Thoughts on cycling "innovations"
Comments
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Smokin Joe wrote:I've got oversize bars because I mistakenly bought an oversize stem.
As for useless innovations, what about carbon bottle cages? Come on, they're just things, for Christ sake.
Maybe carbon cages aren't even innovations, let alone useless ones.0 -
The only reason I have CF bottle cages on my racing bike is for bling. Pure and simple.0
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Electronic shifting. "God I'm exhausted. All that shifting did me in on my ride today" An electric vibrating saddle would be something I would buy though.0
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Right... tapered headtube, increases stiffness and makes full carbon forks stronger because the bend from steerer to fork legs is less severe. Not really relevant for MTBing, a full 1.5" headtube is much more useful in that application.
OS: from MTBing, the increased strength:weight is great there. Presumably leads to a stiffer stem too! However it simply isn't necessary on a roadie...0 -
crankycrank wrote:Electronic shifting. "God I'm exhausted. All that shifting did me in on my ride today" An electric vibrating saddle would be something I would buy though.
Electronic shifting isn't about saving the rider energy, it's about improving shifting precision. It also has huge benefits for TT and tri riders as you can put shift buttons on the bull horns as well as the aero bars. And, there are benefits for riders with disabilities as you can put all the shift buttons on one side of the handlebars or even put them somewhere else on the bike.0 -
I'm still not convinced.
OOOH I know - what about those tribar end levers - that always go back to horizontal - for aero benefits after youve changed gear - and they're only £400 or so ? Bargain.0 -
Mister W wrote:crankycrank wrote:Electronic shifting. "God I'm exhausted. All that shifting did me in on my ride today" An electric vibrating saddle would be something I would buy though.
Electronic shifting isn't about saving the rider energy, it's about improving shifting precision. It also has huge benefits for TT and tri riders as you can put shift buttons on the bull horns as well as the aero bars.
Hmmm... so we can expect to see TT records being smashed due to the advent of electronic shifting can we? I don't think we will, because the 'huge' advantage is in fact 'tiny'. Point taken about disabled riders, but I doubt very much that Shimano had them particularly in mind during the development stage!0 -
No, I'm sure that wasn't what Shimano was thinking when they developed them but that's a handy side effect.
I suspect many people made the same comments as you when they devloped STI shifters but now every new road bike has them. Innovation generally starts at the top and trickles down so I can see electronbic shifting being a lot more common in the next 10 years.0 -
Not very scientific (sample of 2 and on different bikes) but my oversized bars and stem seem fatter and stiffer than my trad sized ones. Which is the reason they are shortly to be removed as I find them too harsh.
One innovation that has made a small but useful difference is the front loading stem, makes swapping stems a darn sight easier.0 -
Dimpled rims. Do they really make you go faster? Really? If I tot up all the 'time savings' on various components offered by Zipp, I could be a contender.0
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Innovations that I'm skeptical about, in no particular order:
1) Camelback water bottles
2) Carbon spokes
3) Weird curvy frame shapes; see recent usages of both aluminium hydroforming and carbon e.g. Pinarello Dogma
4) Intergrated seatposts
5) Chainstay brake mounts, yes looking at you Felt. It was rubbish when GT did it in the early 90's and it's still rubbish now.
6) Compact frames0 -
What about Oval with their "reverse bolt technology" basically you screw the stem on stem through to faceplate and not faceplate through to stem like normal. They claim it allows them to make all the fancy tri-bar options regardless of what type of bars you have (i.e. bars that take a more aero shape straight after the clamp so you cant fit most clamp on tribars/computers/lights). I'm sure they could still do their stuff with a normal style of stem......although I will admit that the bolt free look of their faceplates does look very nice!0
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Ceramic bearings? According to research bearing friction contributes less than 1% to cycling resistane - they may last longer but worth the price and have we had such a problem with stainless steel bearing???
I run a standard headset on one bike and a tapered 1.5 on the other no difference when at Epping or Thetford but take bikes to Afan and wow you feel the difference then'..all the bad cats in the bad hats..'0 -
carbonfiend wrote:I run a standard headset on one bike and a tapered 1.5 on the other no difference when at Epping or Thetford but take bikes to Afan and wow you feel the difference then
Yep on a mountain bike. Last time I checked the roads were still the same as they were a year ago. The prosecution rests.
Ah yes, integrated seatposts. Great for travelling and resale value. ;-)
Electronic shifting. For people who can't or won't set-up gears properly (* excluding the useful point about disabilities above)0 -
eh wrote:Innovations that I'm skeptical about, in no particular order:
1) Camelback water bottles
Very useful out walking in the hills rather than having a bottle out of reach in your rucksack, but can't see the benefits on a bike when your bottles are easily in reach.
Plus I hate carrying anything on my back on my bike.0 -
oversize is good science. makes things stiffer and less stress at the stem bar mount without flattening the lightweight alloy. the point about the fork crown sounds correct to me. stonger less stressed setup for carbon fibre. the steerer tube can be larger diameter,maybee full carbon steerer caused the need, i dont want it to break there-faceplant into road helmet no use. wavey frames are bullsh1t and look hideous. i think the idea of bb30 was to reduce the Q factor. not that ive had any trouble from outboard.
titanium bolts is a marketing scheme.as is muckoff bike cleaner.0 -
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Ollieda wrote:What about Oval with their "reverse bolt technology" basically you screw the stem on stem through to faceplate and not faceplate through to stem like normal. They claim it allows them to make all the fancy tri-bar options regardless of what type of bars you have (i.e. bars that take a more aero shape straight after the clamp so you cant fit most clamp on tribars/computers/lights). I'm sure they could still do their stuff with a normal style of stem......although I will admit that the bolt free look of their faceplates does look very nice!
These are for their tri bar fittingsyou get a stem face plate with the fittings on the stem so there is less clutter and a bit less weight (one clamp as opposed to three.Neil
Help I'm Being Oppressed0 -
my winter bike was my first mtb and it still has biopace chainrings on it!
there was a phase of 650 wheels for triathlonregards,
dbb0 -
Procycling did a bike comparison test recenlty between a current Lapierre bike and a 1980s Pinarello. They did a hill climb test with a group of elite French amateurs as the test riders, the Lapierre was faster every time due to it being lighter and stiffer. Many of the riders were particularly shocked at how the Pinarello handled on descents, saying you had to wrestle it around corners.
Maybe, just maybe, most of the innovations have led to better bikes?
Just a thought.0 -
The Camelback Bottle is good. My wife has it in the car all day and its the only bottle that wont spill out all over the seats.
Dunno about on the bikes though- never really been an issue.0 -
Someone uploaded that Procycling article here, if anybody wants to read it:
http://www.fredericgrappe.com/media/rev ... ipvelo.pdf
Digested, digested: "Some people ride two bikes up a hill in about the same time".0 -
The Camelback Bottle is good. My wife has it in the car all day and its the only bottle that wont spill out all over the seats.
You could apply that to a Thermos as well, but both are equally pointless on a bike where the bottles stand upright.Maybe, just maybe, most of the innovations have led to better bikes?
With a few exceptions e.g. STI/Egos & clipless, most improvements are not what I call innovations but instead gradual improvements gained by taking the tried and tested ideas and then using the latest modern materials. At the end of the day a 1960's road bike looks very similar to a 2009 bike, unlike a 1980's mtb which looks quite different from a 2009 mtb.0 -
Ref electronic shifting:
If Shimano make the system work in such a way that you can have buttons wherever you want - so you can shift comfortably from hoods, tops and drops - and also release a compatible version of Alfine etc, then I think it will have a useful application.
Useless innovations? Bladed spokes.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
Bladed spokes look very pimp, that is enough justification!
Curvy stays and forks originated on the track i think, frames weren't allowed to have manufacturing marks, so framemakers used lugwork and curves so everyone knew who was riding them!0 -
clipless pedals are a great innovations
as was SIS shifting and STI levers
and more recently compact chainset
all have had a significant improvement on the performance and enjoyment of my cycling..
it could be argued that all are incremental improvements - and let's remember that the diamond frame has been around for about 100 years!regards,
dbb0 -
helmets are a useless invention.
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andyp wrote:Procycling did a bike comparison test recenlty between a current Lapierre bike and a 1980s Pinarello. They did a hill climb test with a group of elite French amateurs as the test riders, the Lapierre was faster every time due to it being lighter and stiffer. Many of the riders were particularly shocked at how the Pinarello handled on descents, saying you had to wrestle it around corners.
Maybe, just maybe, most of the innovations have led to better bikes?
Just a thought.
I don't think anyone is arguing that innovation is bad. Many cycling inventions are improvements. It's sorting the real useful product from the marketing chaff that's harder.0 -
ride_whenever wrote:Bladed spokes look very pimp, that is enough justification!
Lol, not denying that, I have a wheelset with them myself!- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0
