OT: Currys Harlow

Aidy

Just had literally the worst customer experience there.
I'm providing this as a warning to any others considering offering their custom there.

I walked in, casually browsed around (Christmas shopping y'see) for a little while, then made to leave the store.

I found my exit blocked by the (alleged) store manager, who asked "What have you got?".
That's it, no kind of politeness, or enquiry. Just a plain accusation of theft.

Then then insisted upon checking my bag, which I happily complied with, though I'm aware of my rights and I know full well that I had every right to refuse. But y'know, I had nothing to hide - figured it could have been an honest mistake, I'm reasonably easy going.

Upon finding merely my top, and an empty sunglasses case (yes, she checked), she insisted upon me emptying my pockets, and then, upon *still* finding nothing, insisted upon me removing my top!

Bear in mind, this is all at the front of the store.
And she'd gathered about 10 employees around her. I'm fairly accepting of safety in numbers, but seriously. My 9.5 stone frame just isn't that intimidating.

Upon *still* finding nothing (for there was nothing to find, see), she told me I had a poor attitude, and told me not to come back.

Excuse me? I have a poor attitude? I've complied with even your most ridiculous requests, I've not raised my voice, or used bad language at any stage. I hadn't even spoken to any other members of staff there.

I asked why she'd felt the need to stop me, and she muttered something about me "suspiciously" browsing. Bear in mind I didn't actually pick anything up (I might have played a little on one of the laptop keyboards). I'm not sure how normal window shopping can be considered suspicious.

I asked to speak to the manager, and she told me that she was the manager, and I couldn't talk to anyone else. She insisted upon me leaving once again.

Another person came over and told me that he was also the manager, and that there was nothing he could do, if I'd just like to go quietly on my way.
I asked for the head office phone number.

He gave me the wrong phone number. Thanks for that.

At no stage was any kind of apology offered. I was told I had a poor attitude on several occasions.

Anyway, I've lodged a complaint. Should I not get an answer to my satisfaction, I'll be standing outside next weekend, advising potential customers of the managers' poor attitudes.

Thought I'd warn people in advance.

Don't shop at Currys Harlow.

Flasheart

:evil: That REALLY sucks ..the economy the way is is you think they would be happy to get people in the door, not scaring them off.
Hell, I always browse in lots of shops before buying anything unless I specifically go in to a shop to get something. How else do you get to compare prices etc. ?

+ 1 for lodging the complaint with head office. There is NO WAY you should have to go through what you did in full public view. That has to infringe on your rights somehow (lots of lawyer types here that would know)
If they tried that with me I would have raised hell been VERY vocal and embarressed the f@@k out of the so called managers and staff by having every customer in the store witness it.
Pursue the complaint and maybe the jobsworth will get her comeuppance

fastsuzi

that is poor service, currys suffers from a large shoplifting problem if people loose a knob of a cooker or washing machine or remotes and anything people can pull of machines like cooker burners
people will knick it

Aidy

fastsuzi wrote:

that is poor service, currys suffers from a large shoplifting problem if people loose a knob of a cooker or washing machine or remotes and anything people can pull of machines like cooker burners
people will knick it

I'd've accepted an apology and an explanation of exactly why walking around the store and looking at things is "suspicious". (Seriously, I wasn't behaving any different from anyone else).

Being told that I have a poor attitude and never to come back to the shop (like I'd even want to), was completely out of order.

Kieran_Burns

They have broken any number of laws there.

Personally I'd call the Police and arseholes to Head Office. The Manager should be arrested for the humiliation, personal trespass, assault (yup it is) and nay number of other offenses he's caused.

I really, genuinely would phone the Police about this.

Aidy

Flasheart wrote:

+ 1 for lodging the complaint with head office. There is NO WAY you should have to go through what you did in full public view. That has to infringe on your rights somehow (lots of lawyer types here that would know)
If they tried that with me I would have raised hell been VERY vocal and embarressed the f@@k out of the so called managers and staff by having every customer in the store witness it.
Pursue the complaint and maybe the jobsworth will get her comeuppance

Yeah, I'm following this through all the way.
Spent an hour and a half on the phone to them earlier, now I'm composing a letter.

Stuey01

Kieran_Burns wrote:

assault (yup it is)

WTF?

Care to explain how this is assault?

Kieran_Burns

"Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim"

redddraggon

D-lock

Flasheart

redddraggon wrote:

D-lock

Knicked from Halfords next door?

Aidy

Flasheart wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

D-lock

Knicked from Halfords next door?

I did go to Toys R Us next door to see if I could find a megaphone to advise any potential customers of their likely treatment there...

Couldn't find one, but I'd've paid for it!

Stuey01

Kieran_Burns wrote:

"Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim"

here from the same definition you cherry picked that from:

There can be no assault if the act does not produce a true apprehension of harm in the victim. There must be a reasonable fear of injury. The usual test applied is whether the act would induce such apprehension in the mind of a reasonable person. The status of the victim is taken into account. A threat made to a child might be sufficient to constitute an assault, while an identical threat made to an adult might not.

So it's not assault then.

Kieran_Burns

Assault


From the following definitions it can be establish that there must be an act (noting DPP v Santa-Bermudez (2003) DC) accompanied by a hostile intent calculated to cause apprehension in the mind of the victim. Where the hostile intent is not present, there will be no assault R v Lamb [1967] CA unless it is proved that the alleged assailant was reckless as to whether the complainant would apprehend immediate and unlawful violence.

---

James J in Fagan v Commissioner of Metropolitan Police[1968] DC


Per curiam


Definition of assault:


"An assault is any act which intentionally - or possibly recklessly - causes another person to apprehend immediate and unlawful personal violence."

---

Lord Lane in Attorney General's Reference (No 6 of 1980) (1981) CA


Per curiam


Definition of assault


"... the actual intended use of unlawful force to another person without his consent, or any other lawful excuse."

---

Goff LJ in Collins v Wilcock (1984) QBD:


"An assault is an act which causes another person to apprehend the infliction of immediate, unlawful, force on his person; a battery is the actual infliction of unlawful force on another person ... any touching of another person, however slight, may amount to battery."

---

Lord Slynn in R v Brown (1993) HL


Definition of assault:


"At common law, an assault is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful personal violence and a battery is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly inflicts personal violence upon another. However, the term 'assault,' is now, in both ordinary legal usage and in statutes, regularly used to cover both assault and battery."

So yes - assault

Kieran_Burns

Oh, and to clarify:

VIOLENCE. The abuse of force. Theorie des Lois Criminelles, 32. That force which is employed against common right, against the laws, and against public liberty. Merl. h. t, 2. In cases of robbery, in order to convict the accused, it is requisite to prove that the act was done with violence; but this violence is not confined to an actual assault of the person, by beating, knocking down, or forcibly wresting from him on the contrary, whatever goes to intimidate or overawe, by the apprehension of personal violence, or by fear of life, with a view to compel the delivery of property equally falls within its limits. Alison, Pr. Cr. Law of Scotl. 228; 4 Binn. R. 379; 2 Russ. on Cr. 61; 1 Hale P. C. 553. When an article is merely snatched, as by a sudden pull, even though a momentary force be exerted, it is not such violence as to constitute a robbery. 2 East, P. C. 702; 2 Russ. Cr. 68; Dig. 4, 2, 2 and 3.

deptfordmarmoset

I was told that the best thing to do in such a situation was to say no, you can't search me, if you have reasonable grounds for suspicion, call the police who can search me, but when they find you've detained and defamed me without justification and wasted police time, you'll find you really will be out of pocket.

Personally, I don't shop at Curry's since having been stopped because I was carrying a rucksack - if you think I'm a criminal I won't be a customer...

Aidy

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

I was told that the best thing to do in such a situation was to say no, you can't search me, if you have reasonable grounds for suspicion, call the police who can search me, but when they find you've detained and defamed me without justification and wasted police time, you'll find you really will be out of pocket.

Personally, I don't shop at Curry's since having been stopped because I was carrying a rucksack - if you think I'm a criminal I won't be a customer...

Well, I was in half a mind to refuse, and insist they called the police, to be honest.
But well, 'tis the season and everything. I didn't really want to make a huge scene.
This is the one and only time I've been searched by a shop.

I was most put out by her entire attitude throughout though. And particularly the veiled insult of "you have a poor attitude", and her "you aren't welcome in this store in future".

So, I didn't attempt to steal anything - thus I'm unwelcome?

In any case, I've written a letter to their complaints department. I'll be sending a copy to their Head Office too. If I don't get a satisfactory response this week, I'll be there next weekend advising potential customers of the treatment they're likely to expect.

redddraggon

I worked in loads of shops when I was at school, and a good majority of managers thought they were something special, and lorded it over everyone.

Aidy wrote:

If I don't get a satisfactory response this week, I'll be there next weekend advising potential customers of the treatment they're likely to expect.

You'll just look like a twat then, you should have made your stand when they were being pr!cks.

CiB

I might pop over to Harlow with a rucksack then tomorrw and act in a suspicious manner m'lud, just to see what hapens. I like a squabble sometimes.

wicked2627

Guys - taking a different look at this, we weren't there. I doubt that the staff would do that for a laugh - maybe someone accused the poster of putting something into their bag? The fact she was waiting for you may suggest that.

What I would do is ask for the Head Office to investigate and ask them to review the CCTV and give accurate timings and details of the situation. Hopefully they can look back and watch you browsing through the shop. Mention that you are aware laws have been broken and you will be taking it further, but do not go into detail and say you are talking to a solicitor (As if you are incorrect, they won't take the threat seriously)

You may get some freebies from them. When it's al sorted, go into the same store and ask the manager to serve you when you get whatever they offer.

I believe they may be in breach of 'False Imprisonment' but not really sure.

Stuey01

Kieran, all of your examples hinge on an Intent to cause apprehension of personal violence in the victim. There is no suggestion of that in the original post.

Not assault.

dilemna

Why has this been posted in COMMUTING???? It has NOTHING to do with CYCLING let alone COMMUTING. It should be in CAKE STOP CAFE.

Anyway how can an assault have been committed as by your own admission you said you consented to it so as not to cause a scene. Did the manager say he/she would have you beaten up or hurt by the staff if you refused? This would have constituted an assault. I somehow doubt that this was said. Had you refused to comply with their request and they forcibly removed your top then it would have been assault and battery. You sound a bit naive to acquiesce to a stranger demanding you remove your top to reveal your upper body - you are a male I take it?

Having worked in a number of retail positions at varying levels staff have to be so careful before accusing customers of theft and searching their belongings and persons.

If the degree of scrutiny you say you attracted did occur then it should have been handled in a more discreet and professional manner. Also I get the impression you had not actually left the premises so had you anything in your bags then you could still potentially pay for it.

Do you look like a chav?

-spider-

dilemna wrote:

Why has this been posted in COMMUTING???? It has NOTHING to do with CYCLING let alone COMMUTING. It should be in CAKE STOP CAFE.

Might be why he put OT before his heading?

Aidy

Wicked2627 wrote:

Guys - taking a different look at this, we weren't there. I doubt that the staff would do that for a laugh - maybe someone accused the poster of putting something into their bag? The fact she was waiting for you may suggest that.

Yeah, I accept that this might've been the case. I didn't really object to being stopped.

But "You have a exceptionally poor attitude" and "Don't come back here again", rather than "Sorry, we appear to have made a mistake" kinda took the piss.

Aidy

ChrisInBicester wrote:

I might pop over to Harlow with a rucksack then tomorrw and act in a suspicious manner m'lud, just to see what hapens. I like a squabble sometimes.

I did consider nudging one or two of my friends into doing so.

If they're stopped, the result could be fairly entertaining, and if they're not, it's discrimination, right?

An employee coming off shift caught me outside (after listening to me spend 40 minutes logding a complaint on my phone) and said that he'd heard that they didn't like the way I'd been looking at printers with something on my mind.

daniel_b

Aidy wrote:

Wicked2627 wrote:

Guys - taking a different look at this, we weren't there. I doubt that the staff would do that for a laugh - maybe someone accused the poster of putting something into their bag? The fact she was waiting for you may suggest that.

Yeah, I accept that this might've been the case. I didn't really object to being stopped.

But "You have a exceptionally poor attitude" and "Don't come back here again", rather than "Sorry, we appear to have made a mistake" kinda took the wee-wee.

That is the key part for me, the approach and attitude are what sucks, not necessarily asking to search your bag.

Nail em to the wall if you get the chance, shocking behaviour, and to think I used to work for dsg :roll:

I did actually 'apprehend' 2 genuine tea leafs in my time there though, but in my 18 months there never heard of any member of staff accusing someone of stealing without some evidence beforehand.

Be very interested to hear how you get on, this kind of thing just shouldn't happen imho.

Dan

suzyb

Daniel B wrote:

Aidy wrote:

Wicked2627 wrote:

Guys - taking a different look at this, we weren't there. I doubt that the staff would do that for a laugh - maybe someone accused the poster of putting something into their bag? The fact she was waiting for you may suggest that.

Yeah, I accept that this might've been the case. I didn't really object to being stopped.

But "You have a exceptionally poor attitude" and "Don't come back here again", rather than "Sorry, we appear to have made a mistake" kinda took the wee-wee.

That is the key part for me, the approach and attitude are what sucks, not necessarily asking to search your bag.

+1

redddraggon

-spider- wrote:

dilemna wrote:

Why has this been posted in COMMUTING???? It has NOTHING to do with CYCLING let alone COMMUTING. It should be in CAKE STOP CAFE.

Might be why he put OT before his heading?

why put something off topic, when it can be put into a forum where it's relevant though?

NGale

Hang on they essentially made you do a strip search in a public place? Only the police can do that under PACE arrangements.

I don't know much about the law, but I am pretty sure only the police can enforce a strip search. Also if they had grounds to believe you had stolen, then they have the right to hold you in somewhere other than a public place until the police arrive.

I'm sorry but they cannot and do not have the right to infringe your basic rights like that. They essentially acted as judge and jury in one go.

Aidy

redddraggon wrote:

why put something off topic, when it can be put into a forum where it's relevant though?

Because I post here, and not there - and I like the community here (no disrespect to Cake Stop folk - I just like it here).

And it beats reading "What lights?" threads all the time

spasypaddy

something happened to me when i went to the local post office. i went the other way, i went mental at the guy and he backed down. He accused me of steeling a can of red bull when i put my mobile in my pocket.

everytime i go in there now he backs away behind the counter.


im starting to think i have anger issues

NGale

spasypaddy wrote:

something happened to me when i went to the local post office. i went the other way, i went mental at the guy and he backed down. He accused me of steeling a can of red bull when i put my mobile in my pocket.

everytime i go in there now he backs away behind the counter.


im starting to think i have anger issues

I don't have anger issues, I just want to punch everyone, no issue with that :roll: