Wiggins - the ultimate journey man (a.k.a. gun for hire)

bigmat

intothe12 wrote:

andyp wrote:

intothe12 wrote:

something all very "stephen fry" about that look he has going on.

my default position on people who were clothes like that usually is..."tw*t".

I'm glad to have my views confirmed.

My default position on people who judge others on how they dress is tw*t. I'm glad to have my views confirmed. :twisted:

If you had of been really sharp, you would have also added in that I can't spell for sh*t....were vs wear.... too bad, missed opportunitiy

Had have... come on man, sort it out!

Tusher

Groan, a double period of English grammar on a Friday morning. Ah, the memories............



I always trust a man who polishes his shoes to regimental standard.

I never trust a man who opts for vanity over comfort in his choice of footwear.




Any-one else want to come and sit with me on this fence?

TommyEss

I'm currently about 2/3rds the way through Wiggins' autobiography at the moment - and throughout it I keep reading about "track track track track", "pursuit, madison, pursuit, team pursuit" - he rode road races for base mileage and smacked the pursuiters round the velodrome in two Olympics and the Worlds...

Now he's changed tack, and has made a pretty good stab at road racing proper (and with the IP being dropped from the Olympic program, like Romero, he's got to look for new challenges)

The one common thing throughout the whole story, is Team GB. When he was stuck in motels in France with a team who wouldn't speak to him - Team GB supported him. When he went off the rails when his Dad started playing up - Team GB supported him - when he got arrested with Cofidis - Team GB - when his Dad died in preparation for the Worlds' - Shane Sutton phoned him up in the wee hours to break the news, and DaveB offered to fly him first class to Oz to make arrangements for the funeral...

And Team Sky - well that's Team GB too - money's obviously an issue - it's a professional sport and he's there to make money - but if you read the story, every time he's really committed to something, he's done it with massive support from Team GB (much of it in the background, in tandem with his protours)

So yes, on paper, he's had a lot of pro teams - but in the background, there's only ever been one team - and now he's there on paper too!

(and that's not a slight on any of his pro teams btw - JV in particular has shown a lot of faith and given him excellent support - Columbia were good to him too - but in terms of getting him to lose the weight, focus on the consistent power outputs from his pursuit efforts, the pschologist etc. - that was all Team GB)

singlespeedexplosif

bobtbuilder wrote:

I think he's behaved like a bit of a tw*t. After his "Garmin are the greatest" crap last year, now he's on the move again without even having the decency to see out his contract.

Mercenary sh*thead. :evil:

:shock:
It's professional sport. And it happens all the time outside of sport too. Good on him.

mclarent

Personally, I'm made up he joined Sky. Absolute blinder.

And that Dogma is scherweeet, esp. in team colours.

pat1cp

I wish Brad every success, but,,,, I don't think he'll top ten next year. This years parcours suited him down to a tee, next year less so. Next year we only have one real time trial, this year we had three.

By the way, Garmins ride in the team time trial was (1/2 a) team performance of the year for me.

Next year it's lumpier with less time trialling and the competition will be stronger. Riders that were injured or finished behind Brad that could, and probably will do better next year include:-
VDV
Nibali
Kreuziger
Basso
Gesink
F Schleck
Feillu
Sanchez
Roche
Martin
Menchov

And you can also throw in a few who might be regarded a little past it:-
Leipheimer
Evans
Sastre
Kloeden

I honestly hope it goes really well for both Brad and Sky, it'd be good for British Cycling. But I think both are up against it.

Brads bank manager must be smiling though

Pross

Some sad and bitter responses on here. British Cycling have made Wiggins the rider he his and, like him or not, he's helped put cycling on the map in this country. Now, the people who have helped his success have started a pro road team and he has the chance to join up with them full time. Also, why would anyone expect a professional sportsman to be loyal? It is just a job and we would all jump ship if the price is right. Finally why do people see Garmin as the wronged party here? If they'd wanted to hold on to him they could have, all they have been bothered about is getting their money's worth out of releasing him from his contract so they are just as mercenary. You can bet that haad Wiggins not performed well this season they would have jumped at the chance to release him at the first opportunity.

iain_j

+1 TommyEss

DonDaddyD

Nothing wrong working your way up the ladder moving to a better team as your career progresses and skills improve. Would we be saying the same of a footballer, Rio Ferdinand for example, who started at West Ham, moved to Leeds (at a time when they were good) and then onto Man Utd?

In Wiggins case his move, one of arguable passion, to Team Sky, to be a british rider - arguably Britian's best chance right now of winning the tour - riding for British based club whose remit is to have a British Tour winner by 2014.

I'm not seeing an issue in his move. Assuming he can handle the pressure think of all the support he'll get working with people who know him both professionally and personally, the raised profile, the benefits said profile will have for promoting the sport he loves in his Country. Oh and of course if successful, the glory he could achieve. Ideallistic? Yes. What is wrong with that?

Why are some so determined to hold him back going as far as to frown on a man for taking a chance.

frenchfighter

Pross wrote:

Also, why would anyone expect a professional sportsman to be loyal?

Why would we expect them to be dis-loyal. So many people say what you have and I don't understand. Just because you are a pro-sportsman it doesn't mean you leave your morals or normal comportement at home (loyalty is just one thing).

Pross wrote:

It is just a job and we would all jump ship if the price is right.

Speak for yourself.

Pross wrote:

If they'd wanted to hold on to him they could have.

JV said he didn't want to put Brad, the team and other people involved through the courts, which is the only way they could have stopped the move. They tried their hardest to hold on to him.

frenchfighter

DonDaddyD wrote:

Nothing wrong working your way up the ladder moving to a better team as your career progresses and skills improve. Would we be saying the same of a footballer, Rio Ferdinand for example, who started at West Ham, moved to Leeds (at a time when they were good) and then onto Man Utd?

I think the points of contention are:
He was wanted by no team last year and Garmin put faith in him and worked with him to help him to his current status. He still has one year left in his contract so, not only is he breaking a contract (I know for a fee), he could have been honoroubale (IMO) and stayed for a year. Or at the very least, have something positive to say about the team.

I understand all the reasons why he would want to go to Sky and they all make sense...he could have gone in 2011.

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

Pross wrote:

Also, why would anyone expect a professional sportsman to be loyal?

Why would we expect them to be dis-loyal. So many people say what you have and I don't understand. Just because you are a pro-sportsman it doesn't mean you leave your morals or normal comportement at home (loyalty is just one thing).

Pross wrote:

It is just a job and we would all jump ship if the price is right.

Speak for yourself.

Pross wrote:

If they'd wanted to hold on to him they could have.

JV said he didn't want to put Brad, the team and other people involved through the courts, which is the only way they could have stopped the move. They tried their hardest to hold on to him.

It's not an issue of loyalty, it's someone changing their job for what they consider a better job. Teams will ditch riders for better riders if they feel it will benefit them. Why is pro cycling any different to other pro sports?

Are you really saying you wouldn't quit your current job if another employer (who you'd enjoyed a good working relationship with over many years) offered to triple your salary? If you wouldn't I salute you but suspect you are in a huge minority!!

If that was the case why did they only release him once Sky offered them enough money? Obviously we don't know the wording of the contract but if it was as tight as it should have been then they could have held on to him.

bigmat

The thing I don't really get (with Swift and Wiggins) is how they / Sky ended up in this situation in the first place. I mean, Team Sky has been on the cards for a couple of years now so all involved must have known that the 2 year contracts entered into would have to be broken / bought out. I'm surprised there wasn't some agreement with Katyusha behind the scenes, and Wiggo could have signed a 1 year contract with Garmin. Its all ended up a bit of a mess and I can understand why people don't like the idea of Pro Cycling going down the football transfers route. I think the riders' motives are genuine though.

lucybears

Pross wrote:

f that was the case why did they only release him once Sky offered them enough money? Obviously we don't know the wording of the contract but if it was as tight as it should have been then they could have held on to him.

“It’s been a long protracted process with a lot of lawyers that hasn’t been very much fun whatsoever,” said Vaughters

The decision to settle, he added, was “based on the fact that I did not feel that going into a protracted legal battle was good for the team and the athletes I should be concentrating on and supporting,” he said. “My energy is better spent on something else than a legal battle with James Murdoch.”

But if Wiggins was legally under contract with Garmin in 2010, I asked, what was the basis for a legal battle? “UCI rules are subservient to national employment law,” Vaughters said, and because cycling doesn’t have a formalized transfer system, rider contracts are governed by the contract or employment law of the rider’s nationality.

The United Kingdom’s labor laws are in line with the broader European community’s, which guarantee the right to free labor movement. Two high-profile cases in European football (Bosman, 1995 and Webster, 2008) underlined that, and in the latter case, upheld that athletes could walk away from even an existing contract with minimal penalty.


[and the understatement of the week]
“The legal resources Sky has at its disposal are quite large.”

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... departure/

Gazzaputt

Bradley played a blinder.

Great move for him I'm so pleased he's now with Sky.

Also Loved the outfit for the press conference.

frenchfighter

From his twitter:

Wouldn't piss on these wankers if they were on fire!
11 minutes ago from mobile web I've had some Horrible messages from some brainless wankers who feel my move to sky has somehow affected there own lives!
14 minutes ago from mobile web

bompington

frenchfighter wrote:

From his twitter:

Wouldn't wee-wee on these wankers if they were on fire!
11 minutes ago from mobile web I've had some Horrible messages from some brainless wankers who feel my move to sky has somehow affected there own lives!
14 minutes ago from mobile web

I'm sure no-one on these forums takes the pros' actions personally...

andy_wrx

I think TommyEss has it

pat1cp

frenchfighter wrote:

From his twitter:

Wouldn't wee-wee on these wankers if they were on fire!
11 minutes ago from mobile web I've had some Horrible messages from some brainless wankers who feel my move to sky has somehow affected there own lives!
14 minutes ago from mobile web

Was that directed at you ??

I think we're off the mark a bit here too. I think Brad has got a great deal (far better than he could have expected 12 months ago), JV has had a payoff and will probably bring someone else in. Brailsford has "got his man"!!! And best of all, Murdoch's paid for the lot.

iainf72

pat1cp wrote:

I think we're off the mark a bit here too. I think Brad has got a great deal (far better than he could have expected 12 months ago), JV has had a payoff and will probably bring someone else in. Brailsford has "got his man"!!! And best of all, Murdoch's paid for the lot.

JV has said they're not getting anyone else in and if you read the interviews with him and Millar, they're clearly disappointed.

It's a good deal for Brad, but then, as someone pointed out to me off-forum, there is probably a French no-hoper earning more money than him

iainf72

http://twitter.com/bradwiggins/status/2556361281

iainf72

http://twitter.com/bradwiggins/status/2556361281

pat1cp

iainf72 wrote:

pat1cp wrote:

I think we're off the mark a bit here too. I think Brad has got a great deal (far better than he could have expected 12 months ago), JV has had a payoff and will probably bring someone else in. Brailsford has "got his man"!!! And best of all, Murdoch's paid for the lot.

JV has said they're not getting anyone else in and if you read the interviews with him and Millar, they're clearly disappointed.

It's a good deal for Brad, but then, as someone pointed out to me off-forum, there is probably a French no-hoper earning more money than him

OK, so JV and David Millar aren't as happy as they could be, I suppose that's the nature of the beast, someone is going to feel like they've lost out.

But generally, it's a good thing, no ? More money in the sport and all that, so then another French no-hoper can get an even fatter pay-cheque !!!! :roll:

pat1cp

iainf72 wrote:

http://twitter.com/bradwiggins/status/2556361281

FF, you've done it !!!! You've managed to change the face of professional cycling, for the next year anyway !!!

iainf72

According to an article in the Times, JV hasn't spoken to Wiggins since August.

Vaughters, though, was clearly unhappy. He said that he had not spoken to Wiggins since August, he described the news as “a settlement, but not an agreement” and suggested that his only alternative to succumbing to the pressure to release Wiggins from the last year of his contract would have been to go to the courts

It sounds very much like JV knows he who has the most lawyers wins, so just avoided it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 952526.ece

The "I'm here to compete" thing is also good talk but in road cycling you need some friends to survive.

lucybears

iainf72 wrote:

It sounds very much like JV knows he who has the most lawyers wins, so just avoided it.

Jonathan Vaughters with the understatement of the week

“The legal resources Sky has at its disposal are quite large.”

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderrepor ... departure/

DaveyL

"He said that he had not spoken to Wiggins since August"

He didn't talk to Bradders at Millar's wedding then?

pat1cp

DaveyL wrote:

"He said that he had not spoken to Wiggins since August"

He didn't talk to Bradders at Millar's wedding then?

If JV is saying things like that then it surely states that both he and Bradleee knew he was off,,,,,,, last August. It was merely a case of sorting out the wonga changing hands, which they've done.

iainf72

pat1cp wrote:

If JV is saying things like that then it surely states that both he and Bradleee knew he was off,,,,,,, last August. It was merely a case of sorting out the wonga changing hands, which they've done.

Pat, you seem to be disregarding everything JV is saying.

Garmin have been fighting to keep him. It sounds like it might have not been very nice behind the scenes. We'll never know I suppose.

To a pro cycling team is cash actually an asset. Not really. A good rider is an asset, cash is just a means to that rider. So Garmin are down a decent rider and have some cash. Cash may help them win a load of kermesse's in Belgium but not much else.

pat1cp

Fair point Iain.

But as you say, it appears things went pretty rotten a while ago.