1:1 vs 2:1 Fight...
Chunkers1980
Posts: 8,035
I read on the net some people say Shimano should switch to 1:1 as it's better. Here's someone else's take on it which is what I was thinking:
"So with this 1:1 thing, do you have to move the shift lever twice as far? If not, then it's fairly academic isn't it since movement at lever translates to movement at mech in the same proportions regardless of the levers in between. More cable movement might make it work with crappier cables but keeping them tidy is so minor a chore that it's not worth taking it into consideration when shopping for groupsets"
Anyone have an opinion on this, or has it been raised before? Search doesn't seem to come up with anything on this, or anything else for that matter.
"So with this 1:1 thing, do you have to move the shift lever twice as far? If not, then it's fairly academic isn't it since movement at lever translates to movement at mech in the same proportions regardless of the levers in between. More cable movement might make it work with crappier cables but keeping them tidy is so minor a chore that it's not worth taking it into consideration when shopping for groupsets"
Anyone have an opinion on this, or has it been raised before? Search doesn't seem to come up with anything on this, or anything else for that matter.
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No - I'd imagine they're pretty similar in stroke length. However for the same stroke you're having to do twice as much work, so there must be a mechanical disadvantage somewhere?0
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Say for arguments sake, the mech moves 1cm to change one gear. With SRAM, does that mean that the cable also moves 1cm, and Shimano it moves 0.5cm?
I guess it shows up when the indexing isn't quite right due to bad setup, dirt, friction etc. When Sram is 1mm out, it means the mech is 1mm out, but with shimano, the mech would be 2mm out.0 -
If the lever throw and length are the same, and the cassette spacing is the same, and the springs in the mech and lever are the same, and you discount the effect of cable friction on shifting...the lever should feel exactly the same on a 1:1 system or 2:1 system.
As far as I know, cable friction is the dividing factor between the systems. I can't remember which is which though so that's where I shut up.0 -
bails87 wrote:Say for arguments sake, the mech moves 1cm to change one gear. With SRAM, does that mean that the cable also moves 1cm, and Shimano it moves 0.5cm?
I guess it shows up when the indexing isn't quite right due to bad setup, dirt, friction etc. When Sram is 1mm out, it means the mech is 1mm out, but with shimano, the mech would be 2mm out.
Yep both correct.
So shimano has to do less (1/2) mechanical movement to shift 1 gear. So, SRAM shifter will have to move twice the amount of cable. This is where it could be considered not as good as shimano as more gearing is required internally in the shifter to do the same job, meaning for the same stroke length internally a SRAM shifter is 'doing' more (x2), which would mean the lever is harder to press? as this has to be geared up....
All just my take please correct me if you feel I'm wonrg anywhere...0 -
SRAM levers do move more than Shimano ones I think.
TBH, and this is only my opinion. Shimano shift smoother, as long as your set-up is tip-top and clean. As soon as the going gets dirty/muddy/wet 300odd days a year in the UK then the extra leverage of the SRAM (and mud clearence of their derailers) means you can keep going when it's biblical out, which is more important to me than a 'smooth' shift.
Christos if i'm giving it death or glory down whites in the mash-up, rocks are flying, fork and shock going like a fiddlers elbow and BB is begging for mercy I just want THE NEXT FUCKING GEAR NOW! I care not the lever isn't like pushing my thumb into warm butter. I want click, slam, bosch - next ratio.
I've had both, and as you might just have picked up, I'm a SRAM Man.0 -
tis an easy fight to win. sram is better in every way.0
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My winter bike has Sram X7 mech and shifter with Gore full outer cable (Single ring on the front). I haven't re-indexed or done anything to it in two years of exclusively winter riding.
My summer bike, XT, is cleaned up and reindexed every 3 months to keep it sweet. You don't really notice the gradual deteriation but after a service you tend to realise how bad it had got.Northwind wrote: It's like I covered it in superglue and rode it through ebay.0 -
P-Jay wrote:
TBH, and this is only my opinion. Shimano shift smoother, as long as your set-up is tip-top and clean. As soon as the going gets dirty/muddy/wet 300odd days a year in the UK then the extra leverage of the SRAM (and mud clearence of their derailers) means you can keep going when it's biblical out, which is more important to me than a 'smooth' shift.
I've had both, and as you might just have picked up, I'm a SRAM Man.
this is pure pish! my shimano stuff works just as well as mates sram stuff in uk conditions!
you are a sram man.....that is why you prefer sram....no other reason!Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
cee wrote:P-Jay wrote:
TBH, and this is only my opinion. Shimano shift smoother, as long as your set-up is tip-top and clean. As soon as the going gets dirty/muddy/wet 300odd days a year in the UK then the extra leverage of the SRAM (and mud clearence of their derailers) means you can keep going when it's biblical out, which is more important to me than a 'smooth' shift.
I've had both, and as you might just have picked up, I'm a SRAM Man.
this is pure pish! my shimano stuff works just as well as mates sram stuff in uk conditions!
you are a sram man.....that is why you prefer sram....no other reason!
I'm sure the preference for SRAM isn't at a genetic level. I prefer SRAM because, I've had both and in my experiance it works better in bad conditions.0 -
P-Jay wrote:cee wrote:P-Jay wrote:
TBH, and this is only my opinion. Shimano shift smoother, as long as your set-up is tip-top and clean. As soon as the going gets dirty/muddy/wet 300odd days a year in the UK then the extra leverage of the SRAM (and mud clearence of their derailers) means you can keep going when it's biblical out, which is more important to me than a 'smooth' shift.
I've had both, and as you might just have picked up, I'm a SRAM Man.
this is pure pish! my shimano stuff works just as well as mates sram stuff in uk conditions!
you are a sram man.....that is why you prefer sram....no other reason!
I'm sure the preference for SRAM isn't at a genetic level. I prefer SRAM because, I've had both and in my experiance it works better in bad conditions.
this is also why i prefer sram.
i actually "downgraded" from new xtr on my stumpy to x9 as the performance is about a million times better from sram. if the shimano had been any good, i would have kept it, but it was fine whereas my sram is ace.0 -
shimano is superior in every concievable way.
i should know , i work for sram , never seen such garbage roll of a production line.
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yeah bigbenj ! us shimo guys can take em.
reminds me of the bloods vs cribs us gang war
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Thats because google is fat... therefore biased towards sofas :Pbails87 wrote:0 -
ben, ben , ben.
if you were richer, you'd have a fs bike.0 -
seeing as though i was planning on buying a Ibis Mojo..... i'd say I made an educated decision instead of buying something I don't want or needsheepsteeth wrote:ben, ben , ben.
if you were richer, you'd have a fs bike. 0 -
hey bails87 !
i just did that google fight thingy and ....
sram got spanked 8)0 -
bigbenj_08 wrote:
seeing as though i was planning on buying a Ibis Mojo..... i'd say I made an educated decision instead of buying something I don't want or needsheepsteeth wrote:ben, ben , ben.
if you were richer, you'd have a fs bike.
if you didnt want it why were you looking for one, and a corsair, and a blood and a remedy? cause fs bikes are better (thought id throw that in seeing as this is pretty much a can of worms type thread 8) )0 -
biff55 wrote:hey bails87 !
i just did that google fight thingy and ....
sram got spanked 8)
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.0 -
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.
Giant Anthem X0 -
like I keep saying.... I've tried some but don't like them. When it boils down to it, I can't see what the extra price of a FS will give me....especially on UK trails.sheepsteeth wrote:bigbenj_08 wrote:
seeing as though i was planning on buying a Ibis Mojo..... i'd say I made an educated decision instead of buying something I don't want or needsheepsteeth wrote:ben, ben , ben.
if you were richer, you'd have a fs bike.
if you didnt want it why were you looking for one, and a corsair, and a blood and a remedy? cause fs bikes are better (thought id throw that in seeing as this is pretty much a can of worms type thread 8) )
I tried pretty much all the bikes people rave about atm.... Trek, Lapierre, Spesh and the Marin... but the bounce at the rear is poo.... i'm supple and fit enough to use my knees thanks.
I am still looking at a Blood/Corsair as they're technically soft-tails, short rear travel, long front travel. I just don't like the builds being offered and I've already got a play bike.0 -
so why bother with 160mm up front, your arms will do that for you surely?0
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hey sheepsteeth ! your google fight was between individual components
i typed in a fight between the whole company brands.
try again 8)0 -
mine scratches beneath the surface and exposes the weakness of shimano0
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very weak reply.
the internet universe , the google fight settled all. 0 -
im off to buy a hardtail and some shimano, i have seen the error of my ways. 0
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good lad !
one by one they fall...
:twisted:0
