cycling races for profit (if any) in this country, so the massive amount of work that is required to run races is all put in by volunteers. Traditionally it is clubs which take on the responsibility of running races, so that all the unpaid volunteers needed for all the organising, marshalling, finances, catering, first aid etc come from the club. Each club takes pride in putting on a good race and so plays their part in the cycle racing community. Club members can then feel they have done their bit for the sport and go off and enter other club's races, being on the receiving end of another club's hard work instead.

To say "I don't want to be in a club but I want to race" is kind of like saying "I want to take out of the world of cycle racing but I'm not willing to put anything back in". If you're a member of a club there's at least a chance you'll be asked to marshal for a race or help organise in some way............ the sport is totally dependent on people being willing to do that. There are many many members in my club who cheerfully turn out to stand on a corner and wave a marshalling flag a couple of times a year, to enable other people to enjoy the sport. Some have not raced for many years. Some have never raced, but they recognise that cycle sport doesn't run itself in the UK - it's completely dependent on clubs and people contributing by being active club members.

Sorry for the lecture, but I organise a big event, putting in hours of my spare time for my club every year and I'm happy to do so because I go and ride other clubs' events and get so much out of other people's hard work in other clubs. Can you think of a good reason why I should welcome you to my race if you're not contributing something somewhere to a race I could do?

Ruth

sub55

hear hear

SBezza

sub55 wrote:

hear hear

+1

Pross

+2 spot on. Without clubs there would be no UK road racing scene. OK it may be possible for comanies to organise races for profit as they do with sportives but the cost would be huge to enter as fields on open roads are limited to 80 riders and the organisers would have to bring in a lot of (paid) help. Races I organised probably put about £70 to £100 in the club kitty and that's with full fields, minimal prize money and all the work done by volunteers. So joining a club really is the best option - if you aren't a club person you can still ride alone but you have the support of experienced riders to give you advice when needed at the cost of joining is pretty low (£15 per year at my club which I can easily claw back with the club discount at the LBS that sponsor us).

dulldave

I'm not arguing that clubs aren't essential. I'm questioning the approach that BC take to explaining how to get into racing. The most accessible journey for someone who isn't in a club, but wants to start racing is:

Step 1 - Go along to a race and really enjoy it
Step 2 - Decide to take it a bit more seriously and do some more
Step 3 - Join a club
Step 4 - Take part in lots of races
Step 5 - Volunteer in the organisation of local races

Of course most people don't follow this course because they're usually a member of a club first. But in this case they don't actually need BC to tell them, people in a club will.

It's not helpful to tell a newcomer that they're not really welcome unless they plan to help organise. It's not helpful to tell them to go join a club either. You're asking them to get into a relationship with an organisation before they've even decided if it's their cup of tea. It's best to get them enthused about the sport and then suggest they join a club.

If I were to get into cycle racing I would undoubtedly help out. Coming to think of it I'll probably join a club (I did last year and it didn't go so well) but this doesn't change the fact that the way that newcomers are introduced into cycle racing is not the way that will maximise their numbers.