I am IMMUNE! Wah hah hah!

Northwind

77ric wrote:

yeah well it's probably not going to kill you, but then the pig flu is probably not going to kill you either.

I'm not worried about it either but I'd feel a right knob if I refused the vaccine then carked it Plus my mum would be annoyed. So I'm hedging my bets here.

pte1643 wrote:

The jab currently being offered to NHS staff is Pandemrix. This is specifically designed to combat H1N1 and won't offer any protection against Seasonal Flu. Similarly the Seasonal Flu jab will not guard against the Pig Flu.

He didn't say otherwise- what he said was that the vaccine is similiar to the normal "winter flu" vaccines, which it is.

P-Jay

Had it already, and C-diff this year - germs, I shit 'em

yoohoo999

the more people that actually bother to get vaccinated, the less need there is for me to get vaccinated!!

simples! 8)

Alex

We need a ~95% uptake for full blown herd immunity

I'm trying my best though.

Muddy.Bail

BlackSpur wrote:

Muddy.Bail wrote:

doesn't become effective until 14 days after the injection :roll:

You can sneeze on me as much as you like as of tomorrow then

Lol, I had mine more than 14 days ago

P-Jay

20% immuenity!!!!! If I get again I'll be pissed right off! It was horrible, but so it seasonal flu (not man flu).

But do I think it would kill me? Nah. I understand this odd statistic that it's speading quicker through young-fit types. But I can't help thinking there's an outside factor that's effecting it, rather than it's some kind of robinhood illness that only attacks the fit.

Young people hang out in big groups more. I'm not that young at 32, but about 8 mates and I all caught it at the same time on a stag-do in Bournemouth, lots of busy bars and nightclubs and strip joints, plus 2 or 3 people to a room is the reason we got it rather than we're a bunch of mountain bikers (well most are).

I wonder if there's stats on the amount of single people getting it V married ones....

About 25 guys were at this stag do. The ones who got really ill were all single, the married-with-kids ones were largely fine (or at worst, felt a bit 'off' for a few days) we put this down to children basically being gigantic germ banks and their parents immue systems being stronger.

I'm diabetic and I've had a major truma and 2 operations in the last 6 months so I'm meant to be getting vacinated - but I've heard sod all.

Joe_Pineapples

I just started back at work this week after a week off with the swine flu. It also meant that I missed the Innerleithen uplift day on the 15th that I'd paid my £32 for.
My misery was compounded when my two friends called from the uplift bus to tell me that they were sitting with Steve Peat and Josh Bryceland.

On the plus side, one of my friends fell and broke two ribs. I love karma :twisted:

Northwind

On the subject of "You're not likely to die of it"- you're also not very likely to die of a head injury when mountain biking, do you wear a helmet?

fourcrossjohn wrote:

like the flu vacine the swin vaccine causes some of the symptons within the body as the boys defenses learn how to deal with the flu

I got a very pleasant mild euphoria going on, it was great... Like being just ever so slightly high. Very nice.

stickygreen

I am immune without having to have a jab shame tho i love needles :twisted:

ramemtbers

okay then your not scary......
my sister had swine flu when i was away on holiday with my bike in wales. hehehe. how lucky....

77ric

Alex wrote:

From the BBC based on data from DoH.

Alex i know your using the bbc figure in good faith but sorry but i'm going to call shenanigans on them, not saying that they are false but based on 377 people out of a possible 760,000 - 1,580,000 infections (figures from the DoH, which has a pretty wide margin for error) is a very small sample. An actual number of hospitalisations versus infections would be better, but as the advice is to stay away from your G.P then that would be very hard to gauge.

i'm aware that the affected demographics are different from the seasonal flu, but that doesn't change the fact that the swine flu is generally less dangerous infection than the seasonal flu.

[url=http://www.hpa.org.uk/HPA/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/1243928258560/]Health Protection Agency[/url] wrote:

Summary for 26 November 2009 (Week 48 )
• Pandemic influenza activity is variable across the UK.
• In week 47 (ending 22 November), the weekly influenza/ILI consultation rate increased slightly in England while it decreased or remained stable in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
• The National Pandemic Flu Service (NPFS) continues to issue antiviral drugs to people in England with an influenza-like illness who call or log onto the internet site. The number of assessments and antiviral collections through this service have increased slightly over the past week.
• Interpretation of data to produce estimates on the number of new cases continues to be subject to a considerable amount of uncertainty with the move to the National Pandemic Flu Service (NPFS). HPA modelling gives an estimate of 46,000 (range 23,000 – 99,000) new cases in England in week 47. The estimated number of new cases has decreased in most regions and age groups.
• The main influenza virus circulating in the UK continues to be the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 strain, with few influenza H1 (non-pandemic), H3 and B viruses detected. Twenty-two of 3732 pandemic viruses tested have been confirmed to carry a mutation which confers resistance to the antiviral drug oseltamivir; three are phenotypically resistant to the drug but retain sensitivity to zanamivir. Possible person-person transmission of resistant virus has occurred in an outbreak on a hospital ward.
• The majority of pandemic influenza cases continue to be mild. The cumulative number of deaths reported due to pandemic (H1N1) 2009 in the UK is 240. There was a total of 1463 new patients hospitalised in England with suspected pandemic influenza in the week from 19 November to 25 November, a decrease from 1483 in the previous week. The hospitalisation rates have increased in the under 5-year age group, but have decreased in most other age groups recently.
• The UK pandemic influenza vaccination programme continues in people at high risk for severe disease and health-care workers. For further information see the Department of Health website.
• According to the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, by 25 November, 7909 deaths due to pandemic influenza had been reported globally. According to the World Health Organisation (20 November), influenza activity continues to intensify across parts of North America and much of Europe, however there are signs that the disease may have peaked in some areas of the Northern hemisphere. Virus mutations have been detected in Norway in two fatal cases and one severe case but investigations suggest that the mutation is not widespread. Canada has withdrawn a batch of pandemic vaccine due to higher than expected adverse reactions

the above contains a helluva lot of info but very inaccurate, while there has been deaths from swine flu with no UHPs a large proportion of the deaths involve underlying health problems, there is a list on the white haven news site of reported deaths.

i'm not saying to anyone don't get the vaccine, far from it. if you are offered it the vaccine and you feel you want to have it then have it, as i said before i wont not because of any belief that i won't get the swine flu, nor that if i do get it that i'll need to be hospitalised nor out of some conspiracy theory about what the government have put in the vaccine to control us :roll: but because i believe that the chances of the swine flu killing me are pretty slim, probably less chance than winning the lottery.

i just think that there is a helluva lot of false (or at very least very inaccurate) information been put out there, granted mostly by the media as usual.

Alex

The data on infection rates is actually pretty good. It's not judged on the people calling GPs, since they're being told not to, but on the number of new cases presenting to the Swine flu helpline/online service resulting in Tamiflu being dispensed.

Tamiflu is next to useless in mild cases, but the carrot has allowed the DoH to get very accurate week-on-week infection statistics.

As I said earlier, I'm not some numpty reading up on this on the beeb, this is my job.

I agree the sample used in that chart is very small, but the data released to the BBC is limited. Our unreleased week-on-week statistics bear out the general gist of the BBC's chart.

1,400 hospitalisations due to swine flu in the past week may not sound like a lot to you, but given that in July of this year there were only 2,400 intensive care/high dependency beds in England, and that having a single case of Swine Flu in your ITU ties up multiple beds due to the needs of isolation and you'll begin to understand why DoH officials are pooing masonry.

77ric

Alex wrote:

As I said earlier, I'm not some numpty reading up on this on the beeb, this is my job.

Alex
sorry if it sounds like i'm making out you are a numpty, thats not my intention.

neither am i disagreeing with the hospitalisation figures either, but the perceived danger of death, from the swine flu.

the reason i posted the full quote from the HPA and included the link was so that other readers of this thread can see the number and facts for themselves, there is a helluva lot of poor information being put out, for people to judge for themselves.

as for the data on infections being pretty good 760,000 - 1,580,00 i one fucking wide margin of error, i'd be like going to fort bill and ending up in essex

Alex

Danger of death from swine flu is low.

Danger of total health service meltdown resulting in preventable deaths of other patients is high. Hence the vaccination campaign.

ramemtbers

are the goverment worried that we might all end up looking like this....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hy3tZuh2AOk/S ... ne-FLu.jpg

hehehehe

Thewaylander

To be honest there are 5 cases of it becoming resistant to current cures anyways. you perventaive people are just gonna make it worse

ramemtbers

yes i agreee. learnt all about this for my biology exam.

Northwind

Thewaylander wrote:

To be honest there are 5 cases of it becoming resistant to current cures anyways. you perventaive people are just gonna make it worse

The resistant flu is resistant to Tamiflu, totally different issue from innoculation. (and inevitable with the way Tamiflu was used, but then it was rubbish anyway)

ramemtbers

my mate is getting the swine flu jab next week. i am tempted to look into getting it>

TomBeardsley

ramemtbers wrote:

really. didnt know that. i suppose the white blood cells need time to produce anti bodies to fight off the dead swine flu cells. quite clever really dont you think.

*i havent just recently done a gcse biology exam what you on about*

Humoral immuntiy relies on plasma cells making the antibody's when the pathogen is present within blood. If you relied on pre-made anti-bodies then every time you got a virus or infection, the amount if anti-bodies would build up over your lifespan until eventually there would be no space for red blood cells.

*I'm not doing AS level Biology if thats what your on about *

supersonic

Are these swine flu cases confirmed? Ie blood test to identify the strain?

Alex

Initially, yes. However, given that the labs take about two weeks to return a result on viral cultures, we stopped testing in the majority of non-hospitalised cases, apart from a few which are used to map the progress of the strains.

77ric

the figures come from some confirmed cases ie. those who went to doctors or where hospitalised, and lots of people phoning NHS24 or going to the website. problem with that is no doubt some people will have faked it to get the tamiflu incase the do get the pig flu, how many i don't know and wouldn't even hazard a guess. when bird flu was the big threat american pharmacies were shifting the stuff by crate loads. the question is how scared is the general population of the UK.

pte1643

supersonic wrote:

Are these swine flu cases confirmed? Ie blood test to identify the strain?

Alex wrote:

Initially, yes. However.....

.....we stopped testing in the majority of non-hospitalised cases

Our PCT stopped testing ages ago. If the presenting PT's tick enough boxes, then they have it!
I suspect most other areas deal with cases (or potential cases) in a similar way.

It's puting a MASSIVE strain on us lot (Ambulance). We even get PT's calling 999 because they have the Flu, but have ALREADY been prescribed Tamiflu (or similar). :roll:

There are, of course, certain circumstances where this may be necessary, where people take a turn for the worse. But in most cases it's just a shoulder to cry on... NOT a 999 Emergency.

77ric

while i'm not going to concern myself with catching swine flu. what i really concerning is

Alex wrote:

... given that in July of this year there were only 2,400 intensive care/high dependency beds in England...

now in scotland that would seem like more than enough intensive care/high dependency beds given the population of approx 5 million people, surely in england with an approximate population of over 51 million, well i understand why the DoH and sh*ting bricks.

Alex

Scotland's NHS is in a very similar situation with regards to high ratio nursing beds.

The number of adult ECMO machines (Which oxygenate and pump blood around a patient with total cardiac/respiratory failure, a common complication of serious manifestations of swine flu, allowing the heart and lungs to fight the infection and recover) is limited to the ~18ish and only at one three centres in England, one in Scotland.

The pressure on the health service generated by this mostly mild illness is just unbelievably vast.

I feel very sorry for PTE. The ambulance service are increasingly called by patients who genuinely need a kick up the arse and to be told to MTFU, not an ambo driver who could be doing better things than reassuring people who have already sought advice from GPs/NHS direct/Hotlines etc.

Not to mention the fact that the aforementioned ambo driver has just been in contact with a suspected case of a very infectious virus, and will probably have to go straight from the waste of time call to a LOL with heart disease, asthma etc. The sort of people we don't want to get swine flu.

Stoo61

My immune system would destroy Swine Flu.....little pussy flu disease.

pte1643

Alex wrote:

I feel very sorry for PTE. The ambulance service are increasingly called by patients who genuinely need a kick up the ars* and to be told to MTFU, not an ambo driver who could be doing better things than reassuring people who have already sought advice from GPs/NHS direct/Hotlines etc.

Amen Bro'.

Our 3 EOC's (control rooms) handle approx 500 to 600 999 calls each, everyday.

The total figure in the recently published 2009 Annual Report was over 582 Thousand calls.

Less than 30% of these actually required a category A (8 minute) Response.

Alex

We had a middleaged patient phone up and demand an emergency appointment a few weeks ago on a monday. They had seen OOH twice over the weekend, and were issued treatment by OOH. They described the symptoms to the receptionist who asked the patient to phone back after 5 minutes. The GP spoke to the patient over the phone, is reviewed and said "This is non-urgent, book as routine". The patient books in for a routine appointment.

Two hours later, we get a phone call from a paramedic. The patient has called an ambulance, which has been listed as "Difficulty breathing", ie a Red call. The patient had a minor chest infection for which AB cover was correctly issued by OOH, but which the patient had only collected from the chemist that morning.

They'd been seen by two OOH doctors, had the symptoms reviewed by their family doctor in light of the OOH reports and reported symptoms, and STILL called out an emergency ambulance.

Needless to say, we cited irreparable breakdown of doctor/patient relationship and removed the patient as they clearly weren't interested in what the GP had to say. They got a nice letter telling them they had four weeks to seek a new GP and we sent them a leaflet detailing what the ambulance service was actually for.

We're told by the new GP that the aforementioned has since realised that you can have an ambulance on the door within five minutes, and it's a lot more convenient than having to go all the way to the GP's.

There's just no hope for some people.

pte1643

Alex wrote:

The patient has called an ambulance, which has been listed as "Difficulty breathing", ie a Red call.....

.....They'd been seen by two OOH doctors, had the symptoms reviewed by their family doctor in light of the OOH reports and reported symptoms, and STILL called out an emergency ambulance.

Just gotta hit one of them "Key-Words" and you get a Cat A Red response.

Problem is (for example) too many people nowadays are calling and stating SOB, a motor is dispatched and told to run Red to "x" address, crew arrive lugging 4 Tons of ALS equipment, only to be confronted with a cut finger (or similar)!!! :x

I fear we have gone off topic a bit. Sorry OP.