What are your perceptions of trail centres?

docthelog

Hello fellow mountain bike riders

I’m currently doing my dissertation on the subject of trail centres and rider perceptions of them. I’m posting this question on the forum as a preliminary study so I can formulate questions for my interviews. So please don’t hesitate and say how you feel about trail centres.

What are your main reasons for using trail centres? (E.g. guaranteed good experience? No need to organise a trip? Enjoy the way they ride/flow etc? Experience several features such as burmed corners and table tops, that would not be found easily in the natural environment, Convenience).

Please don’t reply yes or no, good or bad answers I need to know your ideas and why you feel that way.

Thanks for your time, effort and help, docthelog

supersonic

They seem to have introduced a new breed of rider, and even a new breed of bike. Good for the sport as more people are taking it up, but I feel many think this is the main part of MTBing when it isn't. Quite a few riders have asked 'I want to get into MTBing, what bike do I need for the trail centres' and have even heard people say to me that they don't do MTB because they live too far from a trail centre!

Now the former is acceptable, as some people just want to get home from work, sling the bike in the car, and go to a place where there are facilties, well maintained and drained trails and know what to expect. The latter is a shame, as there is so much natural riding about, and a lot local to many people that they don't even know exists. Even the first group should explore a bit ;-)

However I think the majority of riders do view them as simply a different way of getting their kicks and a useful adjunct to the sport. I just feel that new and novice riders should be aware that there is more to MTBing than trail centres, and some shops don't help matters by trying to sell 6 inch travel bikes to everyone that mentions them. Some magazines don't help either. That said, the centres do vary in difficulty, which is a good thing.

Regarding obstacles, there is an 'inbetween' - mostly natural trails which have the trail builders that groom the trees and maybe add the odd jump and berm. A place like this would be Wharncliffe - many natural trails, some totally natural - but some that have been crafted, especially the DH runs. No trail centre though. Armies of trail builders go out every weekend to maintain trails.

pte1643

I think SS has given a good perception.

I'll just add...

The trail centre is also a "Safe Option" in that you know you're unlikely to get lost and/or get caught in any "Right of Way" arguements.

P-Jay

I'm a big fan. They work in so many ways. I live in Cardiff so Cwmcarn and Afan as only short drives.

It's like concentrated MTB, I totally understand the allure of 'going natural' but my friends and I love the way we can go to Cwmcarn, not worry about getting lost, or riding for hours through woods on little sheep trails. Its BOSCH - 1.5 hours (depending on how long we cock about on the freeride or loop sections) and back where you started. This is a big seller for my mates who have families to think about, it's not fair on their families to go out without a real sense of when you'll be back.

There's no hour spent plugging along a featureless path to get to 'some jumps someone’s built in the woods' there's jumps, drops, berms, tabletops etc etc and you know they've been built by pros so they won’t collapse underneath you.

If you have a nasty crash, the emergency people / FC know EXACTLY where you are, or as good as.

We can also make a bit of a day of it. My perfect day, middle of summer, head down Glyncorrwg, lap of White's or the Wall, have a shower after if you like, have a poke around Skyline looking at shiny MTB stuff, jacket spud and a cider in the Drop-Off

Yes, I’m a trail yuppie, I love to rock up to the TC, wrapped in posh riding clobber and the latest riding trinkets and huff and puff my 6” FS to the top and ‘nail it’ down – and I don’t care. LOL

There’s been loads of threads about Trail Centres, the forum seem in two very strict camps. ‘Natural’ riders and ‘Trail Centre’ riders and never the twain shall meet it seems. Some argue as TC types are big wooses and TC’s are nature sanitised and designed to look tougher than they are, others argue that you just don’t find the sort of big obstacles you get on a man-made trail in nature and they should stick to talking about lightweight XC bikes and Kendal Mint Cake. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Raymondavalon

+1 on SS's rundown, but I'll add:

Convenience for the fact that there is secure parking, established routes, facilities such as food and bathrooms. Most have a decent bike shop and in some instances a pressure wash facility to de mud the bikes before heading home.

supersonic

There's no hour spent plugging along a featureless path to get to 'some jumps someone’s built in the woods' there's jumps, drops, berms, tabletops etc etc and you know they've been built by pros so they won’t collapse underneath you.

It isn't always like that though. And I have seen bigger obstacles and drops in nature compared to manmade stuff.

The other type of riding is the big long day out in the peaks or lakes - not many obstacles as such, but huge descents, big climbs, the scenery and lots of rocks!

Torres

My tuppenc: Trail centres are probably one of the key things that will lead to the expansion of mountain biking as a sport in the UK, they offer rides for all abilities, that require little in the way of navigational skill and give the chance to meet new people on the trails.

On the other hand they are not the be all and end all of mountain biking. Sometimes, an OS map and a mountain bike is all you need for a brilliant days riding. I'm lucky, i live in the lake distrit, there's plenty of amazing naural riding on my doorstep, some of them better than anything a trail centre could offer, mainly becuase some days i like to test my navigation, test my limits, and be on my own.

scale20

I 'll choose a natural 'mountain' trail any day over a trail centre. I was bought up mountain biking on wild trails with having Snowdonia on my back step. You can ride the same wild trail for years however everytime you ride it the terrain may have changed a litttle due to whatever mother nature throws at it and it will and does catch you out

I do use trail centers, I find them convenient for a good training ride and they do bring on your skills well too. I have found that the more you get to know the trail centre trails you reach a ceiling of your riding skill, for example, I have ridden the beast hundreds of times and you know whats coming so you tend to switch off a little. However, on Saturday I rode the Tarw for the first time in years, totaly forgot what that trail was like and it made me work for it.

I think that some riders are in their comfort zone when it comes to trail centres unlike wild rides where you pack for the day and once your out there you have to take what the land throws at you.

Both types of riding has its plus points, but its a case of whether you want to be stuck in a forest or fire road for 30k's or have the goal of hitting the mountains and bagging peaks. I must admit that if the weather is howling, I would rather be in a forest than up to 800m up a mountain, it aint nice up there

lawman

i think theyre good fun but ive never really been seriously scared or tested at a trail centre. its all fairly easy even black routes tbh. for me the most challenging stuff is natural riding, man simply cannot recreate natures fury. any descent in the peaks is better than any trail centre.

jairaj

I like trail centres as its a easy way to go out for a ride and get an almost guaranteed good ride. You just turn up with your bike and follow the signs and have fun. as said before hard to get lost and if you need emergency help its relatively easy to get it.

Im not saying its better than natural stuff, its not, its just different. I would love to ride more natural stuff but where I live there is only a few smallish woods and don't have regular riding buddies. This makes it hard for me to go out on my own riding natural stuff. Also due to my lack of adventuring Im not fully confident in my map reading and navigation skills which im sure will improve with practice.

I don't mind travelling far to locations its just there are too many "what ifs?" for me to ride on my own in a strange place. Its for this reason I like trail centres it makes cycling easier and more accessible. Just follow the signs and only have to worry about trying not to fall off.

lawman

i find trail centres tend to flow better and its very mood dependant which i prefer, cos some days you just cant beat some big berms and some tabletops plus you have facilities and the like which makes things more comfortable

Fully

For me trail centres are a good introduction to an area, especially if you just don't have the time to plan your rides down to the last detail. Exploring trails with a map can be brilliant, finding all those little gems for the first time. There is also the flip side of the coin though, in that you plan for a bridleway and end up on an unrideable muddy field that hasn't been a usable trail since Dick Turpin was at large.

I have missed trail centres since moving to Germany, xc trail centres simply don't seem to exist over here in the same way that they do in the UK. There are waymarked "mtb" trails all over the hilly areas, but they tend to be fireroad hell in most cases. The proper trail infrastructure over here has a definite DH/FR slant. XC trail centres over here would've helped me a lot in getting to know areas like the Harz Mountains, where there is loads of great natural riding, but you have to find it first, which is fine if you've got time, but otherwise....

Given the choice though i would rather ride natural trails that i know have everything that i want, as stated trail centres do tend to feel over manicured at times.

ravey1981

In my opinion trail centres are a great introduction to mtbing and are a good "safe option" I too am lucky to live in the countryside (yorkshire dales) so have many miles of natural trails all around me. For me there is nothing better than getting out into the wilds, slogging up a huge hill knowing you have an amazing decent on the other side.

I'm also only five mins from the recently upgraded Gisburn Forest trails, and although they are good there isn't the same challenge involved compared to what i would call "real" mountain biking.

That being said trail centres are good for a quick blast or a night ride for example.

I agree with what has been said about trail centres becoming the focus of many riders - theres thousands of miles of challenging riding, amazing singletrack, technical descents etc out there - you just have to go and find it (or get a guide book)

Northwind

I do a lot of so-called natural riding (it's too long-winded to say non-purpose-built, even though almost none of it is actually natural) and I do like it, but tbh I don't generally think it's a patch on a good trail centre. there are exceptions of course, but generally speaking you do a lot more riding for a lot less great bits. it's like the difference between road driving and a trackday to me, sure I know where there are good corners out there in the real world but it's so much easier to just go to a track. (and the few places in the UK which I know are better than most tracks are in the middle of nowhere )

I think if I had my own transport I'd do a lot less natural riding, to me it's just second best most of the time. Though I do love the feeling of just being out there away from it- I can ride from my house into the Pentlands regional park and it's like being in another world. But I could ride up there for a week and do less brilliant riding than I can in a day at glentress or kirroughtree. Riding's never bad but sometimes it's less good...

ravey1981 wrote:

I'm also only five mins from the recently upgraded Gisburn Forest trails, and although they are good there isn't the same challenge involved compared to what i would call "real" mountain biking.

Yeah, but then isn't Gisburn just a red and a blue?

ravey1981

Northwind wrote:

Yeah, but then isn't Gisburn just a red and a blue?

Its got some new black "options" but theres nothing there thats at all difficult, I've also ridden most of the welsh trail centres and also glentress. Dont get me wrong I do like riding trail centres but there isnt the sense of achievement that you get from when for example you conquer a big climb or nail a natural downhill.

Im into snowboarding too and i guess you could compare trail centres v natural to on piste and off piste boarding (or skiing if youre that way inclined) You just get great sense of freedom with off piste boarding and natural riding. In my experience a trail centre cant provide that.

Its the not knowing whats going to be around the corner, over the crest bit that i like about natural riding...

Northwind

Mmm, but again there's nothing particularily difficult on the marked trails at glentress- the black's more dark red except for the 3 new, seperate sections. Never ridden in wales myself so can't really comment on that.

fitch28

i mainly use trail centres. the biggest reason for this is that with a full time job, a child and other commitments i have to try and squeeze as much fun as i can into as short a space of time as possible. i suppose if i had loads of free time i would choose to venture out into the wild a bit more as it wouldn't matter as much if the riding turned out to be disappointing.

Also if i'm taking my daughter, with a trail centre i know what to expect (roughly) for her and whether she'll be up to riding a trail or not.

Having the facilities at many trail centres is also a big bonus. being a girl, peeing in the bushes is not always the most attractive option!

ravey1981

I just cant help feeling that some of the trail centre with all their berms and jumps etc are just over inflated bmx tracks.

Im all for getting more people into the sport but more and more it seems to be that people are buying into an image. When I do ride at trail centres you see people riding 160 travel bikes with pads all over theyre body...going for the extreme sport look... when in reality theyre just riding over nicely graded tracks and carefully thought out "trail features" usually with a sign saying "look out here comes a bump" Its all a bit sanitised i think.

At the end of the day it comes down to individual viewpoints, I'm pretty spoilt in that theres loads of riding on my doorstep...if i had to get in the car and drive for an hour just to get a ride in i would probably opt for the "sure thing" that riding a trail centre is.

Northwind

ravey1981 wrote:

I just cant help feeling that some of the trail centre with all their berms and jumps etc are just over inflated bmx tracks.

Im all for getting more people into the sport but more and more it seems to be that people are buying into an image. When I do ride at trail centres you see people riding 160 travel bikes with pads all over theyre body...going for the extreme sport look... when in reality theyre just riding over nicely graded tracks and carefully thought out "trail features" usually with a sign saying "look out here comes a bump" Its all a bit sanitised i think.

Yeah, I actually agree with all of that. I mean, I don't think anyone would deny that Spooky Woods and Good Game at Glentress really are the mtb equivalent of BMX tracks. A bit rougher but that's it. They're still ace but they're not what I file in my head as "proper mountain biking". I wear pads at glentress but only because I'm always going too fast for my skill But then you've got your kirroughtrees and drumlanrig, or the big black at glentress, all of which are basically purpose built XC rather than, as you say, a path with an occasional feature on. (and Kirroughtree's surface is smooth as a baby's bottom, far smoother than glentress yet it doesn't feel as processed)

Buuuuuut, there's a lot of "proper XC" which is much the same, only perhaps without the trail features- a lot of people go mountain biking but really do nothing more extreme than my driveway, and whether they do it at trail centres or in the hills doesn't really matter. (my brother loves XC riding but described a section on a local trail as "impossible" and didn't believe I could ride down it til I sent him a video of me riding down it, then back up it, then dropping the whole thing ) Basically mountain biking is different things to different people, is my longwinded point.

Alex

Trail centres are a guaranteed good ride. No map. No planning. No finding a local. Pick up your bike, ride it, finish, eat cake. Sorted.

Let's put the "natural" thing to bed though? There is no natural riding unless you start forging your own route through fields. You're either riding fireroads or bridleways which are built to take vehicles/horses or you're riding singletrack which is ridden in/built by mountainbikers.
Those tracks might be more difficult/technical/unmolested than your garden variety trail centre, but that doesn't make it natural. It just means you're riding a trail that was meant for something else.


There seems to be a certain pomposity with some people over "natural" riding. There shouldn't be. Riding the peaks and lakes without seeing a managed trail in your life doesn't automatically make you a better mountainbiker than someone who's only ever ridden at trail centres. It just means you've got different goals when you set off for a ride.

One thing trail centres tend to have which you'll lack on your 'natural' ride is flow. Flow is something that downhillers go on about a lot, and more XC riders are beginning to understand with the proliferation of managed trail. Flow is IT. Flow is not a straight line or a fireroad. Flow is not a super tech uphill. Flow is not an uber-steep downill. Flow is threading together corner after corner after corner with drops and jumps and tricky little bits and roots and rocks. Flow is relaxing in to the bike and letting it fly. Flow is hitting that corner knowing that there isn't a horse or walker or a fallen tree just around it. Flow is fun.

Coed-y, sanitised though it has been, has flow. Afan has Flow. Some bits of Llandegla have flow. Glentress has flow. Innerleithen's I-line has flow.

Sure, I've ridden the odd lake district bridleway that flowed, but stuff like that never really compares to stuff that was built with fun in mind.


The whole "natural"/trailcentre debate is kinda like going out to get drunk.
Your natural rider could drink real ale all evening. It's going to take several long drawn out pints before he's wobbling. He gets to claim that he's drinking a man's drink. Chances are he's going to give up before he's really properly drunk.

Your trail centre rider meanwhile prefers a modern cocktail. Jager and coke. Ale bloke will take the piss but it's a nice taste and after a few low volume drinks he's everyone's best friend.

Your downhiller meanwhile is at the bar, ordering shots of absinthe.

TheNorthernTrain

Nice point alex, maybe a little picky on the natural definition, but having said that, i was doing a trail ages ago in the dales and there was a section that was pretty much choosing your own route through field going downhill and it was the greatest feeling in the world, bombing across an open grass field choosing your own line over the thousands of natural humps in the field, many of which you can get great air off.

That was riding, i have since only been at dalby due to laziness of not wanting to go out not knowing where im going again. Its never given that thrill, but as mentioned by someone else, its a large amount of effort for very little reward.

Slogging up hills, across unridable terrain for hours cos you got lost just for something great which only lasts all of 2 minutes, if that, just removes the motivation, for me at least.

But im in no position to comment on natural vs man made cos i havn't ridden around enough. I just wanted to say about that field, god it was good.

Northwind

Alex wrote:

Your downhiller meanwhile is at the bar, ordering shots of absinthe.

And your allrounder is at home, with the downhiller's daughter, stone cold sober and having the best time of them all

Alex

Given the age of your average downhill rider (early/mid 20s), your Allrounder is a child molester.

Northwind

Hey, the allrounder's not choosy, in some cases it'll be the downhiller's mums.

(from what I saw at Fort William, the average downhiller was mid thirties, with some being a lot older... Not racers, just guys who like riding, with disposable incomes to throw about)

Alex

Fort William isn't the best place to look at rider demographics. Expensive to get to, expensive to ride there, requires expensive equipment and tends to require expensive time to travel up there.

24 is approximately the average age of membership of Racersguild, the country's only DH specific mountainbike club.

weeksy59

Trail centres are to me what Trackdays are to motorbikes.

They're an organised structured location with facilities where you get the 'best' of the techincal riding and the facilities that make it nice.

Time saving doesn't come into it as they're all MILES from me, about 2 hours+ each way.

For me it's an 'event' more than just a ride. The banter, the laughs and jokes, the spills and the multitudes of terrain.

No-where i've ever ridden 'natural' brings the same variations in terrain/incline/tracks as Whites level. Other places may have some up, some down and some XC, but it's impossible to string it all togetehr in the same way for hours.

I only do TC's about 3-4 times a year but i really do enjoy them

bails87

I live around here (I'm not silly enough to put my address on the forum, I just picked a random road on the same side of town!) it's nice and green, but flat and with no bridleways.

The problem I have is that I only have a couple of riding buddies, and they don't live local to me, and are fairly inexperienced. So I wouldn't feel too confident riding off into unfamiliar mountains with them. I only meet up with them if I'm riding at Cannock Chase (Follow The Dog). It takes me an hour or so to get there and is the nearest place for decent riding. Anywhere local (ie out of the door riding) is rubbish towpath and flat bridleway/footpath stuff. So once I've gone to the hassle of loading up the car, I don't see the point in driving 45 minutes to somewhere hit and miss, when I can drive an hour to somewhere guaranteed to be good. If I had real 'non-trail centre' riding nearby then I'm sure I'd use it, and wouldn't go to Cannock so often.

But a 3 hour drive 'Oop North', to ride 'into the unknown', e.g. could be good, could be rubbish fireroad and congested, boggy bridleway, doesn't appeal to me. Especially when I don't know where I'm going. If I make the journey, and it's as rubbish as my local riding then I'll be annoyed. Not nearly as annoyed as if I got lost in the mountains and ended up with Hypothermia though! Neither of those things will happen at a trail centre.

With some local knowledge I'd be up for 'off piste' riding, but it's not something I'd do on my own, and seeing as I usually have no choice but to ride on my own, that's a bit of an obstacle.


I think the people who moan about 'trail centre riders' are those who live in areas with trail centre standard riding outside their front door. Not everyone is so lucky. If, because of travel time, there's only one day a week when you can do any proper riding (I couldnt get home from work, load up the car and drive to Cannock/Llandegla/Thetford and back on an evening) then you don't want to waste time with the "spirit of MTBing", you want to go and enjoy yourself. When you've got great natural riding within riding distance, and 3 trail centres within a 20 minute drive then 'swinging both ways' is easy. When it's boring flat towpaths, or a trail centre, there's only one option I'd choose.

tsenior

for me riding out into the hills is a bit of a 'means to an end' the end being getting out there, away from it all and into remote, beautifull scenery, as well as enjoying the flowy fast bits and technical challanges which are thrown up randomly and without warning; as these arnt 'designed' to be ridden i think they can offer more of a challenge than built obsticales: the downside being that sometimes they cant be ridden (by me anyway).

trail centres for me are more of an end in themselves, and as alex says, its hard to find the same flow outside them.

by the soud of the comments, folk who are lucky enough to live in areas with lots of natural (non-purpose-built) riding and who can ride out of their gate into it reckon thats the best,.

Conversely, for those who dont (or believe they dont) have this option and have to get in their car and drive to find routes need to guarantee a good ride once they get there, hence their preference for TCs

tsenior

Bails87: great mids think alike!

I also hadent considered the confidence thing, I guess if your used to the hills (so right gear, confident navigator, enough experience to know what to do when things go wrong) then you're more likey to get up into the lonely, wild places where the best off piste riding is.

MrChuck

As Alex says:

Trail centres are a guaranteed good ride. No map. No planning. No finding a local. Pick up your bike, ride it, finish, eat cake. Sorted.

And sometimes that's exactly what you want. It can be a bit more social too, especially if you're in a group of varying abilities/speed. Also, as a bit of a Wendy, I sometimes like knowing that everything is rideable.

That's not to say 'natural' stuff is no good, but sometimes you don't want an all-day mission, perhaps with fairly frequent map stops where you might actually end up not doing that much interesting riding. Sometimes of course being out in the Peak or wherever all day has its own attractions, as does not knowing what you're getting and maybe being tested a bit more, but sometimes you just want a guaranteed good thrash round with a bacon butty at the end.

Also living in the Midlands pretty much everything is a couple of hours away so since most trips are basically full days out you want a good ride for all your travelling.

I wish more of them were easily accessible by train though!

Just noticed I've said "sometimes" a lot there, which I guess sums it up for me.

Anonymous

I agree mostly with what P-Jay said. Where i live at the moment are some decent bridleways, byways etc which, if they haven't been turned over and ruined by horses and 4x4 drivers, are fine. You can put together a decent ride with some road sections no problem.

I do love trail centres though. No dicking about, just arrive and ride in any weather. Brechfa at the weekend was ace.