Hit but Driver in Denial

Sailing7

I was knocked off my bike by a motorist six weeks ago whilst on my morning commute. He was turning right into the road I was also entering from the opposite direction. He didn't see me and his front wheel ended up making contact with my right foot and pedal. I ended up over the handlebars in a hedge! I looked a sight, cut face and covered in thorns. He did stop and helped me pull my bike out of the hedge. I was glad to be unhurt and happy that the bike appeared undamaged.

In my rush to get back on and to work we never exchanged details. Stupid, I know! Luckily the next day he passed me on the same stretch of road and I got his registration number. I reported the accident that day and the Police have given me his details.

To cut a long story short I've written to him three times seeking £200 compensation for the torn clothing and bits of bike that did get broken. The last letter I hand delivered, as his house is only a short detour. All my letters have been ignored. He must be in denial.

So should I go down the legal route with one of those 'no win, no fee' companies? Or would a personal call to his house, so I could show him the mark on my pedal and shoe, be more convincing? It's a very nice house, converted barn, covered in Christmas lights and his convertible sports car had a private plate.....

Any of you out there got experience of this?

fossyant

Solicitor.

Try and go via a 'cycling' one.

Leigh Day is British Cyclings, although your case will need to be assessed as you don't have BC/CTC insurance.

el_presidente

Sailing7 wrote:

I was knocked off my bike by a motorist six weeks ago whilst on my morning commute. He was turning right into the road I was also entering from the opposite direction. He didn't see me and his front wheel ended up making contact with my right foot and pedal. I ended up over the handlebars in a hedge! I looked a sight, cut face and covered in thorns. He did stop and helped me pull my bike out of the hedge. I was glad to be unhurt and happy that the bike appeared undamaged.

In my rush to get back on and to work we never exchanged details. Stupid, I know! Luckily the next day he passed me on the same stretch of road and I got his registration number. I reported the accident that day and the Police have given me his details.

To cut a long story short I've written to him three times seeking £200 compensation for the torn clothing and bits of bike that did get broken. The last letter I hand delivered, as his house is only a short detour. All my letters have been ignored. He must be in denial.

So should I go down the legal route with one of those 'no win, no fee' companies? Or would a personal call to his house, so I could show him the mark on my pedal and shoe, be more convincing? It's a very nice house, converted barn, covered in Christmas lights and his convertible sports car had a private plate.....

Any of you out there got experience of this?

burn the house down. A short circuit in the christmas lights will be blamed.

FeynmanC

It seems to be a common occurance - unless the poster wakes up with ambulance and police in attendence, that we are not calling the police when we are knocked off and injured.

Im sure i was told when I was doing my driving test that, should I be involved in an accident and there were injuries, I should not move the car (unless it was in danger of causing greater injury) and the police MUST be called.

Can someone clarify this, as maybe this needs to be drummed into cyclists to help avoid some of these problems.

Zachariah

The driver is responding in a completely rational way. At the scene of the accident, he must have assumed you and the bicycle were undamaged and carried on to work, perhaps as shaken as you were. As far as he was concerned, the indident was over and done with at this stage.

Now a few days later he gets letters demanding money. Maybe he throws them in the bin. Maybe he shows them to a solicitor. Maybe he takes them to the police, thinking someone is shaking him down.

The sad fact is that by failing to call in the police and getting an accident report at the time, you've pretty much abandoned any claim to compensation. By all means go to a solicitor yourself, and they will give you their sad face and explain that making a claim now will be next to impossible. No witnesses, and any injuries or bike-damage you show can not be linked to the accident (after all, you could have smashed your bike up yourself! And fallen down the stairs! etc...)

Chalk this one down to experience and carry on with your life.

mapleflot

I try to read this sticky:thread in LFGSS every now and then hoping enough will sink in to remember
through any shock I may suffer in an accident....http://www.londonfgss.com/thread4213.html

snailracer

Zachariah wrote:

The driver is responding in a completely rational way. At the scene of the accident, he must have assumed you and the bicycle were undamaged and carried on to work, perhaps as shaken as you were. As far as he was concerned, the indident was over and done with at this stage.

Now a few days later he gets letters demanding money. Maybe he throws them in the bin. Maybe he shows them to a solicitor. Maybe he takes them to the police, thinking someone is shaking him down.

The sad fact is that by failing to call in the police and getting an accident report at the time, you've pretty much abandoned any claim to compensation. By all means go to a solicitor yourself, and they will give you their sad face and explain that making a claim now will be next to impossible. No witnesses, and any injuries or bike-damage you show can not be linked to the accident (after all, you could have smashed your bike up yourself! And fallen down the stairs! etc...)

Chalk this one down to experience and carry on with your life.

I thought a minor accident needs to be reported to the police within 24 hours, not immediately after the event. A cyclist probably has some leeway because it could be claimed that the collision caused them to, er, not think clearly.
I agree the driver is not acting unreasonably, though. I would expect a prudent insurance company solicitor to tell the driver to pass on all correspondance and not communicate with the cyclist directly.

CdrJake

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

I believe from conversations with NGale that if an ambulance is called you do not need to call the police as it should be standard practice across England and Wales for the ambulance service to contact the police. So calling an ambulance won't get their back up at least until the police arrive with them.

I have also been on the other end, where I was the motorist who hit the cyclist. I at no point denied what had happened and privately agreed to pay out to the cyclist the cost of a new bike and a lost days pay (any more than that and I would have put it through my insurance), we have actually since become good friends and whenever I am back at home in Surrey we go out on a Sunday cycle together.

benno68

I'd take a sneaky visit to the guys house and take a few photo's of the car in the hope that there is some visible damage.

I wouldn't call at his house as he could pull the "harrassment card". Go to a solicitor, but you'll need to have been injured and have a provable claim for compo if they are to take it on.

If it's just for property damage, you could always send a 14 day written demand and then issue a County Court small claims summons against him. You can do that online but there is a fee and you will need receipts (or a quote) for the cost of the damaged items.

This link should help:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

cheehee

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

spen666

el_presidente wrote:

....

burn the house down. A short circuit in the christmas lights will be blamed.

Now for a small fee, I could introduce you to some careless people

spen666

Forthe benefit of the tape, I was only joking with the last comment

CdrJake

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

cheehee

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

Suspected is the key word here. At a guess your spine was cleared at the A&E and was muscular pain/discomfort??

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise in advance........

Sure call an ambulance if someone is injured, unconcious, bleeding etc but any time someone comes off a bike??

CdrJake

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

Suspected is the key word here. At a guess your spine was cleared at the A&E and was muscular pain/discomfort??

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise in advance........

Sure call an ambulance if someone is injured, unconcious, bleeding etc but any time someone comes off a bike??

If it's a simple bail off your bike then perhaps not, but if you come off at the hands of a motorist then I would say get it check by a crew.

The last time I came off my bike it was because I swerved to avoid a child that ran into a road. I had sereve road rash up the back of my legs and my backside. I didn't want an ambulance to be called because I hadn't been hit by anything. NGale insisted and it was just as well, I was in A & E for two hours having the wounds irrigated before being transfered to Derriford Hospital, Defence Medicine department over night because it was through I had lacerated muscle in the process of the fall.

Sleeping on your front all night is very uncomfortable by the way.

snailracer

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

The advice from the Highway Code, various insurance companies and police websites is that an ambulance & police should be called whenever there is "injury", they don't say "serious injury". That's because random members of the public can't be relied upon to recognise serious injury - it's tricky enough for medically-trained people.

CdrJake

snailracer wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

The advice from the Highway Code, various insurance companies and police websites is that an ambulance & police should be called whenever there is "injury", they don't say "serious injury". That's because random members of the public can't be relied upon to recognise serious injury - it's tricky enough for medically-trained people.

From the stories I have heard from NGale the public can't even be relied upon to recgonise someone who is conscious and breathing :shock:

oxoneil

FeynmanC wrote:

It seems to be a common occurance - unless the poster wakes up with ambulance and police in attendence, that we are not calling the police when we are knocked off and injured.

Im sure i was told when I was doing my driving test that, should I be involved in an accident and there were injuries, I should not move the car (unless it was in danger of causing greater injury) and the police MUST be called.

Can someone clarify this, as maybe this needs to be drummed into cyclists to help avoid some of these problems.

I work for TVP (as a police officer) and we go to ALL injury RTCs. Legally you are meant to give your details to anyone reasonably requesting them or report the accident within 24 hours.

downfader

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

Suspected is the key word here. At a guess your spine was cleared at the A&E and was muscular pain/discomfort??

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise in advance........

Sure call an ambulance if someone is injured, unconcious, bleeding etc but any time someone comes off a bike??

If it's a simple bail off your bike then perhaps not, but if you come off at the hands of a motorist then I would say get it check by a crew.

The last time I came off my bike it was because I swerved to avoid a child that ran into a road. I had sereve road rash up the back of my legs and my backside. I didn't want an ambulance to be called because I hadn't been hit by anything. NGale insisted and it was just as well, I was in A & E for two hours having the wounds irrigated before being transfered to Derriford Hospital, Defence Medicine department over night because it was through I had lacerated muscle in the process of the fall.

Sleeping on your front all night is very uncomfortable by the way.

Then sleep on someone elses

NGale

downfader wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

Suspected is the key word here. At a guess your spine was cleared at the A&E and was muscular pain/discomfort??

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I apologise in advance........

Sure call an ambulance if someone is injured, unconcious, bleeding etc but any time someone comes off a bike??

If it's a simple bail off your bike then perhaps not, but if you come off at the hands of a motorist then I would say get it check by a crew.

The last time I came off my bike it was because I swerved to avoid a child that ran into a road. I had sereve road rash up the back of my legs and my backside. I didn't want an ambulance to be called because I hadn't been hit by anything. NGale insisted and it was just as well, I was in A & E for two hours having the wounds irrigated before being transfered to Derriford Hospital, Defence Medicine department over night because it was through I had lacerated muscle in the process of the fall.

Sleeping on your front all night is very uncomfortable by the way.

Then sleep on someone elses

That's usually what he tries to do

downfader

In response to the OP...

Off'd myself last year, driver was fine at the scene and full ambulance/police jobby. Driver did a retraining course and Police gave me his mobi to get the insurance details. I chased this guy for a week, even getting family members to phone him (as he started to hang up on me when he heard my voice)

In the end I put it to him that unless he dealt with me I'd go to the Police again and say he was being difficult, and after all THIS is why he had the insurance - to let them deal with the matter. It took 6 more months of chasing the insurer as he failed to tell them of a) the accident, b) the retraining course, c) the ambulance and police involvement.

I got my money back through perciverance. You are entitled to recompense- which is where I disagree with Zachariah here - if we leave these things then people dont learn. His insurers need to know that he caused an accident and that means he is a risk through either distraction or impatience. The driver also should have reported the incident to the Police within 24 hours.

Zachariah

I completely agree with you, we absolutely should report any accident. Unfortunately the OP's case sounds very different from yours, which involved prompt notification of the emergency services.

Sadly, by cycling off then sending personal letters requesting compensation, the OP has almost certainly done more harm to his case than good. He has no witnesses and no material link connecting the driver to the damage done to his person and property. This is one instance where, if the driver refuses to co-operate, pursuing legal action will very likely be pointless.

downfader

Zachariah wrote:

I completely agree with you, we absolutely should report any accident. Unfortunately the OP's case sounds very different from yours, which involved prompt notification of the emergency services.

Sadly, by cycling off then sending personal letters requesting compensation, the OP has almost certainly done more harm to his case than good. He has no witnesses and no material link connecting the driver to the damage done to his person and property. This is one instance where, if the driver refuses to co-operate, pursuing legal action will very likely be pointless.

With regards the second paragraph it isnt always down to the person hit to determine if they are fine. They may well be in shock, concussed etc and it is the other parties job to make sure that they act accordingly. Sounds to me as if this didnt happen and the driver neglected his duty here.

chuckcork

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

With that one, my 2p worth...on a club run, guy comes off by running into a clubmate at lights. Hurt? Not that badly, so walks to hospital with a few others. Turns out on inspection he'd dislocated his hand (maybe never be able to fully close it) and broke his shoulder (surgery a few weeks ago, now on physio).

I've personally broken my arm/little finger, separately broken ribs etc and not thought much of it, its only after a few hours and adrenaline wears off and the pain sets in you know you really are injured.

An ambulance is a case of better safe than sorry.

shouldbeinbed

CdrJake wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

Think about it, you may be able to get up and walk around afterwards, but do you know what damage you may have done?

Through my own stupidity of thinking I was ok after a collision on my bike I ended up being boarded and collared with a suspected back injury the next morning because I couldn't move my legs properly.

I've posted this somewhere else too. After a car crash, I walked round with broken vertibrae in my neck for over a week before the pain got too excruciating and my assumption that it was just muscular was proved wrong, to my long term detriment.

my take on it now is that I'm not medically qualified to know if it is an emergency or me being a soft tart so I'll call out the people that do know. It won't be the most trivial incident they ever get called to even if it is just bruises.

el_presidente

chuckcork wrote:

cheehee wrote:

CdrJake wrote:

I'm afraid I have learned over the years to insist on an ambulance being called if I come off my bike at the hands of another person, sometimes it is the only way they see the seriousness of what has happened.

.

Really?? :shock:

I always thought they were an emergency service.........

With that one, my 2p worth...on a club run, guy comes off by running into a clubmate at lights. Hurt? Not that badly, so walks to hospital with a few others. Turns out on inspection he'd dislocated his hand (maybe never be able to fully close it) and broke his shoulder (surgery a few weeks ago, now on physio).

I've personally broken my arm/little finger, separately broken ribs etc and not thought much of it, its only after a few hours and adrenaline wears off and the pain sets in you know you really are injured.

An ambulance is a case of better safe than sorry.

Yes bit there is a difference between going to A&E under your own steam, which is a sensible precaution, and calling an ambulance which imho if you can walk and don't have a head injury is a waste of a precious resource.

mrushton

Always call the emergency services simply because you cannot determine your injuries. Adrenaline stays in the system until you feel safe/warm/secure then you get the pain/panic attack/more pain/shivers etc. That's why you can often get up and walk around immedately afterwards. Always go thro' the legal process since it's surprising how drivers memories change some hours/days later.

Sailing7

Thanks for all posts and advice. As a member of the CTC I shall be pursuing my claim using Russel Jones & Walker.

Funny how on Saturday, after my original post I finally received a letter from the driver who apologised for not contacting me sooner - he's recently moved house!

In his words he can remember the incident in which I went into the hedge in order to avoid hitting his car as we both entered Weston Lane - that was very gallant of me not to want to scratch his car? But now he's surprised to receive my letter requesting compensation and is going to have to take advice on it all....

I'm pretty much resigned to getting nothing from him. My resolve is to carry around with me a laminated list of all the things you should and should not when you get knocked off and hope I never need to use it.....

merkin

If I am reading your post correctly, you were cycling along a road and were attempting to turn left, into a side road. The car driver was travelling along the same road as you, but in the opposite direction, and wanted to turn right into the same side road.
If that is correct then surely you had right of way and even if you had been going straight on then you would have t-boned him? If you had turned left you would have collided with him. As it was he made an error of judgement causing you to take evasive action to avoid a collision, he is liable. Simple. Please don't let it go.
I accept accidents happen but we all have to take responsibility for our mistakes and hold our hands up when we get things wrong. This driver is no different, hopefully he may yet co-operate but I think it is time for professional help to ease things along.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.

bails87

The problem is that there are no witnesses, and no evidence that the car in question was actually involved in the 'incident'.

Sailing7

Merkin, you are reading me correctly. Now I'm paranoid whenever I approach a junction with traffic joining from my right - it's as though I'm invisible. Three times since visiting the hedge I've had drivers join my road and had to avoid them.

And bails87 you're right - no witnesses means it's just his word against mine. But at least he's written to me now admitting to remembering the incident and stopping - I'm sure the legal guys will be able to make something of it.....